GDT: Game 30 - Coyotes @ Hawks - 6 PM WGN

[BobbyJet]

The Toews line botches a 3 on with an empty net...do not praise the unselfish pas up the shot attitude to set up a linemates ..Tiews needs goals...Saad needs goals. instead Saad defers to Tiews who defer s to D-Cat ..who fumbles tge chance...awful.. Keystone Cops stuff. SHOOT TGE puck first chance at but. ..Saad who needs to get going. .should have shot it in...period..no argument ..Deserves a fine for trying to set one up instead in that situation. .shouldered the en goal when it presents...delay g for set-up usually results in something going wrong..awful it did..


Meanwhile. ..Kane plays like poop entire game except for last 2 shifts..flips his switch..2 points to 0ad his stats after can awful effort in this game.He flips the switch from skating in cement to full hustle on 2 shifts in ladt few minutes and voila ..2 scores result ..So we know there was nothing wrong with him.physucally..he just refused to hustle and compete for 55 minutes of the game and only in lay few shifts did he return from tge dead. .A coach should not tolerate lazy play and disinterest for 55 minutes only to flip a swych on in ladt monutes.Sure better than nothing...but this kind of mail g it in for so long in a game to 9nly exert for 2 shifts very late in tge game is preposterous ..A coach who let's thud happen should be fired there is no reason Kane should pkay this way..waiting for a few minutes pnly to flip a switch.. Clearly Kane can star when he wants to..but he gets away with being off misdion far to much recently ..Q has to crack tgecwhipnon him. No excuse for the Jekyll and Hyde performances ...exerts only when he wants to pad his stats for acne shifts . Rhen has done his "work" for tge $10.5 ...I hate this kind of flip the switch for 5 /60 ....It stinks.

Actually our best player tonight was Vinny. ..Tried hardcalmos5 every shift ..Was dangerous in cresting some chances. LOVED the speed and hustle ..Still was on forvthevseason lone Yotes goal but not his fault ..It was just a nice hard work pkay by tge Yotes to win a puck race against Forsling and get bit tobthe crease where Duclair won a battle with Rutta and beat Crawford. .nice gard work goal by the Yotes..Nothing Vinny could have. Done there. BUT the speedd and hustle Vinny showed ...andc5akingbpucjs right up the midfle onto theb9-zone or chasing to forecheck no the o-zone ...well you wonder if a speed lin with him and Schmaltz might not give teans fits.But Q is too stupid to try speed energy and uptempo on a line going Nirth-South and creating 2 on 1 rushes etc. IT should be what we need to energize tge sad sack cement skater vets of tge Core ..Maybe if they witness exam0pes of hustle and pace they will be inspired to up their hustle and pace. But alas Q is way too stupid to realize this . PUT Schmaltz and Hino on same line..watch defenses get caught on lots of 2 on 1s if they dare pinch ..IT will open things up..create dangerous transitions. From our zone .but nope Q will stick with his slow East West stuff in tge core lines and his reliable 4th line to win games. AND he will hope Kane keeps flipping the switch more often to prove him right.

Agree 100 percent about the Kane comments. It's one of the main reasons that Q has got to go. He has pampered the veterans for so long; they all know they can play country club hockey and still expect to be in their usual spot the next shift, the next game or the next 10 games. Kane's lackadaisical play is worse than ever this season.... but we'll always get those who point to his stats and say everything is fine. It isn't fine by any stretch, and it hasn't been for a while.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

The proof is that the new players are the ones playing well. They haven't been Q'd.

The proof is that Kane, Saad, Toews, Keith and Seabrook have been crap.

Come out against AZ at home like that?%@#

Need more proof?

 

[featherhawk]

Define "a very long time ago," please. Many considered the 2016-17 regular season to be Q's best given the turnover that the roster had. If your definition was some point last season or earlier, I point to that as proof against. If you mean in the final week of the season and/or postseason, what does the sudden dropoff tell you? That either Q somehow catastrophically lost the room or that there was some other issue at play? If you ask me, the notion that an organization with the pedigree of the Hawks' core somehow lost confidence in their coach at all once speaks more volumes about the on-ice leadership than anything else, though I obviously recognize that at a certain point a shock to the system is needed and moving one coach versus a load of players is far easier and usually wiser.

