Burke more or less dismantled the entire organization a few years back to rebuild it from the ground up, and after picking 5th and 8th overall in the last two drafts, we're still very much in the process of doing that. I really don't think we're in any way positioned to be tossing away young assets for a short-term gain. Didn't people already learn from the Kessel trade, etc. that you can't fast-forward these things? At least in Kessel's case it was for a 23 year-old player trending upward and not a declining 30 year-old a year away from looking for a fat retirement contract.
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Percy and Rielly make Gardiner expandable. So I would do the following:
1st + Gardiner + Holland for Staal
-------------------
JVR - Staal - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Booth
Komarov - Bozak - Clarkson
Winnik - Santorelli - Kozun
Phaneuf - Robidas
Rielly - Franson
Percy - Polak
Bernier
Reimer
Now that look much much better.
1st + Gardiner + Holland for Staal
-------------------
JVR - Staal - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Booth
Komarov - Bozak - Clarkson
Winnik - Santorelli - Kozun
Phaneuf - Robidas
Rielly - Franson
Percy - Polak
Bernier
Reimer
Now that look much much better.
613Leafer
Registered User
- May 26, 2008
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With the new changes to the draft lottery coming in 2016 (all top 3 picks are given out via lottery), id be very hesitant to move any 1st rounder from now on, unless the team had proven itself to be a consistent upper-tier playoff team, and had at least a good farm system in place.
Id only be interested in E. Staal in a hockey trade, similar to the Eriksson++ for Seguin+ trade. Maybe something around Phaneuf + Bozak as an example.
These are the only types of trades we should be making IMO, other than selling off pending UFAs at the deadline if the playoffs are clearly out of reach. No young players or 1st round picks for older, declining players.
The CyNick
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Why does Carolina give away their franchise player and the only actual body they get back is a guy who has been in our press box.
People on here are the worst for trade suggestions. Try to make a deal where you feel Carolina gets the better end, that's probably closer to what it takes. Carolina is going to likely ask for a first, Morgan, and either Nylander or Kadri.
We may counter with Gardiner plus Kadri. But they likely say no thanks and call the 10 other teams looking for a number one centre.
I like Staal, but i wouldn't give up multiple young assets or picks for him. Rather just see this organization continue to build slowly.
The CyNick
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Carolina is in tank mode. If they are giving up on Eric, they will want a couple young assets that they can sell in their market. Dion and Bozak are not those types of players. Also if they are trading Staal they likely are looking to shed salary.
When's the last time a star player has ever gone for one these ridiculous returns people always propose on here? Eric Lindros?
Tyler Seguin didn't even garner a return equivalent to Kadri + Gardiner. Why the hell would a 30 year-old, $8.25M Eric Staal?
Tyler Seguin didn't even garner a return equivalent to Kadri + Gardiner. Why the hell would a 30 year-old, $8.25M Eric Staal?
Igy
Registered User
- Mar 3, 2011
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JVR and Kessel are both 25 and 27 respectively. Lupul and Phaneuf are 31 and 29 respectively. They are not getting any younger, and it sure would be a shame to waste their prime years in this "rebuild". I am not suggesting to trade away all of our youth for older players, but our core isn't as young as some of you think. Either go into a full rebuild and trade everyone for picks and prospects, or put together a team that actually has a chance in the playoffs. I'm sick of watching a team without a direction.
I like the idea of Staal, as he really isn't that old at 29, and I think a change of scenery will bring him back to PPG seasons for a few more years. Ideally we should target someone around Kessel's age, but the cost would be much more than Staal.
I like the idea of Staal, as he really isn't that old at 29, and I think a change of scenery will bring him back to PPG seasons for a few more years. Ideally we should target someone around Kessel's age, but the cost would be much more than Staal.
SprDaVE
Moderator
- Sep 20, 2008
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Anybody up for a trade with Edmonton? I'm thinking dangling Gardiner as the main piece would be interesting. Eakins knows him well and also he was the teammate of Schultz in Wisconsin and apparently are/were good friends.
Petry has been a healthy scratch but I think he's at least a solid bottom pairing defender... and he shoots right. He's a UFA at the end of the year, so obviously his value is nowhere near someone like Gardiner. But he could be one of the pieces in the deal.
I'm not sure exactly what other kind of pieces Edmonton would be willing to let go though, or even what kind of pieces would make sense to us. Probably not much of a deal to made there but could be interesting.
Petry has been a healthy scratch but I think he's at least a solid bottom pairing defender... and he shoots right. He's a UFA at the end of the year, so obviously his value is nowhere near someone like Gardiner. But he could be one of the pieces in the deal.
I'm not sure exactly what other kind of pieces Edmonton would be willing to let go though, or even what kind of pieces would make sense to us. Probably not much of a deal to made there but could be interesting.
