GDT: Game 19: Sharks @ Kraken 7:00pm NBCSCA

[Pinkfloyd]

That’s fine but it’s 100% on the players, many of which are playing not just for the team but their own futures. This is why I’ve said pride is just non-existent in this team, instead of the ego blow of trying and losing, they’d just rather embrace the losing without bothering. We’ve seen snippets of what every player is capable of and we’ve seen what the team can do if they care enough. They just simply don’t.

Why should they? The level and effort they have to play at just to keep it competitive is typically more than they’re capable. Management knows they suck and don’t have much in way of avenues to improve. Players aren’t going to buy in when that dynamic exists and it’s what should be expected when critiquing a bad team playing badly.

 

[Anomie2029]

The PK system by design allows an opposition player in front of Blackwood/Kahk without any challenge

The DZ system requires a high amount of communication and constant switch of coverage. Even the best teams would struggle to implement. This isn’t a system for this calibre of roster.

Punishing young offence-skilled players for single errors and discouraging offensive plays when the team can not scores.

These are three simple areas where Quinn is directly responsible.

 

[OrrNumber4]

That’s fine but it’s 100% on the players, many of which are playing not just for the team but their own futures. This is why I’ve said pride is just non-existent in this team, instead of the ego blow of trying and losing, they’d just rather embrace the losing without bothering. We’ve seen snippets of what every player is capable of and we’ve seen what the team can do if they care enough. They just simply don’t.

Well-said.

Of course, the primary issue is a lack of talent. Even with so much parity, talented teams can let their skill do the talking. But, I still would worry about the culture and the compete level of the team.

As bad as not having talent is, that is an issue that can resolve itself...be awful long enough and you'll get those high draft picks. But issues with culture can fester and become very hard to fix.

 

[Skeksis25]

The culture will change when we have players worth building and rallying around. Right now, everyone is a transitional piece, just here for a paycheck. Its nice to hope you can motivate them into playing with more pride or something, but I don't think its realistic. Its like an uninspiring job most people have at some point in their lives. Just there to collect a paycheck and not much else. Players and coaches right now don't have a reason to be all that invested in the long term success of the the franchise.

Right now on this team, even if you give it your all and put in all the energy you can, the team isn't going to be much better and your individual production isn't going to be much better. Might as well just go through the motions, cash in your checks and move on.

 

[OrrNumber4]

The culture will change when we have players worth building and rallying around. Right now, everyone is a transitional piece, just here for a paycheck. Its nice to hope you can motivate them into playing with more pride or something, but I don't think its realistic. Its like an uninspiring job most people have at some point in their lives. Just there to collect a paycheck and not much else. Players and coaches right now don't have a reason to be all that invested in the long term success of the the franchise.

Right now on this team, even if you give it your all and put in all the energy you can, the team isn't going to be much better and your individual production isn't going to be much better. Might as well just go through the motions, cash in your checks and move on.

That sets a bad precedent. You should always set the expectation that people will be held accountable.

It's going was back, but Jeff Friesen credits the addition of certain players on that '97 team in being crucial to setting the "hard-work" mentality that made the Sharks a consistent playoff team. From my limited viewings, Vlasic, Labanc, and Hoffman look like they are taking shortcuts. Others have pointed out Zadina, and Hertl was cold out of the gate.

 

[Skeksis25]

I get that, but you can't force them to play with more effort or pride. What are we offering them to do so? How would you suggest we get Vlasic or Hoffman to play with more effort?

The one thing you could try to tell them is if they produce more, they could sign bigger deals elsewhere next, but I doubt with the team around them, a little more effort will do much to their individual numbers anyway. Vlasic has been clocking in and out and not much else for years. Why change now?

 

[OrrNumber4]

I get that, but you can't force them to play with more effort or pride. What are we offering them to do so? How would you suggest we get Vlasic or Hoffman to play with more effort?

The one thing you could try to tell them is if they produce more, they could sign bigger deals elsewhere next, but I doubt with the team around them, a little more effort will do much to their individual numbers anyway. Vlasic has been clocking in and out and not much else for years. Why change now?

If they don't produce, bench them, waive them, demote them.

 

[Hodge]

It makes sense to waive Vlasic, Labanc, Granlund and probably a few others but then who do you call up? It’s not worth tossing Gushchin or Bordeleau into roles they’re clearly not ready for just to send a message to the veterans.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Saskatoon]

It had more to do with a shift in league expectations. The fact is Burns demanded an 8 year deal because that's what the league was offering at the time. Could you imagine the reaction if Burns left in FA because Wilson only offered 5 years?

Unfortunately, the game changed and Wilson couldn't adapt and started chasing.

Also was unfortunate how badly Jones and Vlasic's play dropped in particular immediately after signing extensions.

 

[Alaskanice]

I get that, but you can't force them to play with more effort or pride. What are we offering them to do so? How would you suggest we get Vlasic or Hoffman to play with more effort?

The one thing you could try to tell them is if they produce more, they could sign bigger deals elsewhere next, but I doubt with the team around them, a little more effort will do much to their individual numbers anyway. Vlasic has been clocking in and out and not much else for years. Why change now?

