Confirmed with Link: Francis out as GM - Don Waddell named GM 5/8/18

[Canes]

I know I'm constantly projecting how I think players feel, but I do think Skinner keeping his A and Staal and Faulk getting Cs must have stung. As it became more and more apparent that this was another lost season why would he bother putting in effort for a loser franchise that doesn't appreciate what he brings? I have no doubt he'd light it up somewhere else.

Because, like Eric Staal, he must be a robot who gives 100% effort all the time regardless of being on an incompetent team for almost a decade. I'm sure once he moves on and actually enjoys playing again and starts scoring 30+ goals again, the character assassination will begin.

 

[Stickpucker]

Regarding Lindholm, I think he's our version of Marcus Johansson. Basically, a good player who will always leave you wanting more. Will probably top out at 50-60 points.

Lindholm did show more flashes of talent earlier in his career, but we've pretty much turned him into a grinder.

Peters turns everyone into a grinder.

 

[geehaad]

I do think Skinner keeping his A and Staal and Faulk getting Cs must have stung. As it became more and more apparent that this was another lost season why would he bother putting in effort for a loser franchise that doesn't appreciate what he brings?

Not saying that you want to keep Skinner, but for anyone who subscribes to this take on him, you simply cannot want to keep him in CAR. Players who check out on a team due to bullshit like that are toxic to a team.

I disagree with that assessment, myself...I don't think Skinner's disappearance has anything to do with his official placement in the leadership hierarchy.

Regardless of that, if I were the incoming GM, I would be looking at what I could get for him.

 

[Stickpucker]

Blaming Skinner's woes on Peters....


C'mon. Skinner has been invisible for a month, and when the puck finally comes to him he tries the most ridiculous move possible and loses it asap. He tried the stupidest play last night when I finally saw him somewhere in the middle of the game. Some ridiculous through everyones legs including his own while he's surrounded and two feet from the net.

He had his best season last year under Peters, no matter how you move the numbers around. Every theory about the system failing Jeff is countered right there.

Maybe Peters needs to go because of the lack of success. Fine. Accusing him of stuffing players under rocks and then standing on the rocks just doesn't add up. Rask, Skinner and Faulk all had their best years under Peters.

What do you guys think Peters actually does to limit their games? Peters has them playing a possession oriented style, players who like the puck should not struggle. Faulk IS a poor fit due to his skating, but he still had great offensive years with this system.

Skinner has been missing shots he hits when he's confident. He's not confident, and he's always been prone to periods of being this way. He's a streaky goal scorer. There's no magic button for a coach to push for that.

He's playing with Derek Ryan.....of course he's going to try and dipsy doodle through the defense and do it all alone.

I've said it before but I think a few months ago the losing got to him and crushed his competive spirit. Can't say I blame him.

"All we do is lose"

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Rask, Skinner and Faulk all had their best years under Peters.

While this is true: Rask has played all of his years under Peters, Faulk has played all his years under Peters and Muller and Skinner has played all but his rookie year (his other best year) under those two guys.

 

[geehaad]

He's playing with Derek Ryan.....of course he's going to try and dipsy doodle through the defense and do it all alone.

He's done that his entire career.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Because, like Eric Staal, he must be a robot who gives 100% effort all the time regardless of being on an incompetent team for almost a decade. I'm sure once he moves on and actually enjoys playing again and starts scoring 30+ goals again, the character assassination will begin.

There's no need to wait for him to leave to talk about Skinner's character. He's a talented guy with a certain amount of fire in his spirit, but he doesn't do the things necessary to win hockey games. For all of about 1-2 seasons of his 8 year career, he has bothered to engage in the defensive zone. He doesn't backcheck well. He doesn't pass the puck. He makes ludicrous individual plays which lead to unforced turnovers. At one time he took tons of silly penalties. He gets mad and unfocused easily. He looks like a guy who has been successful at hockey because of pure natural athletic ability, but missed a crucial phase of coaching early in his career.

Giving that guy the C would be downright ludicrous. Not only is he not temperamentally fit to do the formal job of a captain (interact with officials after penalty calls), he doesn't appear to have any real interest in being the face of this team, or a contributor to this community, or even just a particularly good teammate. He's a "nice" enough human being off the ice, but it's hard to imagine he was even remotely considered for a letter.