TheCLAM
Registered User
mcleex
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SprDaVE
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They don't need NHL quality defenders? Could have fooled me.
A defender like Gardiner at least can drive possession and create chances, even if he is average defensively. Oilers don't have many that can do that at all other then perhaps Schultz, who's been terrible himself.
TheCLAM
Registered User
It's not that unrealisitic to think both could go the other way for Eric Staal. The Leafs may want a specific player/prospect to be included in the deal as well. Eric Staal could play at a high level for the next 5 years atleast, 29 is a prime-time age. You aren't always lucky enough to draft a center and have the for a decade.
The core of our team is aging each and every year. You can only "build" a team for so long before making a big move to change your future, a center like Eric Staal could make us a legitimate team in the East.
Sure, but usually that move comes when you're already a 'legitimate' team and can afford to part with young assets to improve in the short-term and take a run at the Cup, not when you've almost invariably drafted in the top ten for half a decade and most of your best players are 25 or younger.
613Leafer
Registered User
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We finished 1 point ahead of them last season. Why are they full tank mode and we're full trade away futures mode?
SprDaVE
Moderator
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They are trending downwards and we are trending upwards... slowly but it's still upwards. I mean the Islanders just sold a few picks and prospects to get 2 defenders and they finished below us in the standings... should we tell them they made bad moves?
I'd love to trade for Staal but it's not going to happen. Too pricey, both in terms of cap space and in terms of trade value, and like you said, we are not quite at the point of trading 1st round picks or even young potential players. Maybe in the summer if everything goes right.
The CyNick
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TheCLAM
Registered User
He`s less than average defensively, on a Leafs team that has a better defense. You think going to Edmonton is going to make him look any better than he is now.
Gardiner regardless of his 5 year contract is very much a question mark right now. We literally have no idea if he will breakout and become a 40+ point defenseman, or strictly a bottom pairing PP guy. There`s no meritt for Toronto to move Gardiner as realistically he has more value to us, than to a team like Edmonton. If I`m profiling your views based on the idea of trading Gardiner you must not value him too much if you are willing to accept a depth deal based around Petry++.
Commander Clueless
Hiya, hiya. Pleased to meetcha.
- Sep 10, 2008
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JVR's still on the cusp of youthhood, but I understand your point perfectly.
The "time" for the Leafs core is fast approaching. Not necessarily this year, but the near future. Do they have a good enough foundation for a shot at the Cup? Well, time will tell.
In this sense, acquiring an almost 30 year old centre does make sense.
Either that, or we may need to look at selling again in the near future. Not this year, necessarily, but it is a decision that is fast approaching.
Unfortunately, acquiring said centre will undoubtedly cost us youth. I understand the hesitation of those proposing a rebuilding the rebuild scenario now.
The time of the Leafs being based around a "young" core is slipping away. Not gone yet, but almost.
TheCLAM
Registered User
Agreed.. It`s the same old stuff every year, acquiring a center like Staal will legitimately give us a center that we`ve craved since the departure of Sundin. There still will be a focus to get a quality secondary winger, however I feel that we may already have that in our prospect pool (Nylander, Brown, Leivo). I feel that a 1C, top 2D could very well push us over the edge and make us contenders in the East.
Since when did 29 become the new 40? By the way some people are talking you'd think he's on the verge of retirement.
- He's consistently healthy
- has averaged 70 points a year the last 5 years
- #1 C with size, and two way play
People look at his point totals last year and think he's done. He was on one of the 1st teams in the league talent wise. His line mates at their best was TLUSTY and SEMIN. Yet still put up 60 points. Imagine what he'd do with JVR and Kessel?
- He's consistently healthy
- has averaged 70 points a year the last 5 years
- #1 C with size, and two way play
People look at his point totals last year and think he's done. He was on one of the 1st teams in the league talent wise. His line mates at their best was TLUSTY and SEMIN. Yet still put up 60 points. Imagine what he'd do with JVR and Kessel?
Longshot
Registered User
Same old Leafs. Start throwing away young assets in an effort to get a 30-year-old player that is closer to the back nine of his career than his prime.
What exactly would be the point of getting Stall at this point in his career?
At their best the Leafs are a fringe playoff team this season. For argument's sake let's say a package of Kadri plus Rielly or Percy or Gardiner and draft picks lands them Stall.
Then what? They're still a fringe playoff team. The trade has done nothing to solve their biggest problem - goals against.
What exactly would be the point of getting Stall at this point in his career?
At their best the Leafs are a fringe playoff team this season. For argument's sake let's say a package of Kadri plus Rielly or Percy or Gardiner and draft picks lands them Stall.
Then what? They're still a fringe playoff team. The trade has done nothing to solve their biggest problem - goals against.
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