Post-Game Talk: Game 8 : Anaheim Ducks @ Philadelphia Flyers - 10am PT (yes, 10am), BSSC

[Mr Rogers]

Terry went from 0.89PPG in ’21-22 to 0.87PPG in ‘22-23. Assists went from 0.40 to 0.54 APG. He was responsible for the same amount of production, just swapped his goals for assists. Saying he wasn’t using his teammates is an odd thing to say when he led the team in assists per game, and also the entire team in PPG. His overall production went down because he missed games, not because he was a worse player.

You could even argue he was significantly better last year when you consider how much worse the team was overall. Essentially maintaining ppg on a much worse team is impressive.

 

[mightyquack]

Honestly one of the worst performances we've had so far, but Dostal made key saves early and the offense just exploded. We were very sloppy and soft defensively.

On a side note Flyers deserve to suck purely for their horrid goal song. Can't believe I had to listen to that four times

 

[Kalv]

Vatrano going for the 82 goal season. Move over, Matthews

 

[Leonardo87]

Have not had much time to comment on the game itself, maybe I did and just forgot I posted it, not re-reading 700 posts hey nice to see the GDT’s getting around 700-800, let’s try and hit 1k next game.

Anyway, Ducks toughness is not an issue, Johnston needs to be in the line up, I’m fine scratching someone like Groulx, Jones or Silf. That Des fight was a reminder of what we were missing . I know @Dirk316 approves.

As long as we are not effecting the skill of the Top 9. Need to role 3 scoring lines, and Killorn returning is really going to help there.

This game was sloppy I loved that we scored 7 goals and Z got that Monkey or @Ducks DVM would say chimpanzee off his back with the goal, hopefully the flood gates open for him. Hated that we gave up 4 goals. If this was a 7-2 game would have been more than fine. Those last two goals irked me because just because you have a nice cushion lead can’t piss it away

We are at .500 and had one of the toughest schedules but still a lot of work to do and need to build off this. Next game will be tough.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

@FiveHoleTickler 's brother spoiled this one for me but I rewatched most of it anyway and in a way it was kind of a repeat of the Boston game, frustrating win. Mitigated by us having a huge lead for most of the game, so much more fun.

It's hard for me to tell if it's Mac or Strome driving that second (1st) line. Strome's been making great plays all on his own lately, a lot of them away from the puck. Z was everywhere, including in a scrum, so good for him. Loved watching Cam pull off that beautiful entry and pass to Frank because it set up the goal but ALSO set up people having to eat all the shit I knew they said about him up to that point. So here's a belated "suck it haters!"

 

[DavidBL]

I just thought about this but did we have a 3 game with streak all of last year?

 

[Leonardo87]

I just thought about this but did we have a 3 game with streak all of last year?

I don’t think so, but I know we already have two regulation wins, and it took them till the end of Nov to get their 1st one.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Have not had much time to comment on the game itself, maybe I did and just forgot I posted it, not re-reading 700 posts hey nice to see the GDT’s getting around 700-800, let’s try and hit 1k next game.

Anyway, Ducks toughness is not an issue, Johnston needs to be in the line up, I’m fine scratching someone like Groulx, Jones or Silf. That Des fight was a reminder of what we were missing . I know @Dirk316 approves.

As long as we are not effecting the skill of the Top 9. Need to role 3 scoring lines, and Killorn returning is really going to help there.

This game was sloppy I loved that we scored 7 goals and Z got that Monkey or @Ducks DVM would say chimpanzee off his back with the goal, hopefully the flood gates open for him. Hated that we gave up 4 goals. If this was a 7-2 game would have been more than fine. Those last two goals irked me because just because you have a nice cushion lead can’t piss it away

We are at .500 and had one of the toughest schedules but still a lot of work to do and need to build off this. Next game will be tough.

I hated giving up the last 2 goals also….
However it’s always best to have teachable lessons in winning games. Best of both worlds

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I don’t think so, but I know we already have two regulation wins, and it took them till the end of Nov to get their 1st one.

We did though, twice. Didn't matter.

 

[JohnnyDrama]

Is there a mistake in the standings? Why is Minnesota ahead of us with 1 less win?

 

[Ducks DVM]

Is there a mistake in the standings? Why is Minnesota ahead of us with 1 less win?

1 more regulation win.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Literally everything we hear about Z is like this. He's coachable and good-natured about everything.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Terry went from 0.89PPG in ’21-22 to 0.87PPG in ‘22-23. Assists went from 0.40 to 0.54 APG. He was responsible for the same amount of production, just swapped his goals for assists. Saying he wasn’t using his teammates is an odd thing to say when he led the team in assists per game, and also the entire team in PPG. His overall production went down because he missed games, not because he was a worse player.

