GDT: Free agency madness, brought to you by the letter G

[bert]

One thing in question is the degree to which the 7 or 8 guys were involved. Maybe a guy like Batherson walked in on the "proceedings" and after seeing what was happening walked back out. Depending on what was happening at that time he certainly would have knowledge of the event but certainly not the degree of what was transpiring. Hard to put out a statement if that is the case.

That's why it's irresponsible to stroke everyone with the same brush . There are so many scenarios out there (ranging from horrible to irresponsible but not worth losing your entire career over) that we simply don't know. The whole and entire truth needs to come out. I personally think there will end up being 1 to 3 fall guys. Whether that's accurate right or wrong who knows but the people and the MP that brought this to lite want their pound of flesh.

 

[bert]

Have you seen the social media posts about them being rapists

Or the main board.

Staying silent in the immediate aftermath of this coming to light and letting the investigation play out is a reasonable strategy.

Look, these players will either be charged and arrested by law enforcement, implicated and punished by the NHL, or cleared. Whether they say something now or not, it won't change what happens in the coming weeks and months.

If Batherson is implicated, it won't matter that he didn't make a statement this week. If he's cleared, it also won't matter that he didn't make a statement this week.

I know we live in an age where everyone needs to make an instant judgement, but that's just not how these things work, or should work. And honestly, based on the tenor of many posts, most fans don't seem to actually care about getting justice for the alleged victim. They don't care about how she wants this resolved. They just want to clear their own conscience about who they cheer for.



I would imagine all of these players have communicated with their families and closest friends, but they wouldn't do that through public channels. They'd just, you know, talk to them directly. I also don't find it hard to believe that many of them wouldn't give two shits about what people are saying on Twitter or HFBoards.

Accurate post through and through. The bolded is where this is all driven from. Hockey Canada is clearly the biggest issue here. It's built a culture where this is acceptable and they even have planning/funding for an instance where thus occurs. This isn't the only time this has happened. Clearly. Yet somehow HC isnt the main target.... Alot of the vitriol towards the players is built around a self serving need for people to feel moral superiority. Typically because they are dealing with their own insecurities. When looking at this as a big picture there are heads that need to role at the top. While what occurred is clearly inexcusable, this culture is ingrained early in the players that come up through the program.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

feels like unless the criminal investigation finds something before that they didnt, the names wont ever come out?

Isn’t there an NDA involved with the settlement. I’m not sure how the names can come other than personal leaks.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Tyler Steenbergen just put out a statement denying involvement. Are the two Sens players really going to be the last two to even acknowledge it happened (if they even do)? It's only Batherson, Formenton, and Mcleod now who have been radio silent.

And no, I know a statement doesn't mean they're innocent.

There were 8 involved in this. Only 3 left to make a statement. I think that says everything about what the weight these statements carry…basically zero.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The fact that there was entire investigation by the police certainly changes some things. The way this story was first reported was that hockey Canada paid off this girl to be quiet ASAP. Seems like this was all given its due process and the names were rightfully not released.

Instead of the joirnalist revealing that an investigation and no criminal charges laid out took place, they reported that a settlement had been reached with Hockey Canada over it. Which is fine, thats journalism. But a settlement does not mean guilty.

 

[JD1]

The fact that there was entire investigation by the police certainly changes some things. The way this story was first reported was that hockey Canada paid off this girl to be quiet ASAP. Seems like this was all given its due process and the names were rightfully not released.

Instead of the joirnalist revealing that an investigation and no criminal charges laid out took place, they reported that a settlement had been reached with Hockey Canada over it. Which is fine, thats journalism. But a settlement does not mean guilty.

Maybe I am wrong, but my understanding is the day HC was made aware of the allegations they informed the London police. They also engaged a law firm to investigate. Before the law firm finished the investigation, the police finished theirs having spoken to the players but not having spoken to the young lady because she refused to do so, they closed the investigation. No charges laid. The law firm closed their investigation in light of no charges being laid.

Is that correct?

If it is, then the only way that this changes is if the woman brings forth evidence to the police that results in them moving forward with charges.

The optics of this aren't great. But it's a lot of ink spilt if charges aren't brought forward. I also wonder if political pressure will lead to charges in a situation where they otherwise wouldn't be

 

[Masked]

The fact that there was entire investigation by the police certainly changes some things. The way this story was first reported was that hockey Canada paid off this girl to be quiet ASAP. Seems like this was all given its due process and the names were rightfully not released.

Instead of the joirnalist revealing that an investigation and no criminal charges laid out took place, they reported that a settlement had been reached with Hockey Canada over it. Which is fine, thats journalism. But a settlement does not mean guilty.

That's the take that makes no sense to me. The people who claim that since HC settled the case, the players must be guilty. We know what the woman was asked for but do we even know how much the case was settled for?