That being said, while a lot of line decisions have been very questionable, this offseason featured even more turnover and this season has seen a bunch of core guys falling off a cliff. At a certain point, just blaming Q is kind of ignoring the player's problems, and saying that retaining Q is proof that the Hawks are throwing in the towel is total and complete nonsense, even if you do believe that fresh blood is needed.

I believe it was shortly after hinostroza was sent down late last season before the playoffs when they went from having a stellar season to absolutely shitting the bed for the remainder of the season and the playoffs.

It's not just questionable lines it's way more than that. How about dressing 7 every game when he sucks and a much much better option is in the press box.

Also the core does not just fall of the cliff at the same time, that's impossible and can only leave one other possibility, that is they are not buying what q is saying and thus not playing to the best of there abilities for him. Should the leadership take some responsibility, sure and that is why I think they should change the "c" to an "a" on 19's Jersey

 

[Hawkaholic]

People really think a new coach is going to come in, bench Patrick freaking Kane, and wake him up to play hockey for 60mins every game, including a regular season game in December at home vs. Arizona? Can I have what some of you are smoking?

 

[sugoi88]

Everyone relies on Kane to score. So what if he did this season at the same pace we all know he is capable of? Where did that get the Hawks the past 2 seasons? Kane is more than capable of doing more. But if he did it would be to the detriment of developing Debrincat, Schmaltz, Hayden (the 4th line), etc. I am fine with Kane having a sub-par year. Do you think he likes it? I highly doubt it. Let the kids learn to play, and score goals. They need another scoring threat. Defenses focus on Kane. Let defenses also worry about other scoring threats. Only problem is the 1st line has fallen apart.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

People really think a new coach is going to come in, bench Patrick freaking Kane, and wake him up to play hockey for 60mins every game, including a regular season game in December at home vs. Arizona? Can I have what some of you are smoking?

Except for the benching, yes.

 

[Robsker]

I believe it was shortly after hinostroza was sent down late last season before the playoffs when they went from having a stellar season to absolutely ****ting the bed for the remainder of the season and the playoffs.

It's not just questionable lines it's way more than that. How about dressing 7 every game when he sucks and a much much better option is in the press box.

Also the core does not just fall of the cliff at the same time, that's impossible and can only leave one other possibility, that is they are not buying what q is saying and thus not playing to the best of there abilities for him. Should the leadership take some responsibility, sure and that is why I think they should change the "c" to an "a" on 19's Jersey

saying that "Also the core does not just fall of the cliff at the same time, that's impossible and can only leave one other possibility, that is they are not buying what q is saying and thus not playing to the best of there abilities for him' is some seriously dubious logic. Toews fell off the cliff 2 years ago. Seabs did in approximately the same time. Duncs has fallen down and cannot get up just now --- long after the dropoff for Toews and Seabs. All are battle worn vets. They did not fall off the cliff at the same time. They shared a common prime with one another and the three fell off the cliff so to speak over a 2+ year period --- not at the same time or to the same degree (or at the same rate). What we have seen in these three vets is exactly what one would expect.

Again, there is no evidence that is compelling for a locker room problem centering upon Q that has these vets playing at a fraction of their former selves. These three --- Toews, Seabs and Duncs are like cars with 250,ooo miles on them --- they do not perform like they used to and should not be expected to --- but we are still making payments on those cars.

Blaming Q for the natural falloff of these vets is not reasonable. Blaming him for some poor roster management --- yes. But Q cannot be blamed for the play of these guys.

