Friedman 30 thoughts - some tidbits on Detroit

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Dear God, tippet would be the worst possible move to make. If half of what yotes fans say he's the antithesis of what you want in a coach for a team full of young players.

I think this is a poor assessment of what he brings. It's akin to Babcock being awful for all of Toronto's young players. Look at that Matthews kid struggle, poor guy.

He's a strong defensive systems coach in the same camp as Babcock. If you have offensive horses, it's not a problem, and your goalie is going to look brilliant while your team still produces. If you don't have the offense, get ready for some real slow and muddy hockey.

Tippett's departure was supposed to herald in an offensive era for "held back" players like Trevor Daley on the blueline. Crawford's open system was going to bring in the run and gun needed to bring the team to the next level. The reality was, oops, Tippett actually kept the team way more competitive than they often deserved and they haven't had a coach anywhere near his caliber until Ruff arrived.

Tippett's been coaching a moneyball team down there most of his tenure, so it's hard to evaluate what he could do with a team that actually supplied the budget to keep talent. Alas, the Wings aren't that team presently. But his time with the Stars, when they were a spender, was impressive.

I don't,man. I just don't know if there's even a point in a coaching change.

Getting a better coach to build to the future? Look, I think the roster stinks so bad, but I also think Blashill isn't getting much out of his boys. The only players that surprise us are the ones that he seems to want to bench and limit ice time, so that seems more by virtue of their innate talent than coach getting every ounce. I mean, of course our biggest example is Riley "Where's the goal?" Sheahan still somehow unable to produce any shred of offense despite best efforts by everyone involved to get that going.
 
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Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,837
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Cleveland
Sunk cost fallacy?

We already know Blashill isn't getting much from this team. Is it really "rolling the dice" if you acquire any other coach? I'd say the bigger gamble appears to be doing nothing and expecting more.

I guess it depends how much you think there is to get out of it, and how much the short comings fall on Blashill. I don't think he's a great coach, but I also don't see guys like Nelson or Torchetti being any real upgrade.

Unless we're bringing in someone that we can safely call an upgrade, I'm fine giving the guy another year with some more experienced kids and maybe a different look on the blueline - even if that look is just benching Ericsson and Kronwall more from the start and leaning more heavily on XO, Russo, and Jensen.

There will be a new crop of up and coming coaches to troll through every spring.
 

WingedWheel1987

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
13,340
912
GPP Michigan
This roster is absolute garbage with almost no upside going forward.

Pick a random fan from the stands to coach the game and they would look the same.

Holland's legacy is gonna take a massive hit going forward.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
Whoever is coaching, doesn't matter. Roster ain't improving next season aside from whatever bandaid fixes Holland dreams up.

And if Holland doesn't sit whoever's coaching down and tell them this is about development, not playoffs, then it really doesn't matter who's coaching. We need to not be playing Z 20 minutes a night. We need to be giving the kids more responsibility. More Jensen, XO, Larkin, Mantha, AA. Less Z, Kronwall, Green. That's all we can do.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
13,828
1,754
In the Garage
The idea of Holland "getting us back" to being competitive is the kind of thing that sinks you further and prolongs your eventual return to becoming competitive. Ken Holland is not going to magically change his ways at the age of 61. He's been in this role for 20 years. His draft and development track record simply isn't good and that's what he's going to have to rely on in order to build a winner. He's also far too committed to his marginal vets which is going to continue to eat up valuable cap space.

This has train wreck written all over it; his ego is tied into making things right again and there's literally no one in the organization who can say no to him. Gotta be honest, it feels a lot like the slow slide the Norris family went through after the golden years.

Buckle up, it's going to be a long, bumpy, painful ride. :help:
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
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I like how the justification for retaining husks of former players, giving the vote of confidence to a coach that appears way in over his head, and remaining confident in young players that have all sorts of problems is:

They've been successful at previous levels of competition, and/or in previous years, so all is well.

News Flash: EVERY player and coach that makes it to the NHL has been successful at previous levels of competition, or they wouldn't get a shot to begin with.