Is this a guy who could score tons of goals on a stacked team? Of course. So was Alex Semin. That doesn't mean we give him a letter and pretend he's a leader of men.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's always hard to say how much of it is system, vs. players, vs. players tuning a coach out, etc..

Coaches, IMO, usually have a bigger impact making a good thing bad (see Mike Johnston in Pittsburgh) than they do in making a bad thing good. Sure, a good coach can take an average or good team and make it better, but it's hard to take a bad team and make it good, no matter who the coach is. And good coaches do lose the team (Lavi, Torts, etc..) so things change over time.

There's no doubt in my mind though, that Peters put a system in place that focused on puck possession and limiting shots, but at the expense of offense. The team takes a lot of low probability shots. His first two years here were 2 of the lowest scoring teams in Canes history (only the two "clutch and grab" teams right before the 05/06 lockout were lower) and on average, the team has scored less in his time here than his two predecessors. I'd argue that he has more talent than Muller had as well.

That's not to say that another coach could get better results overall with this team, or that a different system/style of play would have worked better though, as our goaltending and lack of talent is an issue no matter what.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I think we have to be very careful not to crap on our players right now. What we're watching is awful, there's no way of spinning that. But this season got away from us because of Darling and Francis. Darling choked on his new contract and torpedoed our season in the process. Francis did nothing about it, and handcuffed the coaching staff by refusing to acknowledge our issues and doing nothing to address them. Everything that has happened since then -- even up to the entire team quitting last night -- is understandable in that context. If anything, it speaks to how important it is to have everyone -- players, coaches, management -- pulling in the same direction. We didn't this season, and this is what it looks like.

The good thing is that one of these guys lost his job, and the other probably will soon. Peters will probably go as well to give everyone a fresh start, and we'll emerge in a much better place. I don't doubt there will be some trades to address issues we had before this season (goaltending, scoring, etc.), but I don't think the new GM is going to come in here with a "blow it up" attitude. A lot of our guys are going to be better just by having the cloud of this horrible season lifted.

 

[GoldiFox]

There's no need to wait for him to leave to talk about Skinner's character. He's a talented guy with a certain amount of fire in his spirit, but he doesn't do the things necessary to win hockey games. For all of about 1-2 seasons of his 8 year career, he has bothered to engage in the defensive zone. He doesn't backcheck well. He doesn't pass the puck. He makes ludicrous individual plays which lead to unforced turnovers. At one time he took tons of silly penalties. He gets mad and unfocused easily. He looks like a guy who has been successful at hockey because of pure natural athletic ability, but missed a crucial phase of coaching early in his career.

Giving that guy the C would be downright ludicrous. Not only is he not temperamentally fit to do the formal job of a captain (interact with officials after penalty calls), he doesn't appear to have any real interest in being the face of this team, or a contributor to this community, or even just a particularly good teammate. He's a "nice" enough human being off the ice, but it's hard to imagine he was even remotely considered for a letter.

Is this a guy who could score tons of goals on a stacked team? Of course. So was Alex Semin. That doesn't mean we give him a letter and pretend he's a leader of men.

I agree on Skinner. Which makes it even more curious to me why they would chose Faulk as the co-Captain. He has similar or even worse concerns in most of those areas.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don't see it that way. Maybe all the tools, but they are cheap Chinese knock-offs. He's an ok skater, but not great. He's not slow, but he doesn't have great speed. He's got decent hands, but not great. He's got ok vision, but not great. He's physical, but not overly. He's got a decent shot, but not great. etc... etc....
.

The point still stands.

...

I just wanted to say that.

Lindy has two really good NHL abilities- a great shot, and great hands. If he has time, he can, more than anyone on this team, make the puck where he wants to go (vs. Skinner or J. Staal who, even if they're trying to pass the puck, usually miss). He's not slow, he engages physically, he gets first unit PP time, so he should be contributing more than what we're seeing. Especially since this is the guy who flipped the switch in late 2016 and suddenly started engaging physically after 3 and a half years of getting herded to the side by any NHL caliber defenseman.