Even if 8 players had consensual relations with the woman, the optics of that alone are terrible for the players and HC. They'd settle just to keep that story out of an open courtroom. .Settling doesn't make the players guilty. It means it was worth more to HC to settle than to take it to court

And ultimately it isn't HC that is causing many young hockey players to become badly behaved men. It is our society that puts people on a pedestal who excel at the sports we love. And Canada isn't alone in this. It happens in other countries too.

Assen na yo!

 

[BankStreetParade]

I worked for a company that had some pretty serious sexual harassment claims come up on social media against some of their employees which turned into a more open discussion about their overall practices and all the shady shit that was going on. They contacted the police and hired a law firm to conduct an "independent third-party investigation". Neither of them turned up any wrongdoing. The company concluded it with the usual "we didn't know this was going on" blah blah blah "thank you for your cooperation" blah blah blah "we regret these allegations which were unfounded" blah blah blah.

A couple of months later, diligent investigative journalism uncovered mountains of sexual harassment claims, a culture of victim-blaming and silencing, moving harassers around between locations (often management or senior employees), wage theft, bullying, unsafe work standards and tens of millions owed to contractors and suppliers.

All that to say, the police are often useless because they use tactics that scare/intimidate people - especially anyone who could be considered vulnerable in their situation - and "independent" law firms may as well be the "anonymous suggestion box in your break room" of self-investigating wrongdoing.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Maybe I am wrong, but my understanding is the day HC was made aware of the allegations they informed the London police. ...

I had read that it was the victim's mother who went to the police, the day after the alleged assault.

I assume that the London police then contacted HC and informed them... although I am not sure whether this would have been through an official or unofficial channel.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I worked for a company that had some pretty serious sexual harassment claims come up on social media against some of their employees which turned into a more open discussion about their overall practices and all the shady shit that was going on. They contacted the police and hired a law firm to conduct an "independent third-party investigation". Neither of them turned up any wrongdoing. The company concluded it with the usual "we didn't know this was going on" blah blah blah "thank you for your cooperation" blah blah blah "we regret these allegations which were unfounded" blah blah blah.

A couple of months later, diligent investigative journalism uncovered mountains of sexual harassment claims, a culture of victim-blaming and silencing, moving harassers around between locations (often management or senior employees), wage theft, bullying, unsafe work standards and tens of millions owed to contractors and suppliers.

All that to say, the police are often useless because they use tactics that scare/intimidate people - especially anyone who could be considered vulnerable in their situation - and "independent" law firms may as well be the "anonymous suggestion box in your break room" of self-investigating wrongdoing.

Yeah. True. Settlement doesn’t mean guilty and “police laid no charges” doesn’t mean innocent.

 

[kellmuff96]

Isn’t there an NDA involved with the settlement. I’m not sure how the names can come other than personal leaks.

NDA's can be broken. And I think we're already seeing pressure from the gov't to undo it.

 

[Masked]

I had read that it was the victim's mother who went to the police, the day after the alleged assault.

I assume that the London police then contacted HC and informed them... although I am not sure whether this would have been through an official or unofficial channel.

That's what the alleged victim texted John Doe #1. That her mother went to the police. Whether she was telling the truth about that is not known.

According to an article by The Athletic today, HC was contacted by the alleged victim's stepfather the day of the incident and then HC went to the police.

Assen na yo!

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

That's what the alleged victim texted John Doe #1. That her mother went to the police. Whether she was telling the truth about that is not known.

According to an article by The Athletic today, HC was contacted by the alleged victim's stepfather the day of the incident and then HC went to the police.

Assen na yo!

Okay I haven't seen that story in the Athletic. My info came from the stories in the G&M from about 3 days ago.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I mean you could just read the allegations like everyone else instead of postulating Hockey Canada paid out millions in a settlement to close out a case where some players looked at a naked girl

Interesting points of discussion in here…

It should be noted that it has also been alleged that HC did not even know who the players were, nor did they seek them out for investigation before settling with the young lady, and that was after the police determined that there wasn’t enough evidence to proceed with charges. It is such a weird series of decisions by HC. She apparently didn’t want to involve the players or the police, but wanted a settlement, HC apparently was fine with that.

Her apparent willingness to talk to police this time around may provide new avenues of investigation as we’ll see.

From the sounds of it not all of the 7 people engaged in sex activities, so perhaps there was some element of watching, but in the end I thing this will come down to consent, and whether it was reasonable for those involved to believe that there was consent.

Objectively this is an interesting case as it unfolds.

 

[Samboni]

There was a similar situation that occurred in Thunder Bay a few years back involving members of the University of Ottawa hockey team. The entire team was suspended for a year or so as a result.

University of Ottawa Hockey Team Suspended After Sexual Assault Allegations

University of Ottawa announced the suspension of its entire men's hockey team Monday, amid allegations that multiple members of the team engaged in a gang sexual assault of an unknown woman...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

 

[slamigo]

There was a similar situation that occurred in Thunder Bay a few years back involving members of the University of Ottawa hockey team. The entire team was suspended for a year or so as a result.