 

[LDF]

saying that "Also the core does not just fall of the cliff at the same time, that's impossible and can only leave one other possibility, that is they are not buying what q is saying and thus not playing to the best of there abilities for him' is some seriously dubious logic. Toews fell off the cliff 2 years ago. Seabs did in approximately the same time. Duncs has fallen down and cannot get up just now --- long after the dropoff for Toews and Seabs. All are battle worn vets. They did not fall off the cliff at the same time. They shared a common prime with one another and the three fell off the cliff so to speak over a 2+ year period --- not at the same time or to the same degree (or at the same rate). What we have seen in these three vets is exactly what one would expect.

Again, there is no evidence that is compelling for a locker room problem centering upon Q that has these vets playing at a fraction of their former selves. These three --- Toews, Seabs and Duncs are like cars with 250,ooo miles on them --- they do not perform like they used to and should not be expected to --- but we are still making payments on those cars.

Blaming Q for the natural falloff of these vets is not reasonable. Blaming him for some poor roster management --- yes. But Q cannot be blamed for the play of these guys.

and now you come into my territory..... blaming the FO for this predicament.

 

[Robsker]

and now you come into my territory..... blaming the FO for this predicament.

No.... I do not blame the front office either.

No blame is to be affixed at all.

This is the natural ebb & flow of team competitiveness in the Cap era. A great core wins a bank of Cups and those players are compensated for that production. the core ages, their play diminishes, the resulting Cap situation causes many on the team to leave (for lack of ability to pay them) and lesser, cheaper, depth players are relied upon and soon --- the top team fades just as the system is designed to ensure. The Cap system over a 4-5 year period ensures that the top teams rotate in and out and that parity is achieved. it is good for the league and is a good system and works. the hawks have cycled out and will need a while to cycle back in. The penguins will cycle out soon as well. maybe it will be the Bolts who cycle into the top for a time and then they too will cycle out.

No team in the Cap era can run roughshod over the league for overly long --- the Hawks had their run from 2010-2015 and have since been cycled out and will now begin the process to hopefully cycle back in in a few years.

I do not think the FO has done a bad job at all. overall, the FO has done very well. Q has some issues and i would like to see him leave and be replaced --- a great coach who had an amazing run and for whom i am thankful was here. But his time has come and a new modern coach with a hunger and more of a notion for a speed game needs to come in. But Q has been overall great as well. No blame is to be affixed anywhere. The hawks have been amazing and have navigated the Cap system about as well as anyone could expect.

 

[Blue Liner]

No.... I do not blame the front office either.

No blame is to be affixed at all.

This is the natural ebb & flow of team competitiveness in the Cap era. A great core wins a bank of Cups and those players are compensated for that production. the core ages, their play diminishes, the resulting Cap situation causes many on the team to leave (for lack of ability to pay them) and lesser, cheaper, depth players are relied upon and soon --- the top team fades just as the system is designed to ensure. The Cap system over a 4-5 year period ensures that the top teams rotate in and out and that parity is achieved. it is good for the league and is a good system and works. the hawks have cycled out and will need a while to cycle back in. The penguins will cycle out soon as well. maybe it will be the Bolts who cycle into the top for a time and then they too will cycle out.

No team in the Cap era can run roughshod over the league for overly long --- the Hawks had their run from 2010-2015 and have since been cycled out and will now begin the process to hopefully cycle back in in a few years.

I do not think the FO has done a bad job at all. overall, the FO has done very well. Q has some issues and i would like to see him leave and be replaced --- a great coach who had an amazing run and for whom i am thankful was here. But his time has come and a new modern coach with a hunger and more of a notion for a speed game needs to come in. But Q has been overall great as well. No blame is to be affixed anywhere. The hawks have been amazing and have navigated the Cap system about as well as anyone could expect.

Holy shit. What is this reasonable, grounded nonsense of a post? We don't want this level-headed shit up in here. *hands you a lit torch* Come on, man!

 

[Robsker]

and now you come into my territory..... blaming the FO for this predicament.

oh... and there is no predicament. Unabated, continual excellence in an amazingly competitive league is not a reasonable expectation. The Hawks are in the natural arc away from being at the top. that is not a predicament. it is just the natural process within the league in the Cap era.

