Franson, Santorelli can't explain Leafs' downturn

[LeafsNation75]

http://www.tsn.ca/franson-santorelli-can-t-explain-leafs-downturn-1.214234

Here is some of what is written.

"We were in a good position at Christmas and then for whatever reason, we kind of just fell off the train tracks there," Santorelli said Sunday at the Predators' Buffalo hotel before their game against the Sabres. "Some games we deserved better outcomes, but then we weren't consistent enough. We needed to be more consistent."

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[fahad203]

I think the problems are obvious. Leadership

During Mats Sundin / Pat Quinn era ( mind you those teams had Belfour and Cujo, who single handily used to win you games ) I remember the Leafs never lost 3 or more games in a row. They had better road records than home

Those teams had players that didn't quit and won't let others quit. The problem with this Leafs are they are mentally very fragile. When things go bad, instead of rolling up the sleeves we crumble

 

[Eb]

I thought it was Carlyle?

What a joke. Carlyle is one of the few coaches that would be able to get a 10 game winning streak out of this core. Thanks for the flawed core Burke!

 

[PuckMagi]

I'd be curious to see the +/- stats of the top line over this stretch vs. the team's overall goal differential.

Basically I think what happened is that the top line stopped scoring goals, but they continued allowing goals to be scored against them. So with everyone on the top line being a -1 or a -2 practically every game over that stretch, we didn't have the scoring depth to make up for those kinds of deficits.

 

[Swervin81]

I think they both know. Both just don't wanna look unprofessional and rip apart their former teammates and burn that bridge.

 

[Daisy Jane]

oh, i bet they can
they're just too classy to say why

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Blame Christmas.

The Christmas Curse.

 

[ITM]

I thought it was Carlyle?

What a joke. Carlyle is one of the few coaches that would be able to get a 10 game winning streak out of this core. Thanks for the flawed core Burke!

Dead horse, thy name is Nuance.

 

[Stephen]

When Prince Philip comes out and says he doesn't know why these struggles happen year after year, it says a lot about the group being unable to learn from past failures and understanding the standards required to have success.

 

[diceman934]

They know why.....and so do we!

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

It's definitely not the players

 

[BlueBaron]

Really speaking I think the Leafs have a serious chemistry problem. They simply are less than the sum of their parts . On paper this is not a bad team, it looks like a playoff team.

Many of our fans moan and groan about Burke but the reality is he accumulated some decent assets and improved the talent level of our team. They just did not mesh well and that is a difficult thing to anticipate.

This is actually one of the reasons I don't mind the Mike Richards idea. We can just accept he will be the worlds highest paid 3rd line center but we can let his attitude and professionalism rub off on the kids that will be taking over the team.

I am thinking maybe chemistry is something we have to manufacture from the floor up.

 

[William Hylander]

Sometimes you just have to nut up and bring it, and this team is/was not capable of doing that. They proved multiple times they don't have the cajones.

 

[Team Cozens]

http://www.tsn.ca/franson-santorelli-can-t-explain-leafs-downturn-1.214234

Here is some of what is written.

Leafs were in a great position at Christmas till management saw Connor McDavid at the WJC.

 

[080]

I'd be curious to see the +/- stats of the top line over this stretch vs. the team's overall goal differential.

Basically I think what happened is that the top line stopped scoring goals, but they continued allowing goals to be scored against them. So with everyone on the top line being a -1 or a -2 practically every game over that stretch, we didn't have the scoring depth to make up for those kinds of deficits.

This is why I've been wanting our entire top line traded for a while. I've always thought that their net benefit to the team was about equal. But with their offense drying up, they're just absolutely brutal.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

we built this team with a lot of other teams' castaways. how will that ever end up being successful?

we need to draft and develop to be successful.

and i agree, our leadership was brutal as well.

 

[PuckMagi]

Games in 2015: (Kessel, Bozak and JVR had a positive +/- stat in 3 out of 21 games... even in 5 games... negative in 13 games)

Carolina
Kessel: -1
Bozak: -1
JVR: -1

Florida
Kessel: -1
Bozak: -1
JVR: -1

Montreal
Kessel: 0
Bozak: 0
JVR: 0

Islanders
Kessel: 0
Bozak: -1
JVR: -2

Rangers
Kessel: -4
Bozak: -3
JVR: -3

Edmonton
Kessel: 1
Bozak: 1
JVR: 1

Devils
Kessel: -1
Bozak: -1
JVR: -1

Nashville
Kessel: -1
Bozak: -1
JVR: -1

Flyers
Kessel: 0
Bozak: 0
JVR: 0

Arazona
Kessel: 0
Bozak: 0
JVR: 0

Devils
Kessel: 0
Bozak: 1
JVR: 1

Ottawa
Kessel: 0
Bozak: 0
JVR: 0

Carolina
Kessel: -3
Bozak: -4
JVR: -4

St. Louis
Kessel: -2
Bozak: -2
JVR: -3

Sharks
Kessel: -1
Bozak: -1
JVR: -1

Ducks
Kessel: 0
Bozak: 0
JVR: 0

Kings
Kessel: -1
Bozak: -1
JVR: -2

Columbus
Kessel: 2
Bozak: 3
JVR: 0

Capitals
Kessel: -2
Bozak: -3
JVR: -1

Jets
Kessel: -2
Bozak: -1
JVR: -2

Wild
Kessel: -1
Bozak: -1
JVR: -1

 

[BlueBaron]

we built this team with a lot of other teams' castaways. how will that ever end up being successful?

we need to draft and develop to be successful.

and i agree, our leadership was brutal as well.

