Freep: Expected Holland moves during off-season?

[FlashyG]

He won't and should not get fired, there are worse GM's. But I do think he should move into Jimmy D's seat and move some new blood into his chair, the GM chair could use some new blood as well as the roster.

Change for change's sake is always a terrible idea.

Holland has had a grand total of 0 unsuccessful seasons as a GM, and Babcock hasn't had one as a Wings coach either.

Neither he or Babcock should be moved out of their current positions unless they no longer want them.

There is/was a ton of "New Blood" on the Wings roster this year, and our prospect pool is arguably the deepest its ever been in the teams history.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Anyone could have predicted this..Holland considers this season a success even though the Wings have looked worse than they have in over 20 years. I don't expect the Wings to win or contend for the Cup every year but I do expect them to be in the process of building the next Cup winner if they aren't.

I don't see it, Holland seems to think putting out a low seed fringe playoff team is okay as long as there's a couple guys under 30 on it so you can point to the "young guys" even if none of those young guys look like guys who will pick up the slack from our ageing stars or those already departed (Rafalski, Lidstrom).

 

[JPE123]

The regular season was nearly a disaster save the last week. We showed well in playoffs but we go into next year standing pat while everyone else improves and we'll be outside looking in.

And Sammy is a bust out- admit it Holland and take your lumps.

Bert has given us some solid hockey and if he's 100% healthy I'm okay keeping him around.

Watch him give Fils $5 mm to lay down.

 

[TheOtherOne]

I think you guys are hilarious.

We've just proved that we have a team that is capable of beating 2 of the top teams in the league (one single lucky bounce would have put us in the WCF). While icing 5 rookies. Who are only going to get better. And another with a broken thumb who looked solid in the short time he had.

But don't worry about any of that. Our organization is obviously a huge ****-up that can't do anything right. Oh lordie how I wish we would just blow it all up and compete with the BJs and Oil for a few years.

 

[Flowah]

We were also a lucky bounce away from missing the playoffs. Or from having a six game exit.

Talking about lucky bounces is kind of dumb. No one is doom and glooming this organization. Just pointing out that this team could be way stronger if they just used their developed prospects better.

And Holland's statements give cause to worry that misuse will continue into the future.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Well Tatar will be awesome in the KHL

 

[FlashyG]

Anyone could have predicted this..Holland considers this season a success even though the Wings have looked worse than they have in over 20 years. I don't expect the Wings to win or contend for the Cup every year but I do expect them to be in the process of building the next Cup winner if they aren't.

I don't see it, Holland seems to think putting out a low seed fringe playoff team is okay as long as there's a couple guys under 30 on it so you can point to the "young guys" even if none of those young guys look like guys who will pick up the slack from our ageing stars or those already departed (Rafalski, Lidstrom).

This season was a success.

We are rebuilding and still managed to come within a single win of making the conference finals while playing the 2 best teams in the conference, and possibly the best team in the league.

Our prospect pool is stacked and we played more rookies this season than everyone but Ottawa.

 

[Winger98]

Tatar will be fine. We're going into the season with Bertuzzi, Franzen, Sammy, Helm, Eaves and an aging Datsyuk. There will be injuries. A bunch of prospects will likely see time with the Wings next year.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Tatar will be fine. We're going into the season with Bertuzzi, Franzen, Sammy, Helm, Eaves and an aging Datsyuk. There will be injuries. A bunch of prospects will likely see time with the Wings next year.

We shouldn't be relying on injuries for Tatar to be playing. That's ridiculous.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

why would anyone equate moving away from a veteran or two and replacing them with solid young prospects as being equal to cbj or edmonton?

i really dont get that whatsoever

sammy or bert had 0% positive effect on our success this season and nor are they any part of our longterm success

we can and will be successful by maintaining a healthy veteran/rookie mix as zetterberg, datsyuk, kronwall and franzen can, do and wil provide that veteran leadership. However thats the sole extent of veteran leadership this team needs and that was proven over the last 6 weeks

 

[ScottyBowman]

What a joke. Bertuzzi should retire for his sake because of his bad back. He is done. Sammy is finished too. He plays 1 game and is out 30.

Ok on to reality. Brunner disappointed me big time in the playoffs. He is horrible on the boards and he avoids all contact. I'll give him another chance next year but he is not one for physical hockey.

Lastly, Holland needs to realize that the East is a bigger conference and if we go around with all these midgets, we will get physically destroyed. He needs to get some size and a 40 year old Bertuzzi with a bad back is NOT the answer.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

What a joke. Bertuzzi should retire for his sake because of his bad back. He is done. Sammy is finished too. He plays 1 game and is out 30.

Ok on to reality. Brunner disappointed me big time in the playoffs. He is horrible on the boards and he avoids all contact. I'll give him another chance next year but he is not one for physical hockey.

Lastly, Holland needs to realize that the East is a bigger conference and if we go around with all these midgets, we will get physically destroyed. He needs to get some size and a 40 year old Bertuzzi with a bad back is NOT the answer.

Brunner was arguably our best goal scorer in the playoffs. Give him a full NHL off-season and more time to improve the grit aspect of his game and he becomes a very solid player for us.

