Dion TheFluff
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2015
- 3,891
- 3,338
Speculation: Free Agent Defenceman Targets
- Thread starter Dion TheFluff
- Start date
In our budget, Chris Tanev might be an option.
But honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if our top 6 are the 5 you listed and Liljegren
Dion TheFluff
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2015
- 3,891
- 3,338
The Iceman
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2007
- 5,078
- 3,712
That’s Roman Polak’s music!
Dion TheFluff
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2015
- 3,891
- 3,338
I honestly wouldn't be opposed to trading a package of Kapanen and Liljegren if you can acquire the right guy to fit next to Rielly long term.
The Podium
Registered User
Which ever of Gudas, Hamonic or Tanev gets you the best valued contract
Tanev is probably my #1 choice but I doubt he leaves Vancouver, which is why I voted for Gudas.
Tanev is probably my #1 choice but I doubt he leaves Vancouver, which is why I voted for Gudas.
Dion TheFluff
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2015
- 3,891
- 3,338
Dillon would be perfect if he was a RHS but unfortunately I believe he's only played on the right side sparingly.
Dion TheFluff
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2015
- 3,891
- 3,338
He's from the GTA they may not want to commit to him with having Myers locked up long term
Might be a bit of a romantic notion,
but I saw someone saying if there are compliance buyouts, Philly would consider JVR.
I'd see if JVR fancied a return to Toronto where he had his best years on a discount deal, with the notion we'd pick up TVR too, and they can play together.
Don't know them, but the idea of playing with your sibling in the big league would be an attractive proposition for some.
in addition and ignoring the above fantasy. I think Tanev could be a smart move. Did brill with Rielly previously, and with us still wanting to blood Sandin/Liljegren in, him not being available for 82 games might not hurt too much anyway.
but I saw someone saying if there are compliance buyouts, Philly would consider JVR.
I'd see if JVR fancied a return to Toronto where he had his best years on a discount deal, with the notion we'd pick up TVR too, and they can play together.
Don't know them, but the idea of playing with your sibling in the big league would be an attractive proposition for some.
in addition and ignoring the above fantasy. I think Tanev could be a smart move. Did brill with Rielly previously, and with us still wanting to blood Sandin/Liljegren in, him not being available for 82 games might not hurt too much anyway.
acrobaticgoalie
Registered User
- Jun 18, 2014
- 3,357
- 3,391
My vote is for Edmundson. Big, solid defesively, only 26. Shouldnt be too expensive. Could be that stabilizing presence that Rielly needs. Not sure how much he has played the right side?
it depends. I mean. We have tried to trade for brodie already. That’s confirmed. We also have multiple rumours that we have tried to get tanev for years.
If brodie wants to come here... he’s my bet of these options.
If I had to choose. I would say tanev on a 2 year deal. Or demelo if we really think he can be a steady partner for rielly.
my contract guesses
1.) brodie. 5 x 5
2.) tanev 4 x 3
3.) demelo 3.5 x 4
Dion TheFluff
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2015
- 3,891
- 3,338
I'd be fine with any of those contracts. Moving Kerfoot/Johnsson for a draft pick should open up space.
yep. It would all depend on who would come here.
Tanev:
-30 years old.
-Exact DMan we need... he is proven as a top pair RHD who works well with a puck mover
-wife’s home is a 3 hr drive from TO.
-he has a house here
cons: INJURY and age.
2.) brodie.
- top pair D who plays on the right side.
-little injury history.
- family from here on both sides.
-dubas style PMD....
cons:
-rumor he put us on NTC. The same reporters have suggested he didn’t want to move halfway through the season with a young kid. And suggested trades at deadline and offseason
- wife has MS and might want a warmer climate
-he is the closest thing to a gardiner type.
Demelo:
- a tanev type without the injury history.
- he is from here and family wanted to settle in Ottawa.
-27.
cons: little track record to provide big contract.
So of those 3 it’s tough to decide....
Tanev has the pedigree but an injury history
Demelo has the style and age but not the track record.
Brodie has the age and track record but not the ideal style and is lefty
Mickey Marner
Registered User
With the current situation - after Barrie and Ceci leave - the Leafs' presumably have Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren (Marincin and Rosen). There are several major problems with this. Probably too many to fix with in the current cap situation.
Experience, grit, meanness, the ability to clear the front of the net and break the cycle. They have very little of any of that.
There is also the ongoing partner for Rielly problem which will require the Leafs to find a 1RD and the salary that will come with that. I personally think that the organization plans to solve the Rielly problem shifting him to the right side and going back to Muzzin - Rielly. They worked well together. We didn't see them at all this season, but the Leafs had Barrie, Ceci and Holl on the right and they without injuries on the right side until after Rielly was already out. I have been planning to go back and watch those games in early 2019 when the two played together, but haven't had the chance.
That potentially creates:
Muzzin - Rielly
Dermott - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren
But that leaves two pairs with almost no experience. Generally when people talk about experience they talk about the need to have a cup winner or two on your team to help know what it takes to go all the way. Certainly important, and the Leafs have Muzzin on D (and Clifford on F if he re-signs).
But there is a lot more to experience. Those 6 D have a total of 1373 games of experience (Muzzin - 579, Rielly - 517, Dermott - 157, Holl - 81, Sandin - 28, Liljegren - 11).
If you look at the top-6 in terms of playoff ice time for the last 10 Cup champs the average number of regular season games experience their top-6 had was 2881 games played. The lowest - the 2012 Kings had 2202 games played. Experience matters. The Leafs' D doesn't have it.
