GDT: Game 19: Sharks @ Kraken 7:00pm NBCSCA

[TheBeard]

If the other team has possession of the puck for over 80% of the game, of course you are going to see more defensive mistakes and breakdowns than normal.

That is literally not an answer for a) the first minute of a game and b) a PP where you where you just had sustained o-zone pressure.

 

[Skeksis25]

I still don't know what you want to happen. These guys are not only not skilled, they are not self motivated players. What magic combination of words are you expecting DQ or someone else to relay to them to make them suddenly become competitive players? They are NHL players, they don't need us to tell them to play for their next contract or something. Pretty sure they know that already and it still doesn't matter. So, what are you expecting to happen instead and how?

 

[weastern bias]

You guys are completely missing my point. Skill is why we’re not winning games, compete level and lack of smarts is why we’re losing games by 5+. Going through the motions game in and game out is the reason this team is giving up breakaways in the first minute of games and shorties with less than a second to go in periods. Those aren’t “skill” issues, those are errors due to lack of a willingness to focus on the fundamentals.

Only 6 of our 16 losses are by 4 or more goals, we're actually not getting blown out as often as it seems, we just have had some monumental lopsided losses amongst them which makes it feel worse than it is

I maintain the difference is not effort, it's skill, this team is actually hanging in more games than their talent dictates, 5 of their losses are by 2 goals or less (6 if you count the shootout loss, which I count as essentially a tie)

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

The Hoff!!

anytime he scores this must be posted my photoshop skills aren’t that good lol

 

[TheBeard]

Only 6 of our 16 losses are by 4 or more goals, we're actually not getting blown out as often as it seems, we just have had some monumental lopsided losses amongst them which makes it feel worse than it is

I maintain the difference is not effort, it's skill, this team is actually hanging in more games than their talent dictates, 5 of their losses are by 2 goals or less (6 if you count the shootout loss, which I count as essentially a tie)

What a weird flex. “Only 6 of our 16 losses are by 4 or more”. 10 are by 3 or more, is that better?

Also, unless you’re not watching the games, you know as well as I do that sometimes the result isn’t indicative of how lopsided the games are. The Colorado game specifically comes to mind.

 

[TheBeard]

I still don't know what you want to happen. These guys are not only not skilled, they are not self motivated players. What magic combination of words are you expecting DQ or someone else to relay to them to make them suddenly become competitive players? They are NHL players, they don't need us to tell them to play for their next contract or something. Pretty sure they know that already and it still doesn't matter. So, what are you expecting to happen instead and how?

Nothing really. I’m just stating that I 100% agree with Quinn’s comments and the reality is using their skill level as an excuse for why they’re as bad as they are is basically the equivalent of handing out participation trophies and only goes so far. I’m glad Quinn called them out collectively in public because while Grier takes the brunt of the criticism for the roster construction, the team as a whole is doing him no favors by phoning it in.

 

[weastern bias]

What a weird flex. “Only 6 of our 16 losses are by 4 or more”. 10 are by 3 or more, is that better?

I'm not "flexing" for this team, lol, I've been harder on the "this team is historically bad" train than most on this board

I just think the stink on the team is leading people to label them quitters when I don't think they're quitting, they're just outmatched against literally every single opponent the league has to offer including fellow bottom feeders, what we are seeing is this team trying their best, their best just happens to be terrible

If anything, the fact that nearly a third of their losses have been in close games shows that they are arguably outperforming their talent level due to hard work (and luck), they had no business being in close games with Boston, Florida or Vancouver but they managed to do so

 

[Skeksis25]

I feel in better organizations, you would consider benching/waiving players not producing or putting in the effort, but you need a decent cupboard in the minors to have alternatives. We do not. We can bench Hoffman, Zadina etc. but what is that going to accomplish really? We will replace them with guys who have no business being in the NHL. People like Zadina you would hope would be interested in having a long career and showing that they deserve it, but maybe he is just one of the many players in history who are meant to be 4-5 year NHL players before they move on. Guys like Hoffman, Granlund and particularly Vlasic seems like the types who are pretty much satisfied with what they have done and are just collecting the last bits of money they can out of the sport before they move on. Duclair, I feel does show some desire and compete, but he just doesn't seem to have it anymore.

Public callouts and Grier threats might lead to little surges here and there once in a while, but eventually I'm sure even that won't have much effect. This season and probably the next couple ones too are literally just about accepting the suck. Although maybe if our captain ever decides to grace the team with his presence, that could provide a little boost.