The play on the ice between '21-22 and '22-present are different versions of Terry. Or are you saying Terry is the same player since '21-22 because he's producing similarly and we omit his goal production vastly dropped?

Terry is 4th in scoring this season with 2g + 3a in 8 games. Yet, we all are in agreement Terry is having a difficult season. We are using qualitative argument (stats and on-ice performance) over quantitative argument (stats only). Yet, how can you or anyone else say this, but not apply it to last year? It makes no sense. Terry didn't take a step forward last year nor maintained his high goal scoring prowess, but regressed.

Conversely, before the Philly game, Z had only one point. Statistically, one can say Z is having a terrible start of the season. Yet, when we watch Z, he's doing all the right things for the team and himself that the points will eventually come. Qualitatively, we like Z's game over Terry despite the lack of production.

Anaheim was the 2nd worst goal scoring team last year and Terry is part of the blame, going from 37 goals to 23 goals. Terry's game changed to where he's not involving his teammates often, but still manages to earn assists.

Again, if posters are saying Terry is struggling this year, but don't want to accept he was struggling with the same deficiencies last year, then that's inconsistent logic when someone is sharing those struggles occurred last year too. And if you're saying Terry's points productions are very similar between '21-22 and '22-23 to present, then I guess there shouldn't be any complaint about his game nor about separating him from other players b/c Terry is so helpful because look at all the assists last year and continuing this year.

Terry w/o Carlsson: 4 games, 1 assist, and -2 rating
Terry w/ Carlsson: 4 games, 2g + 2a, and +2 rating

It takes a potential franchise 1C in Carlsson to drag Terry up.

 

[Ducks DVM]

The play on the ice between '21-22 and '22-present are different versions of Terry. Or are you saying Terry is the same player since '21-22 because he's producing similarly and we omit his goal production vastly dropped?

Terry is 4th in scoring this season with 2g + 3a in 8 games. Yet, we all are in agreement Terry is having a difficult season. We are using qualitative argument (stats and on-ice performance) over quantitative argument (stats only). Yet, how can you or anyone else say this, but not apply it to last year? It makes no sense. Terry didn't take a step forward last year nor maintained his high goal scoring prowess, but regressed.

Conversely, before the Philly game, Z had only one point. Statistically, one can say Z is having a terrible start of the season. Yet, when we watch Z, he's doing all the right things for the team and himself that the points will eventually come. Qualitatively, we like Z's game over Terry despite the lack of production.

Anaheim was the 2nd worst goal scoring team last year and Terry is part of the blame, going from 37 goals to 23 goals. Terry's game changed to where he's not involving his teammates often, but still manages to earn assists.

Again, if posters are saying Terry is struggling this year, but don't want to accept he was struggling with the same deficiencies last year, then that's inconsistent logic when someone is sharing those struggles occurred last year too. And if you're saying Terry's points productions are very similar between '21-22 and '22-23 to present, then I guess there shouldn't be any complaint about his game nor about separating him from other players b/c Terry is so helpful because look at all the assists last year and continuing this year.

Terry w/o Carlsson: 4 games, 1 assist, and -2 rating
Terry w/ Carlsson: 4 games, 2g + 2a, and +2 rating

It takes a potential franchise 1C in Carlsson to drag Terry up.

Nobody is arguing that he’s not struggling to score goals. The argument is that he spent all last year not using his teammates, which is not accurate, based on his team leading assist abilities, and by multiple GDT posts by multiple people mentioning how he was finding ways to be productive when he was unable to replicate his goal scoring touch the year before.

There‘s also a massive difference in his play that started when his wife’s pregnancy issues started, which I think we can all understand. People are extrapolating his play during that time period to all of last year, and it’s simply not accurate.

Likewise, people see him puck hog once this year, and extrapolate that out to he’s doing it the entire game, which he’s not. How many points should he have if Zegras could actually hit the net? He needs Carlsson because absolutely nobody else on that line is productive. Fancy expected goals for stats mean Jack all in the wins column if you can’t put the puck on the net.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Nobody is arguing that he’s not struggling to score goals. The argument is that he spent all last year not using his teammates, which is not accurate, based on his team leading assist abilities, and by multiple GDT posts by multiple people mentioning how he was finding ways to be productive when he was unable to replicate his goal scoring touch the year before.

There‘s also a massive difference in his play that started when his wife’s pregnancy issues started, which I think we can all understand. People are extrapolating his play during that time period to all of last year, and it’s simply not accurate.