It's a hockey IQ problem. It's the hardest to scout for because having good tools- in Lindy's case, 2 really great tools and NHL average elsewhere- was enough to be a great SHL player at 17. Hence the "no toolbox". So no matter what bromide we use...that's the core issue.

He may also have a problem with getting hurt and playing through it. I think Faulk and Rask are similar (vs. the Staal brothers, for example, who are f***ing ironmen).

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I agree on Skinner. Which makes it even more curious to me why they would chose Faulk as the co-Captain. He has similar or even worse concerns in most of those areas.

I don't know. Skinner's problem is engagement. Faulk's problem is decision making- Faulk cares, he's just making poor decisions, trying to do too much to boot (he might be a guy to be "A", Staal the "C") and his skating isn't up to it. It wasn't always particularly effective, but Faulk has absolutely no ability to escape pressure via his skating this year, and he can't pass very well, especially underpressure.

I really, really hope this is because of the MCL tear or the weight of a bust season or the leadership mantle- because those things are easily rectified.

 

[bleedgreen]

I've always wanted to see Skinner in the playoffs, I could see him literally going a goal per game.

Problem is we need to make the playoffs and watching him play this year has been disheartening. He's been healthy, and at the same time I think the worst overall he's played. His puck management has been brutal. Just brutal. I'm never one to give up on our guys but he's got a raise coming and we need someone in his spot who's more consistent and more responsible. He hasn't stepped up when it was put on a platter for him. I don't want him gone, but for the first time I would listen to see what's out there. I'm fine with keeping him if it isn't something good enough.

Faulk may be the only guy I think needs a different coach. He doesn't have the quickness to play in this system effectively. Interesting that Tripp called him out on his bulk, saying the loss of flexibility in the attempt to get stronger has hurt him. He's hardly the first guy to go down that road, hopefully he sees it himself and can slim it down for next year.

I agree with Kev though, it's hard to judge this team because of the Darling effect. They've lost games they shouldn't have because of it. We all knew we were a good goalie away from being on the edge, and that hasn't changed at all. We don't need to tear it down, but some shuffling for some fresh blood may go a long way.

Teams play different when they have no faith in their goalie.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Lindy has two really good NHL abilities- a great shot, and great hands. If he has time, he can, more than anyone on this team, make the puck where he wants to go (vs. Skinner or J. Staal who, even if they're trying to pass the puck, usually miss). He's not slow, he engages physically, he gets first unit PP time, so he should be contributing more than what we're seeing. Especially since this is the guy who flipped the switch in late 2016 and suddenly started engaging physically after 3 and a half years of getting herded to the side by any NHL caliber defenseman.

It's a hockey IQ problem. It's the hardest to scout for because having good tools- in Lindy's case, 2 really great tools and NHL average elsewhere- was enough to be a great SHL player at 17. Hence the "no toolbox". So no matter what bromide we use...that's the core issue.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree here, which is fine. I think his wrist shot is good, but not great (particularly when you add in accuracy). I think his hands are good, but not great. I don't see a tool box issue, I see tools that are average to good, but not not quite good enough on a consistent basis. Maybe what he's been asked to do (more of a cycle role) isn't conducive to his game? Who knows.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

There's no need to wait for him to leave to talk about Skinner's character. He's a talented guy with a certain amount of fire in his spirit, but he doesn't do the things necessary to win hockey games. For all of about 1-2 seasons of his 8 year career, he has bothered to engage in the defensive zone. He doesn't backcheck well. He doesn't pass the puck. He makes ludicrous individual plays which lead to unforced turnovers. At one time he took tons of silly penalties. He gets mad and unfocused easily. He looks like a guy who has been successful at hockey because of pure natural athletic ability, but missed a crucial phase of coaching early in his career.

Giving that guy the C would be downright ludicrous. Not only is he not temperamentally fit to do the formal job of a captain (interact with officials after penalty calls), he doesn't appear to have any real interest in being the face of this team, or a contributor to this community, or even just a particularly good teammate. He's a "nice" enough human being off the ice, but it's hard to imagine he was even remotely considered for a letter.

Is this a guy who could score tons of goals on a stacked team? Of course. So was Alex Semin. That doesn't mean we give him a letter and pretend he's a leader of men.