Plenty of those cup winners had a D in their top-6 with minimal NHL experience. Some had two. But four? Most of those teams had someone on their bottom pairing with around 900 games or more, and the 2015 Hawks had Timonen and Rozsival as a bottom pairing with 1998 games experience between them.
The other problem with lack of experience is the difficulty in bringing young D into your lineup. The Leafs' D pipeline is almost all the same type of D - small puck movers - Sandin, Liljegren, Hollowell, Duzsak, Lindgren etc. Their D-core is not set up to successfully bring those D into the lineup.
Over the years I have looked at young D being brought into NHL lineups going back to 2007/08 (the first year naturalstattrick gives TOI of teammates) and the types of partners placed with young D is what everyone should expect: experienced, or big/mean, or experienced and big/mean.
For instance, the top two D in the calder vote in 2008 were Enstrom and Niskanen. The former was partnered with 34-year-old Havelid and the latter split his time between 37-year-old Zubov and 36-year-old Norstrom. The two D in the calder vote the following season were Doughty and Bogosian. The former was partnered with 37-year-old O'Donnell and the latter was partnered with 39-year-old Schneider (in both of those cases those extremely experienced D were specifically signed to partner with those 18-year old rookies).
I have little expectation, based on history, and having watched them this season, that Sandin/Liljegren, Sandin/Holl, Sandin/Dermott, Dermott/Liljegren, Rosen/Liljegren, Holl/Liljegren etc will be any more than a complete waste of development.
In my view that either means 2 relatively cheap signings or a signing and a trade. Only two of Dermott, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren should be in the lineup.
This should also be the case if they keep Muzzin-Holl together and looked for a 1RD to play with Rielly. Then only one of Dermott, Sandin, Liljegren should be on the third pairing and the other D should be someone with the experience to help their development.
Experience, grit, meanness, the ability to clear the front of the net and break the cycle. They have very little of any of that.
There is also the ongoing partner for Rielly problem which will require the Leafs to find a 1RD and the salary that will come with that. I personally think that the organization plans to solve the Rielly problem shifting him to the right side and going back to Muzzin - Rielly. They worked well together. We didn't see them at all this season, but the Leafs had Barrie, Ceci and Holl on the right and they without injuries on the right side until after Rielly was already out. I have been planning to go back and watch those games in early 2019 when the two played together, but haven't had the chance.
That potentially creates:
Muzzin - Rielly
Dermott - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren
But that leaves two pairs with almost no experience. Generally when people talk about experience they talk about the need to have a cup winner or two on your team to help know what it takes to go all the way. Certainly important, and the Leafs have Muzzin on D (and Clifford on F if he re-signs).
But there is a lot more to experience. Those 6 D have a total of 1373 games of experience (Muzzin - 579, Rielly - 517, Dermott - 157, Holl - 81, Sandin - 28, Liljegren - 11).
If you look at the top-6 in terms of playoff ice time for the last 10 Cup champs the average number of regular season games experience their top-6 had was 2881 games played. The lowest - the 2012 Kings had 2202 games played. Experience matters. The Leafs' D doesn't have it.
Plenty of those cup winners had a D in their top-6 with minimal NHL experience. Some had two. But four? Most of those teams had someone on their bottom pairing with around 900 games or more, and the 2015 Hawks had Timonen and Rozsival as a bottom pairing with 1998 games experience between them.
The other problem with lack of experience is the difficulty in bringing young D into your lineup. The Leafs' D pipeline is almost all the same type of D - small puck movers - Sandin, Liljegren, Hollowell, Duzsak, Lindgren etc. Their D-core is not set up to successfully bring those D into the lineup.
Over the years I have looked at young D being brought into NHL lineups going back to 2007/08 (the first year naturalstattrick gives TOI of teammates) and the types of partners placed with young D is what everyone should expect: experienced, or big/mean, or experienced and big/mean.
For instance, the top two D in the calder vote in 2008 were Enstrom and Niskanen. The former was partnered with 34-year-old Havelid and the latter split his time between 37-year-old Zubov and 36-year-old Norstrom. The two D in the calder vote the following season were Doughty and Bogosian. The former was partnered with 37-year-old O'Donnell and the latter was partnered with 39-year-old Schneider (in both of those cases those extremely experienced D were specifically signed to partner with those 18-year old rookies).
I have little expectation, based on history, and having watched them this season, that Sandin/Liljegren, Sandin/Holl, Sandin/Dermott, Dermott/Liljegren, Rosen/Liljegren, Holl/Liljegren etc will be any more than a complete waste of development.
In my view that either means 2 relatively cheap signings or a signing and a trade. Only two of Dermott, Holl, Sandin, Liljegren should be in the lineup.
This should also be the case if they keep Muzzin-Holl together and looked for a 1RD to play with Rielly. Then only one of Dermott, Sandin, Liljegren should be on the third pairing and the other D should be someone with the experience to help their development.
Matthews4Calder
Registered User
Golden_Jet
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2005
- 22,748
- 11,099
Dion TheFluff
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2015
- 3,891
- 3,338
MagicalRazor
Registered User
- Oct 25, 2016
- 1,522
- 592
that 7.25 million sinks due to raises for campbell, muzzin, holl and engvall. the leafs only have 4.5 million dollars of cap space and a 17 man roster next season. we'd have to move out at least 3 decently paid players if we sign one of the free agent top-4 defenders