Likewise, people see him puck hog once this year, and extrapolate that out to he’s doing it the entire game, which he’s not. How many points should he have if Zegras could actually hit the net? He needs Carlsson because absolutely nobody else on that line is productive. Fancy expected goals for stats mean Jack all in the wins column if you can’t put the puck on the net.

Stating the "all or nothing" argument is disingenuous. We aren't talking about Comtois here, but we are talking about Terry.

21-22: 37g + 30a
22-23: 23g + 38a

Why did the goal scoring production drastically change? Rather than entertain this though, you avoid it or do what others do: focus on overall scoring production rate and ignore the drop in goal scoring.

I'll reiterate for the millionth time, current Terry isn't '21-22 Terry. His game has changed drastically to where his goal scoring dropped. Why did it drop? Because Terry became more "puck hero" or puck hog, which made it easier for opponents to defend so he can't score more goals. Also, it made it difficult to get good chemistry: Mac last year and Z this year.

This year, the Mac line is scoring in bunches because they're more willing to pass the puck around more.

Terry w/o Carlsson: 4 games, 1 assist, and -2 rating
Terry w/ Carlsson: 4 games, 2g + 2a, and +2 rating

Carlsson is forcing his game style onto Terry.

Can having a new baby affect Terry? Sure. Yet, why is there a significant discrepancy when he plays with Carlsson? Carlsson is forcing his game style onto Terry.

 

[Deuce22]

Many missed the fact that Terry's shooting percentage in 21-22 was a crazy high 19.3%. That isn't sustainable and the fact that his goals went down last year was predictable. I agree with @Hockey Duckie that he hasn't been good this season. Way too much time with the puck on his stick trying to make plays that aren't going to be made. I don't like him and Z on the same line.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Stating the "all or nothing" argument is disingenuous. We aren't talking about Comtois here, but we are talking about Terry.

21-22: 37g + 30a
22-23: 23g + 38a

Why did the goal scoring production drastically change? Rather than entertain this though, you avoid it or do what others do: focus on overall scoring production rate and ignore the drop in goal scoring.

I'll reiterate for the millionth time, current Terry isn't '21-22 Terry. His game has changed drastically to where his goal scoring dropped. Why did it drop? Because Terry became more "puck hero" or puck hog, which made it easier for opponents to defend so he can't score more goals. Also, it made it difficult to get good chemistry: Mac last year and Z this year.

This year, the Mac line is scoring in bunches because they're more willing to pass the puck around more.

Terry w/o Carlsson: 4 games, 1 assist, and -2 rating
Terry w/ Carlsson: 4 games, 2g + 2a, and +2 rating

Carlsson is forcing his game style onto Terry.

Can having a new baby affect Terry? Sure. Yet, why is there a significant discrepancy when he plays with Carlsson? Carlsson is forcing his game style onto Terry.

This is absolutely a causation vs correlation issue.

Let’s look at Terry’s points this season.

Game 2 vs Carolina - 1 goal. Carlsson did not play, absolutely not forcing his game style on Terry.

Game 3 vs Dallas - 1 goal, 1 assist. The goal occurred when Terry set a goalie screen for about 10 seconds, then drifted out to the left and put in a Mintyukov rebound. Zero Carlsson effect. The assist was to Carlsson, where Terry drew the defender to him on a 2v1, then passed it to Carlsson. This is a standard play, and he routinely serves up a pass on 2v1’s, absolutely not a Carlsson effect.

Game 7 vs Boston - 1 goal, 1 assist, both with the goaltender pulled. Assist was from floating around the left post for about 10 seconds, going to the net when a shot was taken from the right point, shot blocked by goalie, Terry got the puck to Carlsson who scored. This is basic PP, not Carlsson forcing his game style onto Terry. The goal was, again, Terry (after making a nice puck recovery) hanging out at the left circle for a while, receiving the puck when it cycled back across to him, then walking it in, making his shot and scoring. Zilch Carlsson effect.

Stats lie. Carlsson was involved in two of those goals, but he had zero effect on Terry making some behavioral/playing style change to get them. As previously stated, if Zegras could hit the net, Terry would have quite a few more assists. Does that mean he isn’t puck hogging too much? Absolutely not. But his points have nothing to do with what Carlsson is doing, the points aren’t coming from him playing off Carlsson in a single standard play situation. They’re coming from Terry making plays from where he goes in those circumstances.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Terry reached levels of play last year where he was literally better than anything he did during his breakout year. That his performance last year is somehow viewed as a regression from 21-22 is absurd.

 

[anezthes]

...if Zegras could hit the net, Terry would have quite a few more assists...

If Terry/Carlsson/Henrique could hit the net, Zegras would have quite a few more assists.