Confirmed with Link: Frolik Signs [1yr 3.3M]

[GoJetsGo55]

We don't have enough info to make a fair evaluation..... For all we know the jets offered 3.7 and Walsh wanted 4.1 and chevy was wrong not to make a deal.... Or the jets offered 4.1 and Walsh wanted 5.5 and chevy was right to say no.... None of us have any idea who is responsible in this situation.

I blame Mickey Moose and have as much concrete info as those who blame Chevy or fro or Walsh lol

Well said!

This is why those who jump the gun and go straight to "CHEVY SUCKS!!!!!!!!" drive me insane.

 

[Jet]

Well said!

This is why those who jump the gun and go straight to "CHEVY SUCKS!!!!!!!!" drive me insane.

You keep giving Cheveldayoff the benefit of the doubt. I will keep questioning him, criticizing him, and hoping that he either shows some balls or gets fired.

I'd like to see this team make the playoffs, one day. Moving to Winnipeg was supposed to be some magic elixir to fix what was ailing the Thrashers. I wish we would have kept Dudley, he was actually proactive and made some pretty strong moves for the team in his short time at the helm.

 

[GJF]

You keep giving Cheveldayoff the benefit of the doubt. I will keep questioning him, criticizing him, and hoping that he either shows some balls or gets fired.

I'd like to see this team make the playoffs, one day. Moving to Winnipeg was supposed to be some magic elixir to fix what was ailing the Thrashers. I wish we would have kept Dudley, he was actually proactive and made some pretty strong moves for the team in his short time at the helm.

So do I. I liked what Dudley did in the short time window he had. I don't think things would be worse as how they are right now but they could easily be better.

 

[Board Bard]

I wish we would have kept Dudley, he was actually proactive and made some pretty strong moves for the team in his short time at the helm.

I don't think there was any chance Chipman was going to sign anyone other than Chevy as GM. The minor league owner liked the cut of the minor league GM's jib from their years in the minor leagues, and that was that. Dudley, by comparison, wore a goatee and Armani suits, way too glitzy for Chipman. Hell, Sam Pollock himself could have descended in a cloud of beatific light and Chipman would not have looked at him twice. As for Noel, IMO Chevy inferred from things Chipman said that Noel should be a candidate for NHL boss. Being new at that level and not the most courageous of trigger pullers, Chevy caved.

 

[Gm0ney]

Well said!

This is why those who jump the gun and go straight to "CHEVY SUCKS!!!!!!!!" drive me insane.

After witnessing Chevy's first 38 months on the job, I'm gonna just go and "jump the gun" here and say he pretty much sucks at everything but drafting.

 

[surixon]

You keep giving Cheveldayoff the benefit of the doubt. I will keep questioning him, criticizing him, and hoping that he either shows some balls or gets fired.

I'd like to see this team make the playoffs, one day. Moving to Winnipeg was supposed to be some magic elixir to fix what was ailing the Thrashers. I wish we would have kept Dudley, he was actually proactive and made some pretty strong moves for the team in his short time at the helm.

Would Dudley have been able to do the same here with a different mandate from his bosses and a different set of circumstances to work with? He may have done better, but he may have done worse as well.

Simply put Chipman hired a guy who shared his belief's and presented a plan that fit. Chipman did meet with Dudley first and must not have cared for what he heard.

 

[Jet]

Would Dudley have been able to do the same here with a different mandate from his bosses and a different set of circumstances to work with? He may have done better, but he may have done worse as well.

Simply put Chipman hired a guy who shared his belief's and presented a plan that fit. Chipman did meet with Dudley first and must not have cared for what he heard.

Well if that's the case that concerns me much more that Cheveldayoff's perceived lack of ability. If in fact the direction of the Jets is being managed in that way by Chipman, we are doomed.

Smart leaders hire great people to do the job and then LET THEM DO IT. If Chipman thinks he knows how to build an NHL roster and win he is way out of his depth and that is Steinbrenner territory there.

 

[surixon]

Well if that's the case that concerns me much more that Cheveldayoff's perceived lack of ability. If in fact the direction of the Jets is being managed in that way by Chipman, we are doomed.

Smart leaders hire great people to do the job and then LET THEM DO IT. If Chipman thinks he knows how to build an NHL roster and win he is way out of his depth and that is Steinbrenner territory there.

Do you just expect him to hand the keys over and let whoever he picks to have Carteblanch on all transactions?

It simply put doesn't work like that in all walks of business. He will present a framework in which Chevy can operate in as he sees fit, no different than most other ownership/manager combinations.

 

[Gm0ney]

Do you just expect him to hand the keys over and let whoever he picks to have Carteblanch on all transactions?

It simply put doesn't work like that in all walks of business. He will present a framework in which Chevy can operate in as he sees fit, no different than most other ownership/manager combinations.

