Flyers trade deadline (Flyers claim J. Oduya off waivers; lose Alt to Colorado)

[Tripod]

Frost is nothing like Konecny.
Konecny is exciting, but if you watched last night, he started doing the same things that got him benched, he simply doesn't have a high hockey IQ.
Speed, fiesty, skilled, but gets out of control at times, forces things and becomes a turnover machine. And sometimes forgets half the game is defense.

Guys like Couts, Patrick and Frost have been lauded for their ice sense from a young age.
Patrick's struggles this year are physical, and when a player is used to being able to do certain things and can't (see Giroux last year), it's hard to adjust and it throws off your timing (legs? legs? where's the overdrive?).

Can you show me where you were saying TK's IQ was an issue when he was in Jr? Clearly you are talking like it's been a known fact so you should have no issue finding it.

 

[deadhead]

My notes on Konecny when he was drafted stress speed, skill, leadership, grit and compete level.
And we've seen that at the NHL level. And sometimes that gets him in trouble because he tries to do too much.
Nowhere do I find the kind of language numerous people have used to describe Frost.

"The thing that stands out about Frost on tape and in person is how smart he is. He’s got a knack of seeing a play one to two steps ahead of everyone else."

 

[whitstifier]

Put Frost in the NHL next season and see how he performs... I doubt he does much better than Konecny in his first season.

I think you forget that Konecny drove offense on two different teams in his D+1 season. It takes pretty good hockey sense to dominate like Konecny did.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

My notes on Konecny when he was drafted stress speed, skill, leadership, grit and compete level.
And we've seen that at the NHL level. And sometimes that gets him in trouble because he tries to do too much.
Nowhere do I find the kind of language numerous people have used to describe Frost.

"The thing that stands out about Frost on tape and in person is how smart he is. He’s got a knack of seeing a play one to two steps ahead of everyone else."

They aren’t very similar players, IMO, other than productivity & lacking in size. Frost slows the game down & reads the ice beautifully. Konecny has more of a gung ho energetic style. Frost uses his speed strategically, Konecny is mostly balls to the wall. His biggest problem is when he tries to do too much & turns it over too high in the offensive zone. Konecny is going to keep getting better as he realizes what he can’t get away with — which admittedly has been a struggle. Frost is probably going to have some strength issues for a couple of seasons.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Can you show me where you were saying TK's IQ was an issue when he was in Jr? Clearly you are talking like it's been a known fact so you should have no issue finding it.

I enjoy finding things.

Not worried about Provorov, supposedly a very high hockey IQ to go with obvious physical skills.

Same with Konecny, I think the only issue is whether Hextall feels he'll hold up at 183 lbs (remember, it'll probably be 175 lbs in April), or needs another year to fill out and a few months in the AHL to adjust to playing with men instead of boys.

In the same fashion, I think after another season in the SHL, Lindblom make make the team in camp, AHL would be a slight demotion, and he pretty much has a NHL body.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/120622909/

Apparently it was so high that it was an issue. Got it.

 

[BackWithaVengeance]

Since Giroux, Voracek and Couturier are playing bonafide hockey it's tough to sell off quality pieces. What will you tell them? What would they think?

Nevertheless this is what should happen:

Filppula
Weise
Simmonds !!!
MacDonald
Manning
Lehterä

better be on the table.

Ottawa wants a kings randsom for Hoffman. Armstrong owes Hexy one for the B.Schenn trade. Hextall should ask for one of Kyrou/Kostin and their 2019 first in exchange for Simmonds and call it a day. Maybe another conditional pick if he resigns.

Fillpulla would be a nice bottom-line fit for any contendet. I expect a late 2nd or 3rd rounder.

The rest would be just a win if they get off the roster anyhow.



If Sanheim or Morin get traded I truly believe Hextall suffers under post-concussion syndroms or Holmgren took over behind the scenes. If they trade them in prospect for prospect trades (which rarely happen) I can at least understand the thought process but would still be pissed off.

Here is my darkhorse pick:

Lindblöm gets traded for a veteran winger and the Flyers miss the play-offs by two points so Hakstol can stay another season. Sounds about right.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Fabbri & a first for Simmonds. Done deal.

 

[RANKKA]

Fabbri & Kyrou for Simmonds. Done deal.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Fabbri & Kyrou for Simmonds. Done deal.

Would do.

 

[dats81]

I think Hextall is still torn between the ideas of selling or re-signing Filppula.

They are in love with his personality and Veteran leadership but his skills are declining rapidly. Laughton's carrer has been resurrected, Vorobyev has looked close to NHL ready in LV and Morgan Frost is tearing up his league but the job opening may be coming a year early if Nolan Patrick can't be the #2C next year.

 

[Appleyard]

The thing I would say about Simmonds is... yeh, he has not been great.

But how much of that is Val Filppula?

Simmonds with Filppula (206 TOI): 45.9% CF%, 45.8% ExGF%
Simmonds without Filppula (345 TOI): 50.7% CF%, 53.4% ExGF%

Simmonds 13-17: 50.5% CF%, 50.25% ExGF%


I mean, personally I would trade him I reckon in summer for the greater good of the organisation going forward... but when he has been with Giroux or Patrick at C he has been completely fine, good even.

 

[Shodein]

Since Giroux, Voracek and Couturier are playing bonafide hockey it's tough to sell off quality pieces. What will you tell them? What would they think?

Nevertheless this is what should happen:

Filppula
Weise
Simmonds !!!
MacDonald
Manning
Lehterä

better be on the table.

Ottawa wants a kings randsom for Hoffman. Armstrong owes Hexy one for the B.Schenn trade. Hextall should ask for one of Kyrou/Kostin and their 2019 first in exchange for Simmonds and call it a day. Maybe another conditional pick if he resigns.