Coaches shouldn’t have to “force ” players to have effort. These guys are in the National Hockey League. They are professional athletes. They make good money playing a game.
Even players with less talent are in this league. They CAN play hard. They CAN win battles. They CAN clear the net. They CAN forecheck. They’ve been doing this their entire lives.
There is love here for Mikey Essyimont. Why? Because he scores a bunch of goals and wins us games?? No, he works hard. It’s a thing. It does work.

 

[TheBeard]

Why should they? The level and effort they have to play at just to keep it competitive is typically more than they’re capable. Management knows they suck and don’t have much in way of avenues to improve. Players aren’t going to buy in when that dynamic exists and it’s what should be expected when critiquing a bad team playing badly.

When then like I said, they’re screwing with their own futures. Do you think Zadina gets another job after this in the NHL? Doubt it.

 

[TheBeard]

I get that, but you can't force them to play with more effort or pride. What are we offering them to do so? How would you suggest we get Vlasic or Hoffman to play with more effort?

An opportunity to showcase themselves? As many have said, most of the guys wouldn’t be sniffing the nhl on other rosters, yet they’re given a golden opportunity to show what they can do and instead of embracing it they’re just proving everyone else right about their future prospects. As someone else pointed out, Eyissimont had no reason to play hard last year and had no business playing in the nhl, yet here we are and here he is playing a valuable role on TB and probably made himself a few million in the process.

 

[Cas]

Utterly defeated armies tend to have poor morale, in addition to being unable to win battles because they're just outclassed.

Ultimately, this is just a bad team that has no hope left. A bunch of these guys are on the downswing and are just collecting their last paychecks, and there's nothing we can do about it except send them home and replace them with guys who aren't really any better (sure, we can replace Hoffman with Gushchin, but if we replaced every forward who is done, we're going to be starting Sabourin or Wiesblatt).

Most of this team just straight-up does not have the talent to compete - Zadina is just this year's Svechnikov - a high draft pick who doesn't have any plus skills and is playing his way out of the league. They can play with 110% intensity, but it won't matter.

 

[weastern bias]

It's so much more insulting to these players to insinuate that they don't care enough to try to win than it is to criticize their ability and talent level

They're professional hockey players, they want to win, they also understand that the viability of their continued career is tied to their on-ice performance, by saying they don't care or they don't try their best is both calling them stupid enough to jeopardize their career and is questioning their integrity as competitors

All I'm saying is they're worse hockey players than other NHL hockey players, yet I'm the one talking down on the team somehow, it doesn't make sense

I WILL insult the shit out of David Quinn though, that guy f***ing sucks and is dumb as hell

 

[hockeyCEO]

Quinn is right, we chased the puck all night. We can finish checks, put a body on guys, and slow them down. It doesn't take talent to play the right way. Our lack of talent means we'll be lucky to score two goals a game.


If Quinn has had enough, I wonder if GMMG would call Darryl Sutter.

 

[one2gamble]

I generally expect 1 period of hard fought close hockey and then we watch the wheels fall off because the talent can't keep up.

We aren't getting 2 minutes of that most nights....

 

[TheBeard]

It's so much more insulting to these players to insinuate that they don't care enough to try to win than it is to criticize their ability and talent level

They're professional hockey players, they want to win, they also understand that the viability of their continued career is tied to their on-ice performance, by saying they don't care or they don't try their best is both calling them stupid enough to jeopardize their career and is questioning their integrity as competitors

All I'm saying is they're worse hockey players than other NHL hockey players, yet I'm the one talking down on the team somehow, it doesn't make sense

I WILL insult the shit out of David Quinn though, that guy f***ing sucks and is dumb as hell

If that’s them trying then they’re legitimately 100 times worse than I thought.

Edit: woah. 13 words in that sentence and 8 of them start with T.

 

[Skeksis25]

An opportunity to showcase themselves? As many have said, most of the guys wouldn’t be sniffing the nhl on other rosters, yet they’re given a golden opportunity to show what they can do and instead of embracing it they’re just proving everyone else right about their future prospects. As someone else pointed out, Eyissimont had no reason to play hard last year and had no business playing in the nhl, yet here we are and here he is playing a valuable role on TB and probably made himself a few million in the process.

But if they were self motivated players, or players willing to give that kinda effort night in and night out, they wouldn't have found their way on the 2023-24 San Jose Sharks roster. They would have found opportunities on any other team. We assembled a roster of rejects and players nobody else wanted. A bunch of players nobody else wanted for good reasons. And now we are acting surprised and outraged that they are the type of players nobody else wanted?

If these guys were productive, self motivated players, they wouldn't have been dumped on us, or signed with us. We are icing a roster full of players who don't belong in the NHL or are just going through the motions collecting paychecks. Not every player turns into 15-20 year career NHLers. A lot of players fizzle out much earlier. We are full of those kinda players.