 

[Chris 84]

The best thing would have been if that streak of 21 straight playoff appearences broke, that would send serious signals to management.

if you (and whoever agrees with you) actually wants the wings to lose then you aren't proper fans. we were 1 game away from a conference final and if we'd beaten the top team in the league as we nearly did, we could have beaten anyone. i'm proud of our streak, proud that we try to be contenders and pleased with how things are shaping up. it isn't like we can do anything drastic anyway with the cap in place. we tried to get the big guns via free agency last summer, but there are none really this year. trades are all well and good in theory, but in practice it is usually pretty hard to get a top player via a trade.

now i don't want to see sammy, cleary, bertuzzi and co all back here and i certainly don't want a situation where tatar is traded because he's a spare part, but i'm never going to hope the team fails.

 

[Yzerberg]

Tatar, as a Wing, will be fine. The Wings like him. He'll make his way into the lineup. That's what the OP is all about. A homegrown team. The reactionary posts that imply we all know how good he is while the Wings have no idea, or don't care, and will let him waste away are just a weeeeee bit silly.

As for the article, it is no surprise. And, unlike many, I don't say that with disgruntled undertones. This team has a lot of talented youth. Continue growing it. I don't think there are any especially interesting UFAs on the market this year who won't be re-signed before July 1 anyway. It'd be nice to get a top-pairing defenseman, but there aren't any available to be signed. Kronwall, Ericsson, Quincey, Smith, Dekeyser, Kindl, Colaiacovo, Lashoff.... it's a committee; a balanced group of experience and young talent. Let it grow.

Totally agree with this post.

There's not a single UFA that I'm interested in overpaying for. A year of experience and playing together will help more than throwing money at Horton or Clarkson. I'd be surprised to see any major signing unless a buyout refugee unexpectedly falls into our lap.

 

[Yzerberg]

What a joke. Bertuzzi should retire for his sake because of his bad back. He is done. Sammy is finished too. He plays 1 game and is out 30.

Ok on to reality. Brunner disappointed me big time in the playoffs. He is horrible on the boards and he avoids all contact. I'll give him another chance next year but he is not one for physical hockey.

Lastly, Holland needs to realize that the East is a bigger conference and if we go around with all these midgets, we will get physically destroyed. He needs to get some size and a 40 year old Bertuzzi with a bad back is NOT the answer.

Sooner or later Bert is going to have to cut a check so I doubt he goes anywhere as long as there's an NHL team that will pay him.

I don't understand all the love Brunner gets here. He's probably already reached his ceiling-a middle six winger who can score 20ish goals and about as physical as a daisy. I like him the way Babcock used him but to think he's going to get stronger or faster or much better at his age is fantasy. I hope they don't think he's a 5 million a year player after a nice half season.

 

[Xvash2]

Only 1 team in the NHL played its rookies more than the Wings this year. Would you prefer they just play only rookies.

1/3 of the roster this season were 1st or 2nd year players.

That's because all of the veterans were injured since they are old and broken.

 

[probertrules24]

I think this is just Malik and Holland getting together and thinking hey lets go fire up all those predictable guys on HF.

Holland and management have been very clear and transparent with their plan. They have stated they will not be overspending and will be hoarding their picks/prospects to build within. It's been pretty evident to those that look at the guys who played this year. 21 guys either drafted or signed and have only played for the Wings.

They are sticking to their plan that they believe will keep them competitive every year and not have to suck just to rebuild. Some people look at these other teams that are good right now and see the talent but they forget about the crap years when they were missing the playoffs year after year.

I read in another post that all of Hollands moves didn't work. I will admit I would of loved him to go out and make some moves but I can understand the reasoning why.

It seems some posters just want to make a move to make one. They could care less the long term affect. They had 9 guys play this year that would of been rookies or still will be rookies. They are grooming guys that will end up being part of our core and future. Brining these guys up are moves by Holland as well.

It is funny how predictable the comments and who is posting them are. It's pretty obvious as a fan base we are pretty divided. For some there is nothing Holland can do and others are fine with letting him try to right the ship.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The hallmark of denial is clinging to the exception rather than accepting the general trend. Now, people will go on about how we *nearly* did this or that, what, do you want to put up banners of *nearly* having won something.

Here's the reality: This team barely made the playoffs this year and then went out in the 2nd round and nobody will give a damn a year from now that they won 3 games against Chicago.

And next year? This team could easily be worse than this year. If a GM points to Mikael Samuelsson getting healthy as being a sign of future improvement then you know you're in trouble.

And yeeah we played rookies like Andersson, Nyquist, Smith, Lashoff and Brunner. But those guys aren't a Cup winner core any time soon (probably never) and with the old core declining and on their way out this team looks poised for mediocrity.

 

[Brodie]

This season was a success.

We are rebuilding and still managed to come within a single win of making the conference finals while playing the 2 best teams in the conference, and possibly the best team in the league.

Our prospect pool is stacked and we played more rookies this season than everyone but Ottawa.