Castaways ? Are you saying no team can ever win with players they traded for ? You must be way smarter than the Dallas GM who grabbed that castaway Seguin. Or LA who got those castaways Richards and Carter and the Gaborik for their second cup ?

Or maybe your statement just doesn't make sense, especially considering Boston had to move Kessel or break up their centers because they were to hard against the cap when his contract came up.

This revisionist history where no one but us wanted Kessel is starting to get annoying. It just has no basis in reality.

 

[ITM]

Inconsistency comes from consistently deficient leadership. At best, industrious, incompetent leadership. At worst, apathetic incompetent leadership. Franson and Santorelli are obviously respecting the effort of the whole team as opposed to singling out it's most glaring detractors. Good on them for doing so. We don't need hand-holding to infer the obvious.

At this point, every management group in the league has skimmed over the positives of the assets on the table. We have one elite part, and a few secondary, tertiary supplements to contending clubs and a modest group to augment here going forward.

If we grab even incrementally increased value on Jokinen, Winnik before the deadline, while positioning for a greater yield on the usual suspects before the draft, it'll be a great couple of months for Toronto.

Another positive to take from the public conversation (If it's on the up and up) is the collective head-scratch that only sees our most valuable assets as simply and mysteriously misplaced and unfortunate and not just plain bad.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Castaways ? Are you saying no team can ever win with players they traded for ? You must be way smarter than the Dallas GM who grabbed that castaway Seguin. Or LA who got those castaways Richards and Carter and the Gaborik for their second cup ?

Or maybe your statement just doesn't make sense, especially considering Boston had to move Kessel or break up their centers because they were to hard against the cap when his contract came up.

This revisionist history where no one but us wanted Kessel is starting to get annoying. It just has no basis in reality.

its funny how you seem to pick out examples that are successful. and i'm not talking about kessel. i'm talking about players like lupul, phaneuf, etc...

yes they were castaways. yes you can improve teams with trades, but our trades never improved our team. so stop being over dramatic as if we made the playoffs continuously with this group over the last few years.

we're a garbage team due to the players we acquired. some of those acquisitions were good but not good enough for us to be a successful team.

 

[mcleex]

Cannot wait for Phaneuf to get shipped and we get a new C

 

[leafers]

I think the problems are obvious. Leadership

During Mats Sundin / Pat Quinn era ( mind you those teams had Belfour and Cujo, who single handily used to win you games ) I remember the Leafs never lost 3 or more games in a row. They had better road records than home

Those teams had players that didn't quit and won't let others quit. The problem with this Leafs are they are mentally very fragile. When things go bad, instead of rolling up the sleeves we crumble

Good post fahad and i agree.

Players like Roberts, Tucker, Steve Thomas etc. grew bigger cohonas when the going got rough, unlike this group who choke everytime they face adversity.

 

[Hunter74]

Good post fahad and i agree.

Players like Roberts, Tucker, Steve Thomas etc. grew bigger cohonas when the going got rough, unlike this group who choke everytime they face adversity.

So how is it Phaneufs fault the GM acquired a bunch of teammates that shrink when the going gets tough.

Gary Roberts couldn't make Phil Kessel, Bozak, JVR tough players no matter how big Roberts cohonas are.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

Castaways ? Are you saying no team can ever win with players they traded for ? You must be way smarter than the Dallas GM who grabbed that castaway Seguin. Or LA who got those castaways Richards and Carter and the Gaborik for their second cup ?

Or maybe your statement just doesn't make sense, especially considering Boston had to move Kessel or break up their centers because they were to hard against the cap when his contract came up.

This revisionist history where no one but us wanted Kessel is starting to get annoying. It just has no basis in reality.

No I agree with the castaway bit.

Seguin did not fit the Boston "mold" and they will be kicking themselves for years. Richards and Carter were traded for a good return (hockey trade)

Let's look at our roster:


Lupul-total salary dump
Kessel-same as Seguin granted but for salary purposes ontop of the no defence
Bozak-undrafted college "free agent"
Phaneuf-salary dump/disruption to the extent we will never know
Franson-sweetener for a salary dump
Gardiner-sweetener for taking Lupul
Clarkson-NJ LOL'ed at the salary offer and balked (smart)
Robidas-old and banged up free agent (although playing well)
James van Riemsdyk-hockey trade for Schenn-both needed change of scenery
Nazem Kadri
Daniel Winnik-free agent with something to prove
Morgan Rielly
Leo Komarov
Peter Holland-couldn't crack Anaheim forward depth
Richard Panik-couldn't crack Tampa forward depth
Roman Polak-hockey trade
Olli Jokinen-obvious salary dump
Korbinian Holzer
David Booth-broken down one year with something to prove
Trevor Smith
Stuart Percy


That's a lot of castaways.

 

[Suntouchable13]

So how is it Phaneufs fault the GM acquired a bunch of teammates that shrink when the going gets tough.

Gary Roberts couldn't make Phil Kessel, Bozak, JVR tough players no matter how big Roberts cohonas are.

Dion shrinks too.