Hey Kenny, Wayne Gretzky was boatloads of awesomesauce about 30 years ago. Maybe he should play 1C. And you can get my nephew to play top pairing defenseman, since he's been dominating his peewee league. (I mean, since previous success dictates future success and all.)
 

Goalie guy

Registered User
Jul 8, 2011
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Taylor MI
This roster is absolute garbage with almost no upside going forward.

Pick a random fan from the stands to coach the game and they would look the same.

Holland's legacy is gonna take a massive hit going forward.

What legacy? the one that is in his head? He was handed a team that was built for years and slowly drove it into the ground. Because of the legacy in his own mind he is blind to as what he has done and refuses to admit it and retire. And here in is the problem it's all about him and not the team.
 

HIFE

Registered User
May 10, 2011
3,220
259
Detroit, MI
So we're keeping Blashill...I guess Holland has chosen the actively tank route.

Someone else posted this...I find it to be one of the most preposterous theories I've read recently. Holland said over a month ago he thought Blash was a good young coach who was finally putting some good combinations together. Also there's no freak-out happening the man himself said it would take 5 years of missing the playoffs to consider a tear-down rebuild.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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Also there's no freak-out happening the man himself said it would take 5 years of missing the playoffs to consider a tear-down rebuild.

Team has been pretty rough for 3 straight years. You might be able to go back further, arguing the Wings have been playoff underdogs for more consecutive years, but I think the last 3 are without dispute.

Holland's hubris is so mountainous, a Greek chorus will recite his trails to our grandchildren.
 

Syckle78

Registered User
Nov 5, 2011
14,585
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Redford, MI
Someone else posted this...I find it to be one of the most preposterous theories I've read recently. Holland said over a month ago he thought Blash was a good young coach who was finally putting some good combinations together. Also there's no freak-out happening the man himself said it would take 5 years of missing the playoffs to consider a tear-down rebuild.

He's being sarcastic. Nobody thinks blash is staying as part of a planned tank job.
 

Syckle78

Registered User
Nov 5, 2011
14,585
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Redford, MI
It's a decent low-hanging fruit joke, though!

Yea but with all the low hanging fruit jokes this team has provided the last couple years you'd think we'd have harvested enough to make more than enough alcohol to stay plastered through whatever it is Holland does the next five years. But,alas, I don't drink anymore so I'll have to face this sober.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,240
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But,alas, I don't drink anymore so I'll have to face this sober.

giphy.gif
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
11,036
8,788
I've had a realization.

The particular talents of Kenneth Mark Holland have been underappreciated and improperly utilized...But no longer! A man of his unique accumen shall be promoted into the role befitting such a vital and shrewd individual. (He just needs a pair of glasses to add that extra bit of studiousness to the position.)

TADA!

 
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HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
3,675
2,043
Toronto
Something this forum has wanted for year, but now everyone's angry?

I'm cool with it. I'd prefer to give Nelson a shot just because I think he's a better coach and would help develop the kids better while not really moving the needle enough to save our season but if Blashill stays on I like our chances at a top 5 pick which is what we need.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
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The Wings are sitting in a car that is steadily driving toward a cliff. The dude in the driver's seat is Ken Holland. He's the only one who can't see the cliff because he only relies on the past and the car has always been on the road safely in the past. The end of the road is unfathomable to him.

Next year, it will have been a decade since the Cup. A lost decade and he barely would recognize it as such because it's all about 'the resume' with the guy. Some people get all their kicks from what's in the rear view mirror rather than the potential of what is ahead.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
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The Wings are sitting in a car that is steadily driving toward a cliff. The dude in the driver's seat is Ken Holland. He's the only one who can't see the cliff because he only relies on the past and the car has always been on the road safely in the past. The end of the road is unfathomable to him.

Next year, it will have been a decade since the Cup. A lost decade and he barely would recognize it as such because it's all about 'the resume' with the guy. Some people get all their kicks from what's in the rear view mirror rather than the potential of what is ahead.
Most teams in the league have much more than a decade since their last cup. Many have no cups at all.