Yeah, we're "rebuilding". By doing nothing. Not even buying out trash like Sammuelson

 

[Heaton]

Yeah, we're "rebuilding". By doing nothing. Not even buying out trash like Sammuelson

You're not talking about rebuilding, you're talking about reloading. The Wings are definitely rebuilding by playing DeKeyser, Smith, Kindl, Brunner, Nyquist, Andersson, Lashoff etc... I get the point that this wasn't by design, but who really cares? It happened.

I think Holland needs to reload as well, and dumping Cleary, Samuelsson and Bertuzzi is what should be done. But this team is definitely rebuilding whether it's the 'right' way or not is debatable.

 

[probertrules24]

The hallmark of denial is clinging to the exception rather than accepting the general trend. Now, people will go on about how we *nearly* did this or that, what, do you want to put up banners of *nearly* having won something.

The denial could also be those who believed they weren't a playoff team and weren't willing to admit they were.

 

[jaster]

Anyone could have predicted this..Holland considers this season a success even though the Wings have looked worse than they have in over 20 years. I don't expect the Wings to win or contend for the Cup every year but I do expect them to be in the process of building the next Cup winner if they aren't.

I don't see it, Holland seems to think putting out a low seed fringe playoff team is okay as long as there's a couple guys under 30 on it so you can point to the "young guys" even if none of those young guys look like guys who will pick up the slack from our ageing stars or those already departed (Rafalski, Lidstrom).

There are 18 players in the mix for regular spots next year who are under 30. More than a couple. Also, 6 are under 25.

Fact is, there is a lot of promising youth. More than just guys in the mix mentioned above, a pretty big farm system as well. Combine that with taking down the #2 seed this year, and taking the #1 seed to OT in game 7, and things really aren't looking so bad to the objective viewer

 

[19 for president]

The Wings are not going to clear cap space just to clear cap space. As much as we'd all like them to buyout Cola, Quincey, Bert, Sammy: they aren't going to do it unless there is a clear reason to do so.

If you give Kindl (2), Emmerton (2.75), Smith (1.5), Nyquist (1.7), and Andersson (1) moderate raises, we still have 3-4 mil left to look for someone.

The only thing Holland says is that he isn't going to make a big deadline deal, which is what we all sort of know and expect.

Now if the Wings can go out and sign a guy like Weiss, Horton, Clarkson, Stalberg Penner, Clowe etc to a decent deal, then maybe they consider buying out a Sammy. They aren't going to pay a guy not to play, however unless they need to.

Remember the Wings can always waive a guy like Emmerton because he makes so little. Right now I think he is backup in case Helm can't play. Andersson has clearly surpassed him on the roster, and makes an overall much better 4th line center if Helm is ready to play next year.

I also fully expect one of Cola or Quincey to be dealt by next season. 2.5 mil is way too much to spend on a 7th dman, especially when the team really likes Lashoff. Both guys played well enough in the playoffs that someone might be interested in them.

I fully expect this team to buy out one player max this season, and keep one for next year in case they need to buy out Franzen.

Now if he resigns Flip, Cleary, Miller etc then it is obvious that he is full of BS when it comes to this team, but as he has yet to do that I'm not worried. Tatar will get a shot at a spot next season or he'll be dealt for a true upgrade. The Wings aren't going to risk losing him as an asset just because. As long as the Wings don't sign any UFAs outside of Brunner they'll be able to carry him on the roster. Bert and Emmerton would be the extras.

I don't expect Z, Franzen, or Dats to really fall apart next season, so they only true guys that might be awful are Sammy and Bert. If that is the case they just get benched again like right now. In contrast Nyquist, Brunner, Smith, Dek, Andersson, Tatar, Abs, Kindl, etc should all continue to improve.

I'll wait to judge this team and Hollands job until at least August. He needs to do some tweaking but this isn't a bad team.

 

[TatarTangle]

There are 18 players in the mix for regular spots next year who are under 30. More than a couple. Also, 6 are under 25.

Fact is, there is a lot of promising youth. More than just guys in the mix mentioned above, a pretty big farm system as well. Combine that with taking down the #2 seed this year, and taking the #1 seed to OT in game 7, and things really aren't looking so bad to the objective viewer

We are all aware of Detroit's farm system, it's promising but 20 years away. But does that objective viewer really believe the Red Wings are a Todd Bertuzzi or Samuelsson away from beating Chicago? Because that's what we are looking at; an 82 game season with Bertuzzi, Samuelsson or Cleary as Detroit's legitimate top 6 winger

 

[Heaton]

We are all aware of Detroit's farm system. But does that objective viewer reallybelieve the Red Wings are a Todd Bertuzzi or Samuelsson away from beating Chicago? Because that's what we are looking at. An 82 game season with Bertuzzi, Samuelsson or Cleary as Detroit's legitimate top 6 winger

I don't think people are putting enough stock into our young players elevating their games. What they see this year is not what they'll get. Kindl will get better, Smith will get better, Nyquist will get better, and so on. We're not a healthy Bertuzzi away from winning, but we're also not a Suter or Parise away either. Our team's success will always rest on how our young players develop. Obviously Holland should make moves to help speed up and prolong that process, but even with a top 4 defensemen and top 6 forward we still go no where without progression of our young guys.