Prospect Info: Flames prospect rankings: #6

[SaintMorose]

Voted Poirier step back last season along with a number of guys in Stockton but before that he's been a very exciting prospect and looked okay in a few NHL games.

 

[BigRangy]

Well just as I was typing up a post the previous thread was closed (Thanks, Anglesmith)


-snip-


Then Matt DeBlouw.

Lindstrom too low! He's gonna be a stud. I think I'm going to start voting for him once Pribyl and Eetu are gone.

 

[HighLifeMan]

That's why I won't. I voted Hickey because I felt that is the only way he doesn't win. Ryan Howse 2.0

Ryan Howse could shoot the puck. That was literally his only pro asset. In addition to that he lost his passion for the sport completely, which is not an assumption you can make for Andersson.

Brian Burke has gone on record stating that he believes Rasmus will be an NHL player. I would agree with that assessment. Rasmus arguably thinks the game at a higher level than any other prospect within the organization (outside of Tkachuk), and that alone will see him find success as a pro (whether that be within the NHL, and specifically here in Calgary remains to be seen). Andersson has the hockey IQ to become a player that can impact a game on a shift to shift basis, that is not something that can be taught... conditioning and developing good habits in the gym on the other hand can be.

If this concern persists after a year of pro under the direct control and guidance of the organization then it becomes a real issue moving forward, at least in my eyes.

 

[Lunatik]

Ryan Howse could shoot the puck. That was literally his only pro asset. In addition to that he lost his passion for the sport completely, which is not an assumption you can make for Andersson.

Brian Burke has gone on record stating that he believes Rasmus will be an NHL player. I would agree with that assessment. Rasmus arguably thinks the game at a higher level than any other prospect within the organization (outside of Tkachuk), and that alone will see him find success as a pro (whether that be within the NHL, and specifically here in Calgary remains to be seen). Andersson has the hockey IQ to become a player that can impact a game on a shift to shift basis, that is not something that can be taught... conditioning and developing good habits in the gym on the other hand can be.

If this concern persists after a year of pro under the direct control and guidance of the organization then it becomes a real issue moving forward, at least in my eyes.

This is 3 camps out of shape, 2 rookie camps and a main camp. Yeah he can play against other kids but once he's playing pro poor conditioning will either render him much less effective or lead to injury problems. At this point there is also no guarantee that he will be playing pro this year due to these concerns.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I feel like you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. Treliving already said he's confident that Andersson will be in proper shape as early as training camp, so clearly it's not that bad.

So much this. Maybe people just are relating Trelivings comments to similar things that were said about Howse. However there is a difference between a guy who needs to work on his conditioning and a guy who couldn't even feed himself and didn't really want to play hockey.

Until it becomes some kind of ongoing issue, I am not worried about it.

 

[Lunatik]

So much this. Maybe people just are relating Trelivings comments to similar things that were said about Howse. However there is a difference between a guy who needs to work on his conditioning and a guy who couldn't even feed himself and didn't really want to play hockey.

Until it becomes some kind of ongoing issue, I am not worried about it.

Obviously calling him Howse 2.0 is hyperbole, but it's no more ridiculous than not having it affect his ranking.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Obviously calling him Howse 2.0 is hyperbole, but it's no more ridiculous than not having it affect his ranking.

I am fine with using it as an argument to affect his ranking. Its just how much should it affect his ranking? I don't feel it should in a big way.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Obviously calling him Howse 2.0 is hyperbole, but it's no more ridiculous than not having it affect his ranking.

An OHL 1st team allstar who was arguably the best OFD in the entire OHL going #6 in our pool could very easily be argued as it affecting his ranking.

 

[Lunatik]

I am fine with using it as an argument to affect his ranking. Its just how much should it affect his ranking? I don't feel it should in a big way.

I think it's enough to put him behind guys like Poirier, Klimchuk and Hickey for sure. All are very skilled, have similar potential and do not have conditioning issues.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

So much this. Maybe people just are relating Trelivings comments to similar things that were said about Howse. However there is a difference between a guy who needs to work on his conditioning and a guy who couldn't even feed himself and didn't really want to play hockey.