Fillpulla would be a nice bottom-line fit for any contendet. I expect a late 2nd or 3rd rounder.

The rest would be just a win if they get off the roster anyhow.



If Sanheim or Morin get traded I truly believe Hextall suffers under post-concussion syndroms or Holmgren took over behind the scenes. If they trade them in prospect for prospect trades (which rarely happen) I can at least understand the thought process but would still be pissed off.

Here is my darkhorse pick:

Lindblöm gets traded for a veteran winger and the Flyers miss the play-offs by two points so Hakstol can stay another season. Sounds about right.

Not that I loved JVR but I hope they learned their lesson and Lindblom isn't in any discussions

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The thing I would say about Simmonds is... yeh, he has not been great.

But how much of that is Val Filppula?

Simmonds with Filppula (206 TOI): 45.9% CF%, 45.8% ExGF%
Simmonds without Filppula (345 TOI): 50.7% CF%, 53.4% ExGF%

Simmonds 13-17: 50.5% CF%, 50.25% ExGF%


I mean, personally I would trade him I reckon in summer for the greater good of the organisation going forward... but when he has been with Giroux or Patrick at C he has been completely fine, good even.

Simmonds’ Corsi may have been good when playing with Couturier & Giroux, but otherwise I thought he was a black hole on that line. I like Konecny on it much better.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Would do.

If pressed I probably would too, but I would want a little more. Fabbri looks like a good player for sure, but he's got some injury baggage with his knee (knees?). Kyrou is not a blue chip level prospect but he certainly has value. I think if we're talking with the Blues I would probably ask in addition to these guys for a pick somewhere and maybe try a reclamation project like Bleakley or Paajarvi (or both?),

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Also, can you even trade a player on LTIR? I think that might prevent any deal with Fabbri.

 

[TheKingPin]

Seems like we reach for this a lot these days, but maybe manning is being played so much to be traded at the deadline?

 

[Lord Defect]

Also, can you even trade a player on LTIR? I think that might prevent any deal with Fabbri.

What status was Pronger listed as when we traded him?

 

[Psuhockey]

Seems like we reach for this a lot these days, but maybe manning is being played so much to be traded at the deadline?

Can you name a player during Hextalls era that was showcased and then dumped?

Vinny was scratched almost an entire season when they traded him. Schenn was in and out of the lineup. Kimmo didn’t play a single game.

Manning being showcased is wishful thinking. The highest probability is the team actually likes him as a player.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

In a perfect world, Manning, AMac, Filp, Weise and Lehtera would be traded.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

What status was Pronger listed as when we traded him?

I think it was in the offseason so LTIR wouldn't be in effect IIRC.

 

[Curufinwe]

Can you name a player during Hextalls era that was showcased and then dumped?

Coburn for one, Streit for another. There have been a lot of players who have been regulars in the Hextall era, but then were either traded or allowed to leave.

Coburn - 39 games at 20:14 in 14-15, traded on 3/2/15
Grossmann - 68 games at 17:39 in 14-15, traded on 6/27/15
Rinaldo - 58 games at 8:55 in 14-15, traded on 6/29/15

Luke Schenn - 29 games at 17:35 in 15-16, traded on 1/6/16
Medvedev - 45 games at 18:49 in 15-16, left as a UFA on 6/30/16
Gagner - 53 games at 13:51 in 15-16, left as a UFA on 6/30/16
White - 73 games at 12:33 in 15-16, left as a UFA on 6/30/16

Streit - 49 games at 19:23 in 16-17, traded on 3/1/17
Cousins - 60 games at 12:00 in 16-17, traded on 6/16/17
Bellemare - 82 games at 12:58 in 16-17, left in expansion draft on 6/21/17
Brayden Schenn - 79 games at 17:48, traded on 6/23/17
VdV - 81 games at 11:33 in 16-17, left as a UFA on 6/30/17
MDZ - 51 games at 19:30 in 16-17, left as a UFA on 6/30/17

 

[deadhead]

Which is why all this angst over MacDonald and Manning and Lehtera playing is just a waste of time.
Hextall sees each season as a microcosm, but once that season is over, when he builds next year's team, how you were used last year is irrelevant.

As far as someone like Sanheim, Hextall will just see this year as growing pains, he'll see in TC if Sanheim has worked hard to add strength and is willing to use it, and not base his decision on Sanheim's struggles this season. Same with Morin and his injuries.

The same patience that frustrates fans also means that Hextall won't be quick to pull the trigger on talented prospects (guys like Cousins, etc., who show they lack NHL starter talent are a different matter).

 

[MSSLYNX]

Fabbri & Kyrou for Simmonds. Done deal.

I am an elc kind of guy. Fabbri is at the end of his. Would rather get Kostin instead. Plus the injury stuff.

But i truly believe StL is one of few teams who can be looking at WS with nice prospects so i'd be willing to discuss the return of their 2018 1st. Pretty sure they would like that.

WS + 1st 2018 vs Kyrou, Thompson (RW) , Toropchenko (4th 2017, 6'3, C, 21 pts 40 games ohl).

?

 

[RANKKA]

I am an elc kind of guy. Fabbri is at the end of his. Would rather get Kostin instead. Plus the injury stuff.

But i truly believe StL is one of few teams who can be looking at WS with nice prospects so i'd be willing to discuss the return of their 2018 1st. Pretty sure they would like that.

WS + 1st 2018 vs Kyrou, Thompson (RW) , Toropchenko (4th 2017, 6'3, C, 21 pts 40 games ohl).

?

yea but fabbri is nhl ready for us next year

 

[MSSLYNX]

yea but fabbri is nhl ready for us next year

Same for Thompson already 3rd rw. But yeah i'd do both deals depending on STL's preference.