 

[TheBeard]

I'm not "flexing" for this team, lol, I've been harder on the "this team is historically bad" train than most on this board

I just think the stink on the team is leading people to label them quitters when I don't think they're quitting, they're just outmatched against literally every single opponent the league has to offer including fellow bottom feeders, what we are seeing is this team trying their best, their best just happens to be terrible

If anything, the fact that nearly a third of their losses have been in close games shows that they are arguably outperforming their talent level due to hard work (and luck), they had no business being in close games with Boston, Florida or Vancouver but they managed to do so

This is a poor argument because aside from maybe one or two of those losses, they were saved from complete meltdown by elite goaltending. On paper they’re really not much different from Chicago.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I feel in better organizations, you would consider benching/waiving players not producing or putting in the effort, but you need a decent cupboard in the minors to have alternatives. We do not. We can bench Hoffman, Zadina etc. but what is that going to accomplish really? We will replace them with guys who have no business being in the NHL. People like Zadina you would hope would be interested in having a long career and showing that they deserve it, but maybe he is just one of the many players in history who are meant to be 4-5 year NHL players before they move on. Guys like Hoffman, Granlund and particularly Vlasic seems like the types who are pretty much satisfied with what they have done and are just collecting the last bits of money they can out of the sport before they move on. Duclair, I feel does show some desire and compete, but he just doesn't seem to have it anymore.

Public callouts and Grier threats might lead to little surges here and there once in a while, but eventually I'm sure even that won't have much effect. This season and probably the next couple ones too are literally just about accepting the suck. Although maybe if our captain ever decides to grace the team with his presence, that could provide a little boost.

We're just keeping Couture fresh for the playoff push.

This is a poor argument because aside from maybe one or two of those losses, they were saved from complete meltdown by elite goaltending. On paper they’re really not much different from Chicago.

Chicago has Bedard who is already driving play at an elite level, better goalies, and defensemen who are actually NHL caliber. Chicago is a much more talented team than the Sharks.

 

[weastern bias]

This is a poor argument because aside from maybe one or two of those losses, they were saved from complete meltdown by elite goaltending. On paper they’re really not much different from Chicago.

We really are that much worse than Chicago on paper

And you're right, we were saved by goaltending, that's because we have so little skill we get caved in every night

Every defenseman on the roster is injury replacement quality

We have one NHL caliber goaltender

We're playing a bad 3rd line winger at 2C, a decent 4th line winger at 3C and an AHL journeyman at 4C

We have one true play driving forward in Hertl (Eklund may be one, but it's still a mystery box) and no wingers who can alleviate his workload and help him out, especially when Quinn insists on demoting Eklund (and holding no one else accountable)

Meanwhile Chicago has actual NHL caliber D men on the roster, the best prospect to enter the league since McDavid, a legitimate top 6 winger in Hall and veteran forward depth in Dickinson, Perry and Foligno, their goaltending is really bad but that's by design because they're still tanking

We are so much worse than the Blackhawks it's not even funny (it's pretty funny, actually)

 

[Alaskanice]

We’re also missing two play driving forwards, both quite good at that in Couture and Barabonov. That could help us.

 

[TheBeard]

Chicago has Bedard who is already driving play at an elite level, better goalies, and defensemen who are actually NHL caliber. Chicago is a much more talented team than the Sharks.

Are they though? Their defense is a collection of has-beens like Conner Murphy and Zaitsev and overpaid boat anchors like Seth Jones. Hell they even have their own useless Vlasic.

To say Mrazek is a better goaltender than Blackwood is insane.

Forwards, with Hall out for the year, all Chicago has is Bedard, Reichal and a bunch of (stop me if you’ve heard this) older castoffs from other teams. Their centers are Kurachev, Tyler Johnson, Jason Dickinson and Ryan Donato.

They’re not a better team on paper.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

When then like I said, they’re screwing with their own futures. Do you think Zadina gets another job after this in the NHL? Doubt it.

He may or he may not. Zadina was also let go at such a young age for a reason. The people we know aren’t long for this team and aren’t contributing shouldn’t be kept in the way of a kid who can use the experience even if he’s physically overwhelmed or just outmatched. Eklund is still pretty outmatched but it’s hard to argue he’s not benefitting from the experience.