I think there's a range of ownership involvement in any business - but in sports, you generally see rich men who made their money elsewhere turning over the player personnel part of the job to people who understand the game and have experience managing a team. It seems that when the owners get directly involved, as it sounds like Chipman is with the Jets, it's often a disaster (Wang in NYI, Katz in Edmonton, Al Davis of the Raiders, whoever owns the Detroit Lions and kept Wayne Fonts around for 100 years). This isn't selling Civics at Birchwood here...

 

[supersonic jet]

Well said!

This is why those who jump the gun and go straight to "CHEVY SUCKS!!!!!!!!" drive me insane.

If Frolic is not signed by the trade deadline, he should be traded for picks, and then see what he gets in the open market as a UFA, maybe we get him for 5 mil or less.

 

[Bob E]

To me, there must be a significant gap in what Chevy feels Fro is worth and what Walsh/Fro is asking.

My gut thinks Fro likely asked for Little money ($4.7), and Chevy countered with what he eventually signed for in a 1 yr deal. If Fro came down to $4 mill/yr on a long-term deal, he likely would be signed for 5 yrs.

So if Fro continues to put up decent #'s, he might get the $4.5+ mill that he likely wants. I don't think he gets that or more in FA, tbh. Though if he gets 15+ g/25+ a/40+ pts, who knows.

 

[Jet]

Do you just expect him to hand the keys over and let whoever he picks to have Carteblanch on all transactions?

It simply put doesn't work like that in all walks of business. He will present a framework in which Chevy can operate in as he sees fit, no different than most other ownership/manager combinations.

Well, we don't really know how involved Chipman is in the day to day ops of the team. If it goes beyond cost control, it's wrong. He's not a hockey man. He should hire someone, give them a budget, and let them go.

 

[Bob E]

Do folks really think Chipman is making personnel decisions? I'm sure he has given Chevy full reign and support to make the decisions he feels are necessary.

And it's completely valid for him to be involved from a cost control or budget perspective, he's the owner. I'm sure Chevy says, we could sign this guy, for this amount, but that doesn't fit my plan. To which Chipman likely says, sounds good. If Chevy wants to peruse a higher priced guy in FA, like Statzny or whomever, he likely says to Chevy, if you believe in this guy, then try go get him.

I'd bet Chevy has given him a plan as to what he plans to spend for the next couple of years, and areas he wants to address, and Chipman has likely said - fine. I'm pretty sure they have a good idea of a budget and will spend more when close.

IMO, I don't think Chevy's hands are tied by Chipman or was told he could not buy out Pavelec, by Chipman. I don't think Chevy had any intention of buying Pavelec out, so that conversation likely never took place. I think that decision was made by Chevy knowing his team budget, what's out there in FA, and a belief that Pavs can be better. I also think that Chevy feels Pavs is his best option right now. Not saying that's smart or the right decision, just that is what he likely believes. By January we'll likely know if chevy's faith is deserved, or he's completely fooled. The next question is, what does he do then? My hope is he acts quickly and decisively. But I have nothing to think he will, other than blind hope.

 

[surixon]

Well, we don't really know how involved Chipman is in the day to day ops of the team. If it goes beyond cost control, it's wrong. He's not a hockey man. He should hire someone, give them a budget, and let them go.

OK we are on same page then. I never meant to imply Chipman was meddling just that he sets the budget and goals of the organization and then its Chevy's job to execute with resources/constraints he's given.

 

[Gm0ney]

Do folks really think Chipman is making personnel decisions? I'm sure he has given Chevy full reign and support to make the decisions he feels are necessary.

I don't think Chevy hired Noel.

 

[Bartho]

I don't think Chevy hired Noel.

Did Chevy fire Noel and hire Maurice?

 

[Gm0ney]

Did Chevy fire Noel and hire Maurice?

Chipman described the firing of Noel and hiring of Maurice as something "we" did. And IIRC someone here reported Chipman making a comment (in a talk at U of M) about how firing Noel was a decision between him, Chevy and Zinger (and a very difficult one).

 

[ps241]

My guess is Mark is involved but Chevy has the ultimate say. Commitee approach to the big decisions is common with someone having the ultimate "say".

My belief is Chevy has enough power to be accountable and Mark is a smart enough guy to be in the mix but Mark will live and die by whether Chevy is the right guy on the bus because he is the hockey expert at the top of the Jets food tree. No matter how they got there they have a plan that "MAY" be to draft develop and hold assets. If it succeeds then Mark made the right hire......if it fails Mark either hired the wrong guy or they had a bad plan (or both)......Time will tell.

Frolik needs to be extended or traded.....if we burn him as a rental and miss the playoffs then we have failed to convert an asset again and we are setting our D&D back. Ok so maybe some of the other assets had little to know value at the deadline but there is no way that is the case with Fro. he is a talented young player who can play all over the roster as we have seen. My hopes are we extend him in Janurary if not we are not a win now team anyways so lets make the tough call boys.

