Post-Game Talk: Game 3: Caps vs. Flyers

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Any official word on Orpik?

 

[strungout]

Any official word on Orpik?

We likely wont hear anything til after practice....if anything.

 

[strungout]

The issue isn't Chorney or Weber. Its can you win a Stanley Cup with Nate Schmidt getting top 4 minutes?

Absolutely.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

You know it's bad when Simmonds stood out as level headed and the voice of reason in all of this

I love Simmonds and would kill to have him in DC. Dude is a beast and a giant pain in the ass to play against, but he "gets it." Ryan White he is not.

Just finish these clowns on Wednesday and rest up for the Pens/Rongos.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

The 2nd line had one of the few good even-strength shifts for the Capitals in the 1st period. That gives me some optimism for Burt.

They also had a great double shift before the Ovi goal. 45 seconds of zone time, weak clear, 30 seconds of zone time.

They will be difference makers exactly when they need to be. Not worried at all.

 

[Devil Dancer]

Chorney gives the better chance for the sweep, play him and heal up.

 

[RandyHolt]

I just don't see the protection thing.

A guy like White doesn't mind Weber punching him. He's not going to change his behaviour because Weber or Wilson is going to hit him next shift. In fact he would relish it. He would be in his element.

You don't make it to the NHL as a goon if stuff like that is a deterrent.

I understand its the year 2016, and fighting is frowned upon. It used to get everyone out of their seats as much as goals did.

But "protection" is not just this magical thing that cannot be seen, teams still target and dress tough players to offset how other teams are built. I just go by what I see our front office doing.

A lot of times in the past, all the goons would dance early, and then the smoke would settle and the rest of the game was clean.

Maybe if Weber dressed last night, he intercepts the cavemen before he starts unloading on Bura. Bura was lucky the linesman saved him, and we are too. Weber wouldn't hesitate to take a 3rd man there, and it wouldn't hurt our team if he got suspended. The linesmen provided the protection that our lineup did not.

A lot of times, proper fighters locate each other in scrums, and leave the non fighters out of it. Maybe you haven't watched hock long enough to have seen this happen, but it (at least) used to be a thing. No one to dance with, guys like Bura unfortunately may pay. Yes, even in the year 2016.

 

[txpd]

Any official word on Orpik?

officially he has an upper body injury and will be reevaluated tomorrow(today). the usual non-statement.

The only thing that clears up is some people actually thought he hurt his knee

 

[ovikovy817]

Do you know if I can find somewhere the moment when Orlov and Orpik were hit with JoeB and Locker comments?
Because CSN-DC wasn't available on nhl.tv . I had to watch this game with Pierre.

 

[txpd]

Maybe if Weber dressed last night, he intercepts the cavemen before he starts unloading on Bura. Bura was lucky the linesman saved him, and we are too. Weber wouldn't hesitate to take a 3rd man there, and it wouldn't hurt our team if he got suspended..

not sure what you are getting at here. If Weber were playing the whole thing wouldn't have happened. He would have been dressed instead of Orlov and Bellemare would have just beat him to the puck. As it was Burt was on the outside of the pile. Weber would have already been in the middle of the pile. So....

Honestly in order to save Burt from the beatdown he would have had to be on the ice. Since Carlson was on the ice at the time, I am not sure how he would have been.

 

[4thTierSport]

I can not find any reasonable justification that a sane person could say that Wilson't Boarding should have been a major and turn around and say White and Bellemare shouldn't be getting suspended.

Orpik did not radically change his positioning. He was stretched out for the puck early enough that White could have easily made a play on just the puck or a hit that doesn't just plaster Orpik's head into the glass. How the **** does the NHL justify a Head Check Penalty on Orpik on G1 and a no call on that hit.

Oh then there is this beauty that didn't even draw a penalty:

 

[442]

The Burakovsky/Kuznetsov/Williams line is going to explode sooner than later. They're SO good at cycling and keeping the puck in the offensive zone - with all that skill, it's just a matter of time.

Once the games get tighter, I think that line will be much more impactful.

Scary thought is that Kuz and Bura can still put on more weight and more muscle. It reminds me of Backstrom early in his career, thin in terms of mass but strong on his skates, shields the puck well .... when he got bigger and stronger it became almost impossible to knock him off the puck.