 

[TheBeard]

But if they were self motivated players, or players willing to give that kinda effort night in and night out, they wouldn't have found their way on the 2023-24 San Jose Sharks roster. They would have found opportunities on any other team. We assembled a roster of rejects and players nobody else wanted. A bunch of players nobody else wanted for good reasons. And now we are acting surprised and outraged that they are the type of players nobody else wanted?

If these guys were productive, self motivated players, they wouldn't have been dumped on us, or signed with us. We are icing a roster full of players who don't belong in the NHL or are just going through the motions collecting paychecks. Not every player turns into 15-20 year career NHLers. A lot of players fizzle out much earlier. We are full of those kinda players.

Don’t buy it. Duclair had a market, Granlund was literally traded for a 2nd 6 months ago, Zadina no doubt would have had other suitors. The difference is they wouldn’t have had the ice time opportunities as they would have on better teams. Guys like Hoffman wouldn’t come close to being on the PP on Pitts for example. If anything they should be looking at what they have here as a golden ticket to relevancy again. They choose not to take advantage of it. If the effort was there they wouldn’t be losing games consistently by 5-6 goals.

 

[weastern bias]

Don’t buy it. Duclair had a market, Granlund was literally traded for a 2nd 6 months ago, Zadina no doubt would have had other suitors. The difference is they wouldn’t have had the ice time opportunities as they would have on better teams. Guys like Hoffman wouldn’t come close to being on the PP on Pitts for example. If anything they should be looking at what they have here as a golden ticket to relevancy again. They choose not to take advantage of it. If the effort was there they wouldn’t be losing games consistently by 5-6 goals.

Not a single player you mentioned drives play in a positive direction, the best among them are finishers who need to capitalize on the work of superior linemates to succeed, you are massively overestimating the quality of talent on this roster

Our talent dictates we lose by 2+ goals every night, any swing above or below that mark is primarily determined by luck, not effort

 

[LilLeeroy]

Don’t buy it. Duclair had a market, Granlund was literally traded for a 2nd 6 months ago, Zadina no doubt would have had other suitors. The difference is they wouldn’t have had the ice time opportunities as they would have on better teams. Guys like Hoffman wouldn’t come close to being on the PP on Pitts for example. If anything they should be looking at what they have here as a golden ticket to relevancy again. They choose not to take advantage of it. If the effort was there they wouldn’t be losing games consistently by 5-6 goals.

And the guy who traded a 2nd for Granlund lost his job because of it.

 

[Cas]

Don’t buy it. Duclair had a market, Granlund was literally traded for a 2nd 6 months ago, Zadina no doubt would have had other suitors. The difference is they wouldn’t have had the ice time opportunities as they would have on better teams. Guys like Hoffman wouldn’t come close to being on the PP on Pitts for example. If anything they should be looking at what they have here as a golden ticket to relevancy again. They choose not to take advantage of it. If the effort was there they wouldn’t be losing games consistently by 5-6 goals.

Guys like Hoffman, Granlund, and Zadina just aren't good enough. Hoffman would have been retired if he didn't have this last year on his contract, Granlund was a total flop buoyed by Josi on the power play, and Zadina is a busted prospect who doesn't actually have any NHL-average skills. You could keep applying this to the rest of the team - Vlasic is done for, Kahkonen is not an NHL goaltender and just looked good on Minnesota, Rutta's a 7D, Duclair is a mediocre middle-six scoring forward coming off an injury, Smith is a plug, etc.

Effort isn't their problem - skill is. They're just not good enough.

 

[TheBeard]

Not a single player you mentioned drives play in a positive direction, the best among them are finishers who need to capitalize on the work of superior linemates to succeed, you are massively overestimating the quality of talent on this roster

Our talent dictates we lose by 2+ goals every night, any swing above or below that mark is primarily determined by luck, not effort

Guys like Hoffman, Granlund, and Zadina just aren't good enough. Hoffman would have been retired if he didn't have this last year on his contract, Granlund was a total flop buoyed by Josi on the power play, and Zadina is a busted prospect who doesn't actually have any NHL-average skills. You could keep applying this to the rest of the team - Vlasic is done for, Kahkonen is not an NHL goaltender and just looked good on Minnesota, Rutta's a 7D, Duclair is a mediocre middle-six scoring forward coming off an injury, Smith is a plug, etc.

Effort isn't their problem - skill is. They're just not good enough.

You guys are completely missing my point. Skill is why we’re not winning games, compete level and lack of smarts is why we’re losing games by 5+. Going through the motions game in and game out is the reason this team is giving up breakaways in the first minute of games and shorties with less than a second to go in periods. Those aren’t “skill” issues, those are errors due to lack of a willingness to focus on the fundamentals.

 

[LilLeeroy]

You guys are completely missing my point. Skill is why we’re not winning games, compete level and lack of smarts is why we’re losing games by 5+. Going through the motions game in and game out is the reason this team is giving up breakaways in the first minute of games and shorties with less than a second to go in periods. Those aren’t “skill” issues, those are errors due to lack of a willingness to focus on the fundamentals.

If the other team has possession of the puck for over 80% of the game, of course you are going to see more defensive mistakes and breakdowns than normal.