It is in periods like now --- and likely the next few years --- that we will appreciate all the more the beauty of the 2010-2015 era. And we watch as the next team to hopefully ascend is developed. During those development years -- like this one --- do not expect much! Having watched the Hawks for 50 years has taught me to appreciate how difficult NHL continuity of excellence is.

All we are dealing with here is unrealistic expectations not being met and posters complaining because their unrealistic expectations are not met.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Except for the benching, yes.

Yes, Patrick Kane will suddenly start playing full games without taking a shift off, something he has never done in his career, including JRs.

 

[LDF]

oh... and there is no predicament. Unabated, continual excellence in an amazingly competitive league is not a reasonable expectation. The Hawks are in the natural arc away from being at the top. that is not a predicament. it is just the natural process within the league in the Cap era.

It is in periods like now --- and likely the next few years --- that we will appreciate all the more the beauty of the 2010-2015 era. And we watch as the next team to hopefully ascend is developed. During those development years -- like this one --- do not expect much! Having watched the Hawks for 50 years has taught me to appreciate how difficult NHL continuity of excellence is.

All we are dealing with here is unrealistic expectations not being met and posters complaining because their unrealistic expectations are not met.

the natural process of cap era, really, it was the cap era that made SB give Seabs a huge untradable contract. the screw up of Bickell trade and the prospects traded to fix the cap. it doesn't matter how those prospects developed or not, it was trading the prospects and not really replenishing the system. oh and i believe the hawks didn't want it replenish, b/c of loosing key prospects in the expansion draft. btw it is HIS JOB, SB, TO HAVE ALL THIS FIGURE THIS OUT.

the era of the SC, yes it was a beaut but how long do they not fix the team ...... this team should have been a subtle retool, but wait, i forgot, Seabs contract ruin that.

unrealistic expectation, c'mon, that is a huge weak defense on a argument that you were once spouting. that is wasn't Q fault..... yeah if it is not his fault then it is the GM fault for not continuing to fix this team.

 

[LDF]

Yes, Patrick Kane will suddenly start playing full games without taking a shift off, something he has never done in his career, including JRs.

i have been waiting for someone to go there.

i blame the idea of Kane and his off season workout.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I just still find the notion that this team will do a 180 merely because of a coaching change to be pretty laughable. The vets have a pedigree to make one think that they should be motivated regardless of other factors and the rookies have mostly looked like they're busting their butts physically or making some mental errors that need to be ironed out with experience on the big level, neither of which I think can be pointed out as on Q. Line decisions obviously could be more ideal, and that you can point at Q, but you can't just blame Q for Toews having issues (that being said, he still is #3 in points on the team), Keith getting older, Seabrook needing sheltered minutes, Hossa being gone, and Kane not being as productive as we'd hope he would be.

Maybe new blood is needed, and as we all know all coaches have a shelf life, but the idea that the Hawks w/ Q = doomed but the Hawks w/ almost anyone else = contenders again just seems like a grass is greener on the other side mentality.

And to be frank, has anyone honestly heard about any player issue with Q? We tend to hear at least rumors allegedly claiming one thing or another that are impossible to prove or disprove, but we haven't really heard anything about players suddenly not liking Q en masse as one would expect if he truly lost the room. That's always just been fan speculation based on no real evidence other than a hope that there's an explanation for why the team **** the bed against the Preds or why they're so disjointed at times this season.

 

[hawksfan50]

Interesting that today's practice was reportedly tough hard 2 on battles...I guess Q not satisfied with 5 hood minutes out of 60 even though we pulled out a victory..Tge Kane line which saved tge day was particularly awful in its own zone in their shifts during the 55 minutes prior to waking up ..So Q trying to light some better Co. Pete especialky frpm his top 2 lines ..