University of Ottawa Hockey Team Suspended After Sexual Assault Allegations

University of Ottawa announced the suspension of its entire men's hockey team Monday, amid allegations that multiple members of the team engaged in a gang sexual assault of an unknown woman...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

Eerily similar. Is this a thing in hockey? WTF?

Also, two players from that team were charged and later found not-guilty due to the judge finding the victim unreliable.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/guillaume-donovan-david-foucher-verdict-1.4717857

 

[Cosmix]

First thing I'll say is that when you're a sports/entertainment attorney actual legal defense and representation is only part of your job. The other part of your job is giving advice to your client and counselling them on things like PR and reputation (often with the help of third party consultants).

I'm not taking anything as gospel. I'm saying that any player that was not involved or not present should be saying so in the current environment and with the facts as they are. That is the absolute best thing for them to do from a PR standpoint as an expectation has developed that silence = presence.

Saying "I didn't engage in any wrongdoing" is not the same thing. It implies that the speaker was in fact involved but that they believe they did nothing wrong (i.e., the sex act was consensual). That's really no better than silence at this point because most people are not willing to entertain the "it was totally consensual" angle. You were either in that room taking part or you weren't. If you were involved, folks are not going to be sympathetic to an argument that things were consensual. Thus, silence.

I suppose there is another option : The person was in the room or present at the motel but did not participate in any activity related to the allegations, not just did not do any wrong due to belief it was consensual.

In any event, this must play out in the formal investigations being conducted and legal proceedings that may take place.

Since I have no knowledge of who did what to whom, I have no opinion on this specific case.

There was a similar situation that occurred in Thunder Bay a few years back involving members of the University of Ottawa hockey team. The entire team was suspended for a year or so as a result.

University of Ottawa Hockey Team Suspended After Sexual Assault Allegations

University of Ottawa announced the suspension of its entire men's hockey team Monday, amid allegations that multiple members of the team engaged in a gang sexual assault of an unknown woman...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

That suspension was grossly unfair to the team and those who did not do anything wrong.

 

[branch]

More talk from Randy Timmins and less talk about the scandal

I'm a Rand Man myself

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Any rumblings on the streets?

 

[slamigo]

At this point, I just want the Sens to figure out the Bath/Forms thing BEFORE camp. It would be really disappointing for Tkachuk, Giroux, Debrincat etc to be swarmed for comment by reporters on the first day of camp about garbage that has nothing really to do with the Sens, the season or their play.
Dorion needs to talk to Batherson and Formenton and their representatives and get to the bottom of this. IF they were involved, the Sens cannot have that distraction all season long.

Please note: this is a separate issue from discussions with regard to the sexual assault and the impact on the victim. It's possible to focus on the team and talk about that issue without diminishing the horrific assault that the victim lived through. I'm getting sick of people like TSN JR saying that worrying about the Sens' roster or implications for the hockey club don't matter. They do matter. It's possible that multiple issues can matter.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Just so everyone is clear, no police force is going to pursue a sexual assault case without cooperation from the victim. The victim's assertion that they did not consent is the key part in proving the offence.

Information about how few rape cases are actually reported to the authorities is widely available. There is a reason why this woman would not have wanted to cooperate with the police. And that's before we start talking about text messages from someone pressuring her not to move forward.

The police investigation, or lack thereof, means jack shit in my opinion. But to each their own.

Edit: And I'll add that this internet "witch hunt" as it's been called (funny terminology when you consider the historical significance of burning women at the stake for being liars) is probably the main reason that all of this shadowy Hockey Canada business has come to light and might actually change for the better. You can't have one without the other.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Just so everyone is clear, no police force is going to pursue a sexual assault case without cooperation from the victim. The victim's assertion that they did not consent is the key part in proving the offence.

Information about how few rape cases are actually reported to the authorities is widely available. There is a reason why this woman would not have wanted to cooperate with the police. And that's before we start talking about text messages from someone pressuring her not to move forward.

The police investigation, or lack thereof, means jack shit in my opinion. But to each their own.

Edit: And I'll add that this internet "witch hunt" as it's been called (funny terminology when you consider the historical significance of burning women at the stake for being liars) is probably the main reason that all of this shadowy Hockey Canada business has come to light and might actually change for the better. You can't have one without the other.

I agree for the most part, though I think things start to change for the worse when the “internet witch hunt” changes from asking important questions and raising important issues, to drawing it’s own conclusions.

The situation certainly doesn’t look good at this point from a Sens fan point of view, but we really do need to wait and see how thing unfold.

 

[Hutz]

As far as free agency madness goes, I for one would love to sign UFA Klingberg to a 1 year contract. We can't offer term, but I hope we've put a 1 year offer down. I'm sure someone else is offering longer, so I'm not sure I'd take it if I were him, but it would be a mutually beneficial situation imo

 

[slamigo]

Holy hell. Now Hockey Canada says a similar event occurred in Halifax in 2003. WTF is wrong with hockey culture at the highest levels?

 

[Liver King]

I’m old enough to remember the days where we’d log into hf boards and read about the Ottawa Senators hockey team

Trades, signings, prospects, lineups

It was a blast