As a counterpoint to that, though, 'Heel, offhand Skinner's the only player I know of who has come forward at one time or another and has said explicitly that he wants to be a leader on this team. Williams hemmed and hawed about it, Staal at one point said he didn't want to, and Faulk hasn't seemed to want to either.

Not only that but then you have pieces like this one - not just in the media but on nhl.com - you can argue it's not as ludicrous as you make it sound that there was thought Jeff Skinner would have a "C" on his chest to start the season:

Skinner Leading Candidate to be Hurricanes' Next Captain

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't know. Skinner's problem is engagement. Faulk's problem is decision making- Faulk cares, he's just making poor decisions, trying to do too much to boot (he might be a guy to be "A", Staal the "C") and his skating isn't up to it. It wasn't always particularly effective, but Faulk has absolutely no ability to escape pressure via his skating this year, and he can't pass very well, especially underpressure.

I really, really hope this is because of the MCL tear or the weight of a bust season or the leadership mantle- because those things are easily rectified.

I've always wanted to see Skinner in the playoffs, I could see him literally going a goal per game.

Problem is we need to make the playoffs and watching him play this year has been disheartening. He's been healthy, and at the same time I think the worst overall he's played. His puck management has been brutal. Just brutal. I'm never one to give up on our guys but he's got a raise coming and we need someone in his spot who's more consistent and more responsible. He hasn't stepped up when it was put on a platter for him. I don't want him gone, but for the first time I would listen to see what's out there. I'm fine with keeping him if it isn't something good enough.

Faulk may be the only guy I think needs a different coach. He doesn't have the quickness to play in this system effectively. Interesting that Tripp called him out on his bulk, saying the loss of flexibility in the attempt to get stronger has hurt him. He's hardly the first guy to go down that road, hopefully he sees it himself and can slim it down for next year.

I agree with Kev though, it's hard to judge this team because of the Darling effect. They've lost games they shouldn't have because of it. We all knew we were a good goalie away from being on the edge, and that hasn't changed at all. We don't need to tear it down, but some shuffling for some fresh blood may go a long way.

I agree with both of these takes. I also don’t like to give up on Skinner, but this year he’s undermined my confidence that he can be more than a support player on a good team, which is something that’s not going to happen here any time soon. It may very well be time to explore our options for moving on from him. Let him be someone else’s core player to worry about.

Faulk on the other hand is simply overtasked, maybe closer to a specialist than I wanted to believe. I think we can still make something really good out of Faulk’s career here, given the right kind of roster development.

 

[GoldiFox]

I don't know. Skinner's problem is engagement. Faulk's problem is decision making- Faulk cares, he's just making poor decisions, trying to do too much to boot (he might be a guy to be "A", Staal the "C") and his skating isn't up to it. It always particularly effective, but Faulk has absolutely no ability to escape pressure via his skating this year, and he can't pass very well, especially underpressure.

I really, really hope this is because of the MCL tear or the weight of a bust season or the leadership mantle- because those things are easily rectified.

I guess I just see it differently on a macro/micro level.

I agree that Skinner’s problem is engagement but to me that appears to be frustration over trying to be a “one-man-show” and failing. Skinner’s engagement has been tops among the team in the past, he looks burnt out.

Faulk’s engagement is better on the whole but for me at the foundation it looks like a “Workman’s Apathy”. This season he has been bad at a very consistent level.

I suppose the solution in any case would be “surround them with better talent” to break what ails them.

 

[tarheelhockey]

As a counterpoint to that, though, 'Heel, offhand Skinner's the only player I know of who has come forward at one time or another and has said explicitly that he wants to be a leader on this team. Williams hemmed and hawed about it, Staal at one point said he didn't want to, and Faulk hasn't seemed to want to either.

Not only that but then you have pieces like this one - not just in the media but on nhl.com - you can argue it's not as ludicrous as you make it sound that there was thought Jeff Skinner would have a "C" on his chest to start the season:

Skinner Leading Candidate to be Hurricanes' Next Captain

I remember one time my office interviewed a job candidate who was about 25 and explained how he had some ideas about how we could be doing things better. He was really excited by the opportunity to bring his leadership to our team.

I wonder whatever happened to that guy.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I remember one time my office interviewed a job candidate who was about 25 and explained how he had some ideas about how we could be doing things better. He was really excited by the opportunity to bring his leadership to our team.