Still ...interesting he goes tge battle route emphasis rather than ...you know...things like passing and shooting accuracy ...guess he does not care tgey keep missing open nets or botch a 3 on with the goalie out ...Things Jinior B pkayer's coukd do better to ...you know ..."finish"...but why practice these "little things" ...Q would be happier if tgey just won the wall battles and puck race battles more....cut tge shots on CC sown to low 20s amd eke out 2-1 or 3-1 wins ...heaven foid tgey should ever score on the pp. .and on more not-south rushes with speed and shot finish...nope...that kind of show is not going to happen under Q...cycle it around ..win possession battles ...up the compete ...and nd grind out tge wins. . He wants then 8n more urgent compete mode for playoffs. ..course of they do not get enough offense seems especialky against better teans the will not be in playoffs. .if the pp keeps not working ,tgey won't be in playoffs but Q will make sure tgey are the most playoff ready non-pkayoff team possible ..Hence tge battle drills he uses to waste time in practices and the. Al ost no time spent on improving shot accuracy and getting 0asses to land on the tape of teammates. HOCEY is an easier game..if you score a lit. .but Q cannot bother to fix that problem..So hard battle drills in practices..still lose battles in real games..cause that is our players way ..and a pkp-gun offense ..Seems to me a new head coach woukd first make sure his guys knew how to shoot and pass well before getting to battle. Drills. But Q gonba Q..

 

[LordKOTL]

I agree that with Q vs. without Q may not result in the difference between being in the 1st overall sweepstakes and making a very deep playoff run, but then again what is isn't working overall.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

That's fair, and I'll admit that I don't know that the easy fix is, if there even is one. I said it in the offseason, and I'll say it again.... Q's job depends on what we do this postseason. If we get bounced in the first round yet again, or if we don't make the playoffs, I'm 100% expecting a coaching change in the next offseason. If we get to the second round or beyond, I think he's safe for at least another year.

For a midseason firing, I think that the Hawks would have to go on a truly horrid run and for the Hawks to be far out of the playoffs for that to happen. And even then, I'd almost think that the Hawks would just give up on this season if that turned out to be the case, give Q the rest of the season in appreciation of all he's done for the team, and more importantly not rock the boat when a lottery position was in play rather than hit the reset midseason. If all's lost, why hope for the hypothetical improvement and get a worse draft pick in an otherwise lost season?

And regarding that, we're not remotely there yet. Hawks are tied for the 2nd Wild Card (granted with the Wild having a game in hand) and are one point behind on the 1st Wild Card. For how miserable we've looked at times, we're still right in this thing.

 

[Putt Pirate]

I really don't think we are nearly as bad as we have been playing. With the roster what it is.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Yes, Patrick Kane will suddenly start playing full games without taking a shift off, something he has never done in his career, including JRs.

How about he takes off less shifts than he does now, which is more than he has ever taken off? How about that?

 

[LDF]

That's fair, and I'll admit that I don't know that the easy fix is, if there even is one. I said it in the offseason, and I'll say it again.... Q's job depends on what we do this postseason. If we get bounced in the first round yet again, or if we don't make the playoffs, I'm 100% expecting a coaching change in the next offseason. If we get to the second round or beyond, I think he's safe for at least another year.

For a midseason firing, I think that the Hawks would have to go on a truly horrid run and for the Hawks to be far out of the playoffs for that to happen. And even then, I'd almost think that the Hawks would just give up on this season if that turned out to be the case, give Q the rest of the season in appreciation of all he's done for the team, and more importantly not rock the boat when a lottery position was in play rather than hit the reset midseason. If all's lost, why hope for the hypothetical improvement and get a worse draft pick in an otherwise lost season?

And regarding that, we're not remotely there yet. Hawks are tied for the 2nd Wild Card (granted with the Wild having a game in hand) and are one point behind on the 1st Wild Card. For how miserable we've looked at times, we're still right in this thing.

for me, i would rather have the team make the run at the playoff, even if it is as a wild-card team.

but if the Bhawks were to miss the playoff. i see some key offensive kind of a player that can play extremely well with D-cat and think about it, both being really young.