 

[TheBeard]

le Chicago has actual NHL caliber D men on the roster, the best prospect to enter the league since McDavid, a legitimate top 6 winger in Hall and veteran forward depth in Dickinson, Perry and Foligno, their goaltending is really bad but that's by design because they're still tanking

Hall is out for the year, Perry and Foligno at this point are no different than Duclair or Kunin. Their D is literally Seth Jones and 4 mid-round rookies.

He may or he may not. Zadina was also let go at such a young age for a reason. The people we know aren’t long for this team and aren’t contributing shouldn’t be kept in the way of a kid who can use the experience even if he’s physically overwhelmed or just outmatched. Eklund is still pretty outmatched but it’s hard to argue he’s not benefitting from the experience.

Which is why Eklund gets the tough love the vets like Hoffman or Zadina don’t.

 

[weastern bias]

Hall is out for the year, Perry and Foligno at this point are no different than Duclair or Kunin. Their D is literally Seth Jones and 4 mid-round rookies.

Didn't know Hall was out, but the existence of Bedard and Jones makes their top-6 and defense an order of magnitude better than either of our units and Perry and Foligno actually occupy bottom 6 spots and serve those functions while we consistently have Duclair and Kunin in the top 6 with the bottom 6 serving as a barren wasteland of washed vets and failed projects, we are firmly behind Chicago

 

[TheBeard]

Didn't know Hall was out, but the existence of Bedard and Jones makes their top-6 and defense an order of magnitude better than either of our units and Perry and Foligno actually occupy bottom 6 spots and serve those functions while we consistently have Duclair and Kunin in the top 6 with the bottom 6 serving as a barren wasteland of washed vets and failed projects, we are firmly behind Chicago

It really doesn’t. Bedard is literally the only reason Chicago is competent but outside of a couple blowouts they’ve been in almost every game. Y’all mock Duclair like he wasn’t a 30 goal scorer the year before last. Tyler Johnson, who’s been on their second line, hasn’t been anything but an overpaid liability since pre-Covid. Frankly, once (and I guess if) Logan and Barabanov come back our top 6 will be MILES better than Chicago’s.

 

[weastern bias]

It really doesn’t. Bedard is literally the only reason Chicago is competent but outside of a couple blowouts they’ve been in almost every game. Y’all mock Duclair like he wasn’t a 30 goal scorer the year before last. Tyler Johnson, who’s been on their second line, hasn’t been anything but an overpaid liability since pre-Covid. Frankly, once (and I guess if) Logan and Barabanov come back our top 6 will be MILES better than Chicago’s.

I'm not mocking Duclair, he is a complimentary goal scorer who put up 30 playing with elite play drivers in Florida, here he never sniffs the ice next to Hertl because David Quinn is a moron so he doesn't have the ability to replicate that kind of performance (he also doesn't have a player like Ekblad to spring him off the break)

Bedard is such a game changer he alone makes Chicago's top 6 better than ours, he's driving play in a positive direction and is scoring at nearly a 50 goal pace, our only top 6 center isn't driving play at an elite level anymore and is currently on pace for 17 goals, these are not the same

Nevermind that Seth Jones is so much better than any D in our organization it isn't even worth comparing

 

[LilLeeroy]

Are they though? Their defense is a collection of has-beens like Conner Murphy and Zaitsev and overpaid boat anchors like Seth Jones. Hell they even have their own useless Vlasic.

To say Mrazek is a better goaltender than Blackwood is insane.

Forwards, with Hall out for the year, all Chicago has is Bedard, Reichal and a bunch of (stop me if you’ve heard this) older castoffs from other teams. Their centers are Kurachev, Tyler Johnson, Jason Dickinson and Ryan Donato.

They’re not a better team on paper.

Only their Vlasic is actually a pretty good player, instead of a worthless bum. Korchinksi is already a positive contributor and will probably only get better as the year goes on. And Seth Jones might be overpaid but he is still a top 4 defender, something the Sharks don't have a single one of.

Kursashev is already a PPG player and has been a stud to start the year, Bedard is a stud, Foligno is a valuable role player,

Mrazek has a 0.7 GSAA in comparison to Mackenzie's -3 (which is still quite a bit higher than his usual -6).