 

[HecticGlow]

This is probably a stupid thought, but I wonder if it might be worth playing both Weber and Chorney and 'resting' one of the Ds we rely on more - like Carlson - if Orpik isn't returning. Carlson has probably been the single player so far who has, in my view, determined the outcome of this series - but the Flyers aren't about to win four straight. In the same way as last night was 'good practice' for our PP, it was also good practice for Orlov and Schmidt when Orpik left the ice. I think we could win the cup without Orpik, I'm less convinced we could win without Carlson. It just seems to me the risk of injury is only going to increase with every minute we play the Flyers now, who are desperate and/or reckless now. Playing Chorney and Weber ensures they get ice time, if nothing else, gives us more of a physical element to our game (but still fairly responsible D in Chorney) and guarantees no Carlson injury tomorrow.

At the very least, I don't want to see any player out there who's banged up unnecessarily playing. This is probably the series, more than any other we'll play, which Latta and Weber would actually be well suited to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be complacent assuming we're going to win the next one, especially with anyone important out. But there wasnt anything about the game last night (except, maybe, Carlson on the PP) that was better Caps play than games Chorney played in while Carlson and Orpik were out, or Latta played while Beags was out. I'd rather risk one game in a seven game series we're dominating and lower the risk of serious injury that would hinder us in the next series. Worst case scenario, you go back to the preferable lineu for a game 5 we'd almost certainly win. Thoughts?

 

[RandyHolt]

This is probably a stupid thought...

Outside the box thinking, I like it.

But Carlson with a red hot hand right now, Barry is likely afraid to do anything differently.

To your point, if there is a game to get someone a day off, this is definitely the one. I would think anyone injured is a candidate, but players know if they sit to heal, they run risk of never getting back into the game ever again. So they proclaim themselves good to go, no matter how screwed up they are.

I have long thought coaches have to see when a guy cannot give it a proper effort, and are hurting the team. Like Green vs the Pens, he couldn't shoot, yet Bruce had him out for the full 2 over and over again, and max TOI to boot. Ignoring Juice and Pots, who had both actually scored in that series, and had some PP experience.

 

[Langway]

The issue isn't Chorney or Weber. Its can you win a Stanley Cup with Nate Schmidt getting top 4 minutes?

I think it's more like: just how much TOI can 2/27/74 play before they begin to wear down? That's why I'd go with Chorney ultimately, although Weber probably will at least rotate in for this series. When Chorney is in rhythm he's the better option and more capable of playing more minutes. Particularly against a fast team, which they would face regardless next round, you want Chorney going back for pucks compared to Weber. Both Schmidt & Orlov have struggled in urgently and crisply playing pucks along the walls to start transition. They should be fresh but they must get better in that area.

I'd wild to think but this team could sweep without really playing their best hockey. Their passing and overall crispness needs to be better going forward and that in turn should help their possession numbers. They've had the 5-on-5 production edge thus far but that's a testament to their shutdown prowess and just how thin the Philadelphia lineup is overall. There will be no weaker supporting cast than what they're facing right now.

 

[Maruk moustache]

Yeah I don't see the illegality in the Orpik hit. Replayed it several times, but it always just looks like an accident to me.

I guess now's not the time to do the "Does anyone think we were better before Orpik came back" post that I had been planning for the last several days but kept not getting around to. It's probably not good to have less D to choose from in the playoffs, though, no matter what you think about Orpik, y'know, because if more get injured, then what.

Orlov hit was weird. Illegal, but did not seem intentional, not at all, although definitely reckless and very dangerous, given the weird position Orlov was in, all bending over while heading into the corner. I was feeling strange about the NBCSN heads' talk of a certain suspension coming out of it at first, but it was such a dangerous situation that yeah, after further thought, I guess they're probably right and he will get suspended.

 

[HecticGlow]

Outside the box thinking, I like it.

But Carlson with a red hot hand right now, Barry is likely afraid to do anything differently.

To your point, if there is a game to get someone a day off, this is definitely the one. I would think anyone injured is a candidate, but players know if they sit to heal, they run risk of never getting back into the game ever again. So they proclaim themselves good to go, no matter how screwed up they are.