 

[BobbyJet]

Interesting that today's practice was reportedly tough hard 2 on battles...I guess Q not satisfied with 5 hood minutes out of 60 even though we pulled out a victory..Tge Kane line which saved tge day was particularly awful in its own zone in their shifts during the 55 minutes prior to waking up ..So Q trying to light some better Co. Pete especialky frpm his top 2 lines ..

Still ...interesting he goes tge battle route emphasis rather than ...you know...things like passing and shooting accuracy ...guess he does not care tgey keep missing open nets or botch a 3 on with the goalie out ...Things Jinior B pkayer's coukd do better to ...you know ..."finish"...but why practice these "little things" ...Q would be happier if tgey just won the wall battles and puck race battles more....cut tge shots on CC sown to low 20s amd eke out 2-1 or 3-1 wins ...heaven foid tgey should ever score on the pp. .and on more not-south rushes with speed and shot finish...nope...that kind of show is not going to happen under Q...cycle it around ..win possession battles ...up the compete ...and nd grind out tge wins. . He wants then 8n more urgent compete mode for playoffs. ..course of they do not get enough offense seems especialky against better teans the will not be in playoffs. .if the pp keeps not working ,tgey won't be in playoffs but Q will make sure tgey are the most playoff ready non-pkayoff team possible ..Hence tge battle drills he uses to waste time in practices and the. Al ost no time spent on improving shot accuracy and getting 0asses to land on the tape of teammates. HOCEY is an easier game..if you score a lit. .but Q cannot bother to fix that problem..So hard battle drills in practices..still lose battles in real games..cause that is our players way ..and a pkp-gun offense ..Seems to me a new head coach woukd first make sure his guys knew how to shoot and pass well before getting to battle. Drills. But Q gonba Q..

Yep. When you get skilled players who suddenly can't pass, can't shoot, can't finish, can't make the right decisions, there is more wrong than meets the eye. When virtually the entire team is afflicted, you hafta look elsewhere. And the elsewhere is the management and coaching.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I see Toews defenders starting to go after Kane

Kane unlike Toews even when struggling contributes to team and has been more then worth his deal since ink dried

I will take a half interested Kane over whatever the hell Toews has been for last 2+ years

 

[Robsker]

the natural process of cap era, really, it was the cap era that made SB give Seabs a huge untradable contract. the screw up of Bickell trade and the prospects traded to fix the cap. it doesn't matter how those prospects developed or not, it was trading the prospects and not really replenishing the system. oh and i believe the hawks didn't want it replenish, b/c of loosing key prospects in the expansion draft. btw it is HIS JOB, SB, TO HAVE ALL THIS FIGURE THIS OUT.

the era of the SC, yes it was a beaut but how long do they not fix the team ...... this team should have been a subtle retool, but wait, i forgot, Seabs contract ruin that.

unrealistic expectation, c'mon, that is a huge weak defense on a argument that you were once spouting. that is wasn't Q fault..... yeah if it is not his fault then it is the GM fault for not continuing to fix this team.

The team is being fixed as we are experiencing it this season. Forsling, Forsberg, Hartman, Hino, Rutta, Schmaltz, D-Cat and Hayden are all being developed. Boams and Osterle and Wingels were brought in on the cheap. All this to help compensate for the decline of the big $ guys. And in the Rock some good guys are being developed. Murphy was brought in too. Many moves of cheap guys under the radar are now here and are young and ere developing. The team is growing for the future from a roster perspective rather well given the Cap situation. The front Office and the coach is not responsible for the natural decline of the old core nor for the Cap limitations --- they can simply adapt and the FO has adapted quite well. it takes time. The coaching needs a change --- and I suspect that is forthcoming. The growth back is underway. In this transition year we watch and hope for the youth to really develop --- and maybe make the playoffs along the way.

 

[BobbyJet]

How about he takes off less shifts than he does now, which is more than he has ever taken off? How about that?

Yeah. It's hard to believe that some seem quite satisfied with certain players taking most shifts off. They'd likely be the first to scream murder when a bottom 6 player did the same.

I guess they don't understand what a cancer it can be. Q obviously doesn't get it.... or more likely he is helpless to fix it. But he created it.