Until it becomes some kind of ongoing issue, I am not worried about it.

At what point do we consider it an ongoing problem? Two years? Three professional camps? Because that's where he is sitting at now. At some point he has to learn and he has had ample opportunity to do so.

Am I labelling him a bust? Absolutely not, but he has some issues to figure out that he has not yet shown he is going to iron out. If that isn't cause for concern I don't know what is.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

At what point do we consider it an ongoing problem?

It's a "problem" if it keeps him from making the AHL roster and he is sent down to Barrie.

Which, considering he was one of the final cuts from NHL camp just a year ago, whereas a fitness freak like Kanzig was the only player sent down to Junior last year, I think is unlikely.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

I think it's enough to put him behind guys like Poirier, Klimchuk and Hickey for sure. All are very skilled, have similar potential and do not have conditioning issues.

A conditioning issue that has been addressed by higher-ups and not improved is also perhaps an indication of something bigger than just a conditioning problem.

 

[InfinityIggy]

At what point do we consider it an ongoing problem? Two years? Three professional camps? Because that's where he is sitting at now. At some point he has to learn and he has had ample opportunity to do so.

Am I labelling him a bust? Absolutely not, but he has some issues to figure out that he has not yet shown he is going to iron out. If that isn't cause for concern I don't know what is.

Maybe I am out of the loop, but has his conditioning ect. been questioned prior to this? It's the first time I have ever heard comments from Treliving and co. saying something to this effect.

 

[Lunatik]

An OHL 1st team allstar who was arguably the best OFD in the entire OHL going #6 in our pool could very easily be argued as it affecting his ranking.

It could also easily be argued he would be 6th anyways. The debate of Kylington vs. Andersson has been going all year so it would shock no one if Kylington beat him out. Shinkaruk split votes with Kylington and lost in a tie breaker, so if that was split, I think it is safe to assume a Shinkaruk vs. Andersson would have also be very close. I think all this has done is turn a tie-breaker for #4 into a two man race rather than 3.

 

[HighLifeMan]

This is 3 camps out of shape, 2 rookie camps and a main camp. Yeah he can play against other kids but once he's playing pro poor conditioning will either render him much less effective or lead to injury problems. At this point there is also no guarantee that he will be playing pro this year due to these concerns.

Who is to say that he hasn't made progress though? He may not be exactly where the organization wants him to be at this point (which is clear) but we as fan's are not privy to the expectations that were set out for him by the higher up's. At the end of the day it takes time to learn and develop these habits especially if they have not been needed previously. Rasmus has shown that he can dominate and succeed at every level he has had the chance to play at without taking care of his body in the way that most athletes his age need to, and yes that will have to change moving forward. I see no reason as to why he can't make those adjustments in the future. His on ice results and performances to date have never given me any concern, and that won't change until he shows otherwise.

 

[Lunatik]

Maybe I am out of the loop, but has his conditioning ect. been questioned prior to this? It's the first time I have ever heard comments from Treliving and co. saying something to this effect.

Andersson himself admitted his conditioning was bad last year. It was to be his focus this year.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Maybe I am out of the loop, but has his conditioning ect. been questioned prior to this? It's the first time I have ever heard comments from Treliving and co. saying something to this effect.

It was identified as an area that needed significant improvement when he was drafted, and it's been improved however he's not in professional shape. However July Dev Camp was his first time back on the ice this year since the OHL season ended, and he's coming from Malmo (12M Elevation) to Calgary (1045M Elevation).

 

[Lunatik]

Who is to say that he hasn't made progress though? He may not be exactly where the organization wants him to be at this point (which is clear) but we as fan's are not privy to the expectations that were set out for him by the higher up's. At the end of the day it takes time to learn and develop these habits especially if they have not been needed previously. Rasmus has shown that he can dominate and succeed at every level he has had the chance to play at without taking care of his body in the way that most athletes his age need to, and yes that will have to change moving forward. I see no reason as to why he can't make those adjustments in the future. His on ice results and performances to date have never given me any concern, and that won't change until he shows otherwise.

It was bad enough that Treliving called him out to the media BEFORE they had their "chi-chat" about his conditioning. If there is progress, it's clearly not close to enough. Treliving doesn't go around calling guys out, so this was clearly a statement.