"They're not better on paper, they just have half a dozen players better than anybody on the Sharks"

 

[TheBeard]

I'm not mocking Duclair, he is a complimentary goal scorer who put up 30 playing with elite play drivers in Florida, here he never sniffs the ice next to Hertl because David Quinn is a moron so he doesn't have the ability to replicate that kind of performance (he also doesn't have a player like Ekblad to spring him off the break)

Bedard is such a game changer he alone makes Chicago's top 6 better than ours, he's driving play in a positive direction and is scoring at nearly a 50 goal pace, our only top 6 center isn't driving play at an elite level anymore and is currently on pace for 17 goals, these are not the same

Nevermind that Seth Jones is so much better than any D in our organization it isn't even worth comparing

Jones’ contract may be the only defensive contract worse than Vlasic’s. Defensively he’s competent at best, but offensively he’s a void. In fact they finally pulled him from PP1 (and replaced by Korchinski) and Hawks fans are celebrating like they just won the cup.

We’re just gonna have to agree to disagree. But with Hall out and now Perry, there’s very little talent in their lineup outside of Bedard. He’s good, no doubt, but he’s not yet at the level where we can safely say he alone compensates for 11 other inefficient forwards. Eventually he’ll get worn down this year and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see Chicago go on an extended losing streak unlike what we endured.

 

[Cas]

Jones’ contract may be the only defensive contract worse than Vlasic’s. Defensively he’s competent at best, but offensively he’s a void. In fact they finally pulled him from PP1 (and replaced by Korchinski) and Hawks fans are celebrating like they just won the cup.

We’re just gonna have to agree to disagree. But with Hall out and now Perry, there’s very little talent in their lineup outside of Bedard. He’s good, no doubt, but he’s not yet at the level where we can safely say he alone compensates for 11 other inefficient forwards. Eventually he’ll get worn down this year and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see Chicago go on an extended losing streak unlike what we endured.

I mean, Vlasic is a void in both directions. Being competent defensively would be a gigantic upgrade.

 

[weastern bias]

Jones’ contract may be the only defensive contract worse than Vlasic’s. Defensively he’s competent at best, but offensively he’s a void. In fact they finally pulled him from PP1 (and replaced by Korchinski) and Hawks fans are celebrating like they just won the cup.

We’re just gonna have to agree to disagree. But with Hall out and now Perry, there’s very little talent in their lineup outside of Bedard. He’s good, no doubt, but he’s not yet at the level where we can safely say he alone compensates for 11 other inefficient forwards. Eventually he’ll get worn down this year and I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see Chicago go on an extended losing streak unlike what we endured.

Jones is at very least an NHL player, he's over paid but it's not the same kind of disaster the Vlasic deal is, he'd be over paid at league minimum

Bedard doesn't need to compensate for 11 forwards, just 5, to make his presence improve their top 6 over ours, and he's so good I feel comfortable saying Bedard and 5 warm bodies is better than a top 6 with Granlund and Zadina in it

It's okay that we disagree on the forwards, but it's unarguable that our defense is the worst in the league, we don't have a single defenseman who should be in the top-6 on a cup contender right now, it's all 7s 8s and 9s our there, and that is the biggest reason we get outshot, outchanced and outplayed every night

Who is our best defenseman? Is it Emberson? Addison? Okhotiuk? These are all inexcusable answers, we don't have the D core to expect any better than being caved in every night

 

[weastern bias]

We’re also missing two play driving forwards, both quite good at that in Couture and Barabonov. That could help us.

I love Barabanov, he is not a play driving forward, he is a great complimentary piece who plays well with actual play driving forwards, he is a connective piece, not a foundational one

Couture hasn't driven play at a high level in years, he's been a guy who plays decent regular season hockey and steps up huge in the playoffs since about 2019, the problem is that is the last time we played a playoff game so it hasn't done us any favors in half a decade

 

[Alaskanice]

I love Barabanov, he is not a play driving forward, he is a great complimentary piece who plays well with actual play driving forwards, he is a connective piece, not a foundational one

Couture hasn't driven play at a high level in years, he's been a guy who plays decent regular season hockey and steps up huge in the playoffs since about 2019, the problem is that is the last time we played a playoff game so it hasn't done us any favors in half a decade

And yet, on this team that lacks play drivers of any level, these two can help. A player such as Duclair or Hoffman may do much better with their puck holding and passing.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Which is why Eklund gets the tough love the vets like Hoffman or Zadina don’t.

I haven’t minded the coaching given to Eklund. The occasional missing of a shift or two is fine. I just don’t see a good reason to keep Gushchin and Bordeleau down when all Sturm does is win draws and Labanc isn’t producing and Zadina has played demonstrably worse in every facet to what Gushchin put out even against Florida.