I have long thought coaches have to see when a guy cannot give it a proper effort, and are hurting the team. Like Green vs the Pens, he couldn't shoot, yet Bruce had him out for the full 2 over and over again, and max TOI to boot. Ignoring Juice and Pots, who had both actually scored in that series, and had some PP experience.

At the very least I'd like to see a more even distribution of our D-men if we're ahead by more than one goal... At this point, who cares if Orlov has a crazy turnover or Schmidt's out of position, if increased ice time for Carlson, Alzner and Niskanen isn't essential?

I think the only reason to play the next game as though it's our only game is to try and clean up some aspects of it - like our 5v5 attempts, and outscoring the Flyerd again. The way the Flyers are falling apart, and the number of goals Mason giving up, it does make you wonder if the ES production issue has more to do with us than it does them.

 

[RandyHolt]

not sure what you are getting at here....

I think Weber would have been in over Schmidt, actually. And paired with Orlov. Regardless, my post was speculative.

About Schmidt, I am not sure he is ready for playoff prime time - Nates TOI this series 7, 13, 12 does not scream prime time. But he is presumed next up based on how Barry played it with Brooks out in the RS.

Maybe Orlov is next up moving over from RD, or gets some looks there if Nate stumbles. Since stopping trying to Orr it, his turnovers seem to have been reduced dramatically and he looks much better to me.

Likely...
Schmidt Carlson | Chorney Orlov

Any advanced stats folks want to chime in on those pairs? TIA

Other looks:
Orlov Carlson | Schmidt Chorney or Weber <-> Schmidt

 

[Raikkonen]

Getting the 4th win is the proper way instead of letting Carlson rest. He will have enough time to rest between the rounds. Also, he is an iron man, I doubt he needs it that bad now.

I don't think it's critical to win in 4, but it has to be done in 5. Thinking about it, Philly players will do themselves a favor if they'd show up in the next game and play good hockey. They can win somehow. But 2 times in a row? Hardly. Then it's your rest.

And yes, Schmidt will be better and we can win with him. Other teams are losing their Orpiks too.

Weber would be substituting Orpik's PK TOI too, they are similar in that aspect, I expect him to dress for the 4th. If Weber isn't good enough, we will know it without much consequences. That's a bonus. Better to know it before going down in the 2nd round.

 

[RandyHolt]

...

Orlov hit was weird. Illegal, but did not seem intentional, not at all, although definitely reckless and very dangerous, given the weird position Orlov was in, all bending over while heading into the corner. I was feeling strange about the NBCSN heads' talk of a certain suspension coming out of it at first, but it was such a dangerous situation that yeah, after further thought, I guess they're probably right and he will get suspended.

I too have been pondering the Orlov hit. When the world screams suspension!!!!!1!, I like to have a second look. Yes it's a board and very dangerous play yadda yadda.

Yep Orlov put himself into a very odd position getting as low as he did, while trying to backhand the puck behind the goal, and with one arm. The lower you go, the closer the head goes to the boards.

I think Belly tried to get left position, and that's just the way Orlov went - while bent. I feel like most of the time, the Dman slows to adsorb the hit from behind, stay upright, shield the puck etc and Belly played it that way, with a flyer covering the right. There was no way for Belly to know Orlov would end up in the bent left position he was in and thus am inclined to not suspend him, as a guy with no priors. First warning.

Bellemare was probably afraid of getting pelted with a tire chain if he didn't hit him there, in some fashion. #PhillyPeerPressure

 

[twabby]

I think Weber would have been in over Schmidt, actually. And paired with Orlov. Regardless, my post was speculative.

About Schmidt, I am not sure he is ready for playoff prime time - Nates TOI this series 7, 13, 12 does not scream prime time. But he is presumed next up based on how Barry played it with Brooks out in the RS.

Maybe Orlov is next up moving over from RD, or gets some looks there if Nate stumbles. Since stopping trying to Orr it, his turnovers seem to have been reduced dramatically and he looks much better to me.

Likely...
Schmidt Carlson | Chorney Orlov

Any advanced stats folks want to chime in on those pairs? TIA

Other looks:
Orlov Carlson | Schmidt Chorney or Weber <-> Schmidt

Schmidt-Carlson wasn't great during the regular season, but they weren't terrible. They've already played several minutes this post-season and have been very good IMO, so I like the 27-2, 88-74, 9-4 combinations. Shelter the hell out of 9-4 and I think it'll be fine.