Hint: it's difficult to win a cup. If we win another in the next 20 years we are beating the odds.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
16,414
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Most teams in the league have much more than a decade since their last cup. Many have no cups at all.

Hint: it's difficult to win a cup. If we win another in the next 20 years we are beating the odds.

Many teams make poor choices. It is indeed difficult to win a Cup, but there are certainly management moves that are more conducive to winning one than others are. There have been some very good teams that never won the Cup but they nevertheless were very good teams.

Creating a very good team and then hope you can win in the playoffs is really all you can ask from management. Problem is that the Wings are not very good and won't be for some time.

Sitting on a roster with ageing stars, who you watch retire one by one, and replacing them with middle of the road FAs and your middling prospects in order to stay 'respectable' and sneak into the playoffs every year is a surefire way to lose far more than just a decade.

Of course, that's not the only way to be a bad franchise (and many here are eager to point out alternative paths of bad management as if that somehow validates the Wings' path). But it is certainly one way to ensure it and we've got a leadership in charge that is happy to travel down that road toward that cliff.
 

Squirrel in the Hole

Be the best squirrel in the hole
Feb 18, 2004
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Just because he wants to come back doesn't mean he's going to be offered the position Its not like Mike Illitch didn't already approach Holland about moving up to President (or whatever it was) to allow Yzerman to stay on as manager.

As long as Chris Illitch and co. have a GM target or two in mind to replace him, there's no guarantee he's re-signed as GM. And Jimmy D is 74. Maybe he retires, Holland is offered Jimmy D's position, and the Wings move on.

Holland didn't exactly do anything to benefit the team last year. This off-season and the next year could easily be his undoing.


^ This. I don't think there will be status-quo patience out of ownership that was there in the past.


Interesting article on Hextall in Philly, couldn't help but see some similarities with our situation. But, at least he's dedicated to a youth movement.


http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/flyers/Philadelphia-Flyers-GM-Ron-Hextall-status-jury-out.html
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
15,053
7,274
Just because he wants to come back doesn't mean he's going to be offered the position Its not like Mike Illitch didn't already approach Holland about moving up to President (or whatever it was) to allow Yzerman to stay on as manager.

As long as Chris Illitch and co. have a GM target or two in mind to replace him, there's no guarantee he's re-signed as GM. And Jimmy D is 74. Maybe he retires, Holland is offered Jimmy D's position, and the Wings move on.

Holland didn't exactly do anything to benefit the team last year. This off-season and the next year could easily be his undoing.

perhaps

I don't think that Yzerman thing you mentioned is particularly relevant though,that was just because Illitch felt close to Yzerman on a personal level and wanted to keep him within the organization

Holland was still in a very good spot at the time,the Wings were literally one year removed from the finals loss to Pittsburgh and while the team did decline a fair amount that year they had also just lost a ton of players to the cap
 

HIFE

Registered User
May 10, 2011
3,220
259
Detroit, MI
It's wild from the 1950's the average (median) length of a GM's tenure is 4 years in the US and 3 in Canada! It's not an injustice to suggest Kenny has overstayed his usefulness and we could use a fresh look.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,843
2,223
Detroit
Their is not a single move Ken Holland can or could make this summer to make this roster a playoff one.


Don't worry folks, their isn't a thing he can do about it.

No free agents available
No trades that can be made
No cap space
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
11,036
8,788
Their is not a single move Ken Holland can or could make this summer to make this roster a playoff one.


Don't worry folks, their isn't a thing he can do about it.

No free agents available
No trades that can be made
No cap space
But if he wants to stay past next season - and, far worse, if Chris Ilitch is actually on board with Holland's approach - then there's nothing preventing him from spending the next 3-5 years replacing contracts like Franzen, Ericsson, and Abdelkader with...more contacts like Franzen, Ericsson, and Abdelkader. All while doing anything in his power to avoid a top 3-5 pick.

I know that EVENTUALLY the declining fan support would help force some action, but wasting another who knows how many more years between now and then is just sad.
 

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