I wonder whatever happened to that guy.

He's probably the CEO of some other company.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He's probably the CEO of some other company.

Entirely possible. It's a lot easier to rise up the ranks when you're actually earning it with hard work and initiative, as opposed to showing up and expecting it to simply happen because you're young and promising and really the most talented guy in the room if we're being honest.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I remember one time my office interviewed a job candidate who was about 25 and explained how he had some ideas about how we could be doing things better. He was really excited by the opportunity to bring his leadership to our team.

I wonder whatever happened to that guy.

It'd be one thing if Skinner came in as a rookie and said that but it was after he'd been here a few years. Hell, think about how long it took for Skinner to have a letter - any letter - attached to his sweater. And, again, others see it too. Here's Canes Country positing in 2016 that it should be Skinner as the captain

He’s also developed a vocal side to him, which he displayed at training camp.

"He was working extremely hard and calling guys out when they weren't doing things the right way," said Ron Francis of Skinner. "We felt he had grown into the leadership role. He's not afraid to point out if a guy cuts a route [during a drill] or cheats on something.”

His strength on the puck is one reason why he is so vibrant. (Thanks, figure skating!) There aren’t many shifts where Skinner goes unnoticed whether it’s a scoring opportunity, making a nice play, or just being so great with the puck all eyes are on the 24-year-old winger.

"He’s a goal-scorer, right?” head coach Bill Peters said. “It’s hard to score in the NHL and he’s a guy where the puck follows him around. He’s elusive, hungry to score – there’s a lot to like about his game.”

Sure, Skinner puts up points, but there are some nights where it’s Skinner and the Skinner-ets. His determination on the ice is a drive that simply hasn’t been there in recent years and is one of the many reasons he’s a positive influence on the young talent.

“The way he handles himself, the way he trains, the way he eats…we make fun of him because he’s one of a kind,” Cam Ward says of Skinner. “He’s always had a lot of skill and a knack in front of the ice, but what has impressed me is that he’s playing a great two-way game.”

Again I'd completely get your point, 'heel, if Skinner had come in from Day 1 and said something like "This is my team now" or "I wore an A in Kitchener, they put an "A" on Crosby his first year, I want one now." There comes a point when a long-time employee sees others get promotions and awards and realizes he's putting in the work too - so where are his plaudits? Hell I've been in that position and it absolutely affects your performance.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Entirely possible. It's a lot easier to rise up the ranks when you're actually earning it with hard work and initiative, as opposed to showing up and expecting it to simply happen because you're young and promising and really the most talented guy in the room if we're being honest.

Are you suggesting Skinner wasn't showing up with hard work and initiative? He's been known as one of the most hard working guys, both in season and off season. Now, I'm not suggesting he's good captain material, in fact I don't think he is, but this isn't a case of a young, new, talented guy just showing up, like your example. Skinner has put in his time with hard work on this team.

 

[AD Skinner]

I'm not saying Skinner deserves the C- I am saying i can understand him being frustrated by the stupid co-captain thing and that frustration coupled with yet another season of management giving up at or before the trade deadline is probably a big part of the lackadaisical play we are seeing. Last year they had a spark and believed they were close, and he played his butt off. He was even putting in work in the defensive zone. This year they got torpedoed by darling/the organization doing nothing to address that issue, and he's floating. I'm not excusing it, but I totally get it.

 

[geehaad]

i can understand him being frustrated by the stupid co-captain thing and that frustration coupled with yet another season of management giving up at or before the trade deadline is probably a big part of the lackadaisical play we are seeing.

That's like saying a wife left her husband because he didn't tell her that she looked good often enough and because he beat her every day.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

I'm not saying Skinner deserves the C- I am saying i can understand him being frustrated by the stupid co-captain thing and that frustration coupled with yet another season of management giving up at or before the trade deadline is probably a big part of the lackadaisical play we are seeing. Last year they had a spark and believed they were close, and he played his butt off. He was even putting in work in the defensive zone. This year they got torpedoed by darling/the organization doing nothing to address that issue, and he's floating. I'm not excusing it, but I totally get it.

pretty much my thoughts as well

this whole season has been a trainwreck since the co-captaincy announcement