 

[Maruk moustache]

I too have been pondering the Orlov hit. When the world screams suspension!!!!!1!, I like to have a second look. Yes it's a board and very dangerous play yadda yadda.

Yep Orlov put himself into a very odd position getting as low as he did, while trying to backhand the puck behind the goal, and with one arm. The lower you go, the closer the head goes to the boards.

I think Belly tried to get left position, and that's just the way Orlov went - while bent. I feel like most of the time, the Dman slows to adsorb the hit from behind, shield the puck, etc and Belly played it that with with a flyer covering the right. There was no way for Belly to know Orlov would end up in the bent left position he was in and thus am inclined to not suspend him, as a guy with no priors. First warning.

Bellemare was probably afraid of getting pelted with a tire iron if he didn't hit him there, in some fashion. #PhillyPeerPressure

Yeah I'm inclined not to suspend him too, actually. And to add to what you said, I don't think Bellemare bending down after to see if was OK was an act or anything--it seemed like he was genuinely upset about the whole thing.

I just think the actual Orlov's head hitting the board thing looks so close to something that could break someone's neck, there'll be too much of that kind of stupid pressure to just suspend him. Besides, a suspension will tell everyone, y'know, to try really hard not to break anyone's neck, even if they are in a goofy position, which isn't a terrible thing. But, yeah, if I were the decider, I think I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt and not suspend.

 

[Portable Mink]

Can ride the top 3 pretty hard in game 3 to close it out in 4. Gives them a weeks rest.

Give Orly a breather.

i stand by this. Orlys neck is going to be pretty damn ginger (sore) today and tomorrow. Not worth it.

Weber and Chorney IN
Orpik and Orlov OUT

 

[Calicaps]

I too have been pondering the Orlov hit. When the world screams suspension!!!!!1!, I like to have a second look. Yes it's a board and very dangerous play yadda yadda.

Yep Orlov put himself into a very odd position getting as low as he did, while trying to backhand the puck behind the goal, and with one arm. The lower you go, the closer the head goes to the boards.

I think Belly tried to get left position, and that's just the way Orlov went - while bent. I feel like most of the time, the Dman slows to adsorb the hit from behind, stay upright, shield the puck etc and Belly played it that way, with a flyer covering the right. There was no way for Belly to know Orlov would end up in the bent left position he was in and thus am inclined to not suspend him, as a guy with no priors. First warning.

Bellemare was probably afraid of getting pelted with a tire chain if he didn't hit him there, in some fashion. #PhillyPeerPressure

Yeah I'm inclined not to suspend him too, actually. And to add to what you said, I don't think Bellemare bending down after to see if was OK was an act or anything--it seemed like he was genuinely upset about the whole thing.

I just think the actual Orlov's head hitting the board thing looks so close to something that could break someone's neck, there'll be too much of that kind of stupid pressure to just suspend him. Besides, a suspension will tell everyone, y'know, to try really hard not to break anyone's neck, even if they are in a goofy position, which isn't a terrible thing. But, yeah, if I were the decider, I think I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt and not suspend.

Could not disagree more. I give Bellemare credit for genuinely being concerned for Orlov's wellbeing after the hit, but he was looking at Orlov's #9 from at least the hash marks and absolutely had time to avoid that hit. Sure Orlov put himself in a particularly vulnerable position but it was not a bang-bang play. Bellemare may not be a dirty player, but that hit was dirty and dangerous and deserves a long suspension.

I love good hard hitting and after seeing the replays believe the hit on Orpik was clean, but the hit on Orlov... No. Someone's gonna get paralyzed or killed by a hit like that one of these days.

 

[Hivemind]

This is literally an insane post...I'm shocked no one responded to this. Glad you had fun at the game but for God's sake, man, get a hold of yourself. We've allowed 2 goals in three games. Would you deem Orlov and Orpik worthy of a sweater if we allowed 1 goal total? Or is it zero goals allowed per series or heads should roll?

The team is playing great. Orpik and Orlov are playing poorly. I don't really think that's a controversial statement.