 

[Bob E]

My guess is Mark is involved but Chevy has the ultimate say. Commitee approach to the big decisions is common with someone having the ultimate "say".

My belief is Chevy has enough power to be accountable and Mark is a smart enough guy to be in the mix but Mark will live and die by whether Chevy is the right guy on the bus because he is the hockey expert at the top of the Jets food tree. No matter how they got there they have a plan that "MAY" be to draft develop and hold assets. If it succeeds then Mark made the right hire......if it fails Mark either hired the wrong guy or they had a bad plan (or both)......Time will tell.

Frolik needs to be extended or traded.....if we burn him as a rental and miss the playoffs then we have failed to convert an asset again and we are setting our D&D back. Ok so maybe some of the other assets had little to know value at the deadline but there is no way that is the case with Fro. he is a talented young player who can play all over the roster as we have seen. My hopes are we extend him in Janurary if not we are not a win now team anyways so lets make the tough call boys.

I'm sure Fro has value, but may not be much more than what we paid to get him, perhaps.

If we don't re-sign Fro, i'd like a 2015 2nd rd pick for him, but that may not be offered. Hard to say. If he looks to be putting up close to 20 goals, then sure, but if he's closer to 10, is he worth a 3rd, 4th? Chances of those picks working out into a NHL player in 3+ yrs is slim.

 

[Grind]

I'm sure Fro has value, but may not be much more than what we paid to get him, perhaps.

If we don't re-sign Fro, i'd like a 2015 2nd rd pick for him, but that may not be offered. Hard to say. If he looks to be putting up close to 20 goals, then sure, but if he's closer to 10, is he worth a 3rd, 4th? Chances of those picks working out into a NHL player in 3+ yrs is slim.

If he has another season like he did I would hope he returns at minimum a third and fourth. Depends. Values were wonoy last TD, could be different with the cap up though

 

[YWGinYYZ]

If he has another season like he did I would hope he returns at minimum a third and fourth. Depends. Values were wonoy last TD, could be different with the cap up though

Or it could be the new norm, unfortunately. It'll be interesting to see what transpires come this years TD.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm sure Fro has value, but may not be much more than what we paid to get him, perhaps.

If we don't re-sign Fro, i'd like a 2015 2nd rd pick for him, but that may not be offered. Hard to say. If he looks to be putting up close to 20 goals, then sure, but if he's closer to 10, is he worth a 3rd, 4th? Chances of those picks working out into a NHL player in 3+ yrs is slim.

If he has another season like he did I would hope he returns at minimum a third and fourth. Depends. Values were wonoy last TD, could be different with the cap up though

I would try to trade him well before the TD. What happens if we are in a race? Keep him and still miss the playoffs or make the PO to be eliminated in the 1st. Then lose him for nothing. I would prefer trading him for a player. You know what you are selling and you know what you are buying. Even with 2 2nds you have just slightly better than a 50/50 chance of getting a player. With a 3rd and a 4th the odds are quite a bit worse. Ugh!

 

[Grind]

Or it could be the new norm, unfortunately. It'll be interesting to see what transpires come this years TD.

Definitely a possibility, we won't know until it happens.


Still Chevy is soooo good at drafting hell turn those 3rds and 4ths into two more Andrew copps anyway

(I would actually be very OK if the return for fro at the deadline was two copp calibre prospects)

 

[Grind]

I would try to trade him well before the TD. What happens if we are in a race? Keep him and still miss the playoffs or make the PO to be eliminated in the 1st. Then lose him for nothing. I would prefer trading him for a player. You know what you are selling and you know what you are buying. Even with 2 2nds you have just slightly better than a 50/50 chance of getting a player. With a 3rd and a 4th the odds are quite a bit worse. Ugh!

You very rarely see upcoming UFA's moved for roster players with term.

Your essentially asking for a dollar for fifty cents.

That's the issue with the one year contract. No matter what were not likely to end up with value as good as four years of frolik(unless he re-signs)

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You very rarely see upcoming UFA's moved for roster players with term.

Your essentially asking for a dollar for fifty cents.

That's the issue with the one year contract. No matter what were not likely to end up with value as good as four years of frolik(unless he re-signs)

Yup. That is a problem.
I'm sure there must be ways of dealing with it though. Trade for another teams upcoming UFA and try to sign him? Throw in a sweetener to compensate for the term difference? If we can't get a first I don't like our chances of getting value for value. Even 2 Copps, what are the odds of getting better than 1 3rd line F out of that? Even if we say that he should have been a mid 2nd pick the odds for 2 of those are not great. I'm not knocking getting picks but I'm trying to be realistic about the odds of them developing. Even Copp himself, what are his odds? He looks promising now but he is still far from NHL ready.

The other option is to pay his price in January and I really don't have much confidence in that happening.