 

[tyflames]

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't doughty not work out at all in junior? Not saying this is a comparison but as long as he's making an effort I don't see the big deal

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't doughty not work out at all in junior? Not saying this is a comparison but as long as he's making an effort I don't see the big deal

Yup I think his nickname was "Doughnuts."

Ironically that's who Rasmus patterns his game after.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

It's a "problem" if it keeps him from making the AHL roster and he is sent down to Barrie.

Which, considering he was one of the final cuts from NHL camp just a year ago, whereas a fitness freak like Kanzig was the only player sent down to Junior last year, I think is unlikely.

That's when it becomes a problem? It's a problem no matter where he plays. So as long as his skills are enough to outweigh other issues, the other issues are not a problem? It doesn't matter if ironing the other issues out would make him a much better player, and are his only MAJOR limiting factor from reaching his ceiling? Someone can only go so far on skill alone.

You are doing a disservice to both the player and the team if you allow a player a free pass essentially on an issue that would keep him from being the best he can be. If you say it is only a problem when his skill can no longer carry him any further, that is some bad logic and management.

 

[Lunatik]

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't doughty not work out at all in junior? Not saying this is a comparison but as long as he's making an effort I don't see the big deal

Yup I think his nickname was "Doughnuts."

Ironically that's who Rasmus patterns his game after.

First things first, Doughty was still talented enough to go #2 overall; Andersson was a late 2nd round pick. Second, conditioning of these athletes has changed alot in the last decade, guys like Doughty were not expected to be as fit as the guys are today. Not to mention I don't recall Doughty having too many conditioning issues over a year after he was drafted.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

That's when it becomes a problem? It's a problem no matter where he plays. So as long as his skills are enough to outweigh other issues, the other issues are not a problem? It doesn't matter if ironing the other issues out would make him a much better player, and are his only MAJOR limiting factor from reaching his ceiling? Someone can only go so far on skill alone.

You are doing a disservice to both the player and the team if you allow a player a free pass essentially on an issue that would keep him from being the best he can be. If you say it is only a problem when his skill can no longer carry him any further, that is some bad logic and management.

It's a problem if and when management deems it a problem. Him making the AHL team (getting paid to play hockey) while the option to send him down exists would suggest that management does not it a problem. An area of concern to continue to monitor, perhaps, but not a problem.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

It's a problem if and when management deems it a problem. Him making the AHL team (getting paid to play hockey) while the option to send him down exists would suggest that management does not it a problem. An area of concern to continue to monitor, perhaps, but not a problem.

I don't know about you, but I see an athlete who is out of shape (something that prevents them from being at peak performance) as a problem. Especially with all the other things that come into question along with it.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Goalie|Potential|Stage|Low Sv%|High SV%|Avg SV|Last Season|Pro
Gilles|9|7|0.915|0.931|0.9254|0.920|1
Rittich|8|7|0.891|0.937|0.9169|0.919|2
Parsons|8|5|0.905|0.921|0.913|0.921|0
MacDonald|7|4|0.897|0.906|0.9005|0.902|0
Schneider|6|3|0.896|0.898|0.897|0.896|0.5

In the process of doing some analysis on the goalies and thought I would share. Average seasons do not include World Juniors, or small sample sizes under 20 games. Rittich is better than I thought breaking down the numbers then I looked at some highlights and he may be a good find. Would not be surprised to see Gilles and/or Rittich getting some games this season.

Gilles does not quite have the Corey Schnieder track record but he does outperform Quick, Bishop, and Jones on their timelines.

Rittich compares with all the goalies I just mentioned.

The more I read and watch about Parsons the more impressed I am with that pick.

You really can't apply stats like that to goaltenders in different leagues, at different places in their dev curves, behind vastly different tiers of teams. I wish you could, but the data even in a "high danger" stat is largely insufficient to draw any conclusion. If you have thst data though it may be worthwhile to do it as a Rel stst to comlare to other goalies in the same leagues and see where each Flmes goal ranked from the top along with modifiers based on age relative to league average for the position. Just a suggestion.