GDT: Flames @ Devils, 7 PM, MSG+

[Emperoreddy]

Small sample size or not, it is undeniable that in the few games Appleby had on an NHL roster, those games were as good as Kinkaid's best through a much larger 19 game sample size.

Appleby started one game. Gave up 3 goals with a .889 save percentage.

You are basing your entire argument on two relief performances and willfully ignoring his only start.

 

[Bleedred]

An example of that is: Bernier looked pretty unbeatable for a week back when Nate MacKinnon was in the lineup - he goes down for injury and now they can't figure out if Bernier or Varlamov is their number one because the team just sucks in front of both of them.

I haven't watched many of their games recently, but the Sharks sure did a good job of making Bernier look like one of the GOAT last game, with 38 saves on 39 shots. I think the quote from Pete was like ''If Bernier played us every night, he'd make $20 million a year''.

It is the Pete ''We can take a thousand shots and only score one goal'' system though.

 

[Bleedred]

Like I said in the team thread people are making WAY WAY too big a deal about this former team thing. Lack was a Flame barely as long as he's been a Devil. And he wasn't waived, he was traded fwiw.

This was a 'starting goalie' game, they weren't going to give Lack two out of three games (given the back to back this weekend) with KK coming off a three game winning streak.

He was waived earlier this year, then they started going with this Riddick guy, or whatever his name was. He was traded after being in the minors for a couple months.

I thought when we traded for him, Kinkaid maybe wasn't on the hot seat, but was starting to get close.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Small sample size or not, it is undeniable that in the few games Appleby had on an NHL roster, those games were as good as Kinkaid's best through a much larger 19 game sample size.

I'll say this - two of the goals tonight were terrible, and I don't remember Appleby giving up a terrible goal.

I'd rather see him over Lack, for sure.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I haven't watched many of their games recently, but the Sharks sure did a good job of making Bernier look like one of the GOAT last game, with 38 saves on 39 shots. I think the quote from Pete was like ''If Bernier played us every night, he'd make $20 million a year''.

It is the Pete ''We can take a thousand shots and only score one goal'' system though.

Yeah - I picked him up in fantasy and watched some of his games and they made him look like a #1... and he got pulled tonight.

 

[Bleedred]

People are also missing that shoddy defense is playing just as big a role as shoddy goaltending.

The way they played, good goaltending maybe steals them one point out of the past two games, but not much more.

You can switch goalies, but the D can’t be blowing coverages and getting pulled so badly out of position time and time again.

They are getting pulled out of lanes too easily on rushes, they are losing their man far too often. Moore has been the biggest offender, but in fairness almost all of them are doing it.

Not good enough of an excuse, this goaltending is abysmal, it's getting to be Thomas Greiss bad and the Islanders have an even worse defense than us. Do you think we have the worse defense in the league? Kinkaid has been leaking goals all year long. How can you say Greiss is bad and Kinkaid is not to be blamed? They've been pretty similar this year and the Islanders are a worse team, allowing many more shots than we do.

Kinkaid has been bad all year long (not to be confused with meaning that he hasn't played one or maybe even 5 good games all year long) and these shoddy defensive plays are more noticeable when you can't get a save.

Like I keep saying, it's not hard to be a better goaltender than Kinkaid has been this year. Outside of Hedberg 5 years ago, we have not seen goaltending this bad on our team since the early 2000's? Not counting when we barely ever saw Clemmensen or Weekes between 2005-2008 when Marty was healthy.

He's been bad, I can think of 5 stoppable goals in the last two games, and even if he allows some of those stoppable goals, we probably get a point or two between these last two games.

 

[AveryQuietMan]

I agree with MOST of this- but here's where it breaks down:
If we have to play 5 more games without Cory, I think Hynes firmly believes that KK gives us a better chance to win.

Could Lack have done a better job tonight - sure. I don't think he has quite the emotional attachment to CGY as he does say, VAN - so I'm not sure if he really wants to stick it to 'his old team'.

I think Hynes was hoping KK gets back on the horse tonight and he can ride him in the next game. If he had gone with Lack, then what happens? Do you go back to Lack the next game?

I think the problem is out there on the ice moreso than in the net.

An example of that is: Bernier looked pretty unbeatable for a week back when Nate MacKinnon was in the lineup - he goes down for injury and now they can't figure out if Bernier or Varlamov is their number one because the team just sucks in front of both of them.

i sure hope its just 5 more games. cant disagree with hynes on kk giving us the chance to win. hes def the better option.

i really just thought if there was any game you play lack its tonight. thats why i thought they switched him and appleby. so lack could play tonight. then i saw lack saying he would like to prove them wrong earlier in the day, forget where i saw it but it was in print, so i guess maybe i was just let down when i saw kk in net. then those 2 goals the 2nd and 3rd just set me off.

even if lack wins tonight you can go right back to KK i dont think that wouldve been a problem at all. if anything thats saying when cory is out KK is the starter and lack is the back-up and we are playing it like its business as usual. just with different guys.

i guess thats an ok example i just think we are seeing some poor goaltending from kk and dont see why we shouldnt point it out. not gonna say it was all him. obviously the plays were breakdowns but he really shouldve had goal 2 and 3 tonight. at the very least it shouldve went to OT.

no doubt there are problems but those goals were stoppable despite what led to them. we are depleted and already had a suspect lineup that was borderline. gibbions and mojo gone are huge pieces missing. now we are playing JQ. guess maybe im overreacting but im fed up with kink cant help it.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Appleby gave up 3 goals in his first start so he wasn’t a difference maker either.

.889 save percentage in that game.

Appleby in his own start got slapped around as well.

Did you watch that game? Nashville should have had 6 goals.

Not to mention, one of the goals Palmieri deflected into the Devils net, and one of the goals there's not a goalie in the entire NHL that could have stopped (a top corner laser off a 2 on 1 break).

 

[AveryQuietMan]

It comes to a point where you have to question some thing else is wrong.

Cory was getting banged around for a month before getting hurt. Now Keith is getting banged around. Appleby in his own start got slapped around as well.

If all three goalies who has started a game this year cant get consistent results, you have to start pointing the finger at the team in front of them.

ok but werent the 2nd and 3rd goals stoppable? no matter what led to them?

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't care who is in net at this point as long as it's not Kinkaid. I haven't disliked one of our guys this much in years. His **** play, his stupid Twitter nonsense. He sucks and he's a goof. I just want him gone.

That's a pretty random reason to dislike a guy, you sound like one of these guys that want everything to go back to Lou days where players were personality bots. I mean you don't have to care about the Twitter stuff but it's cute in its own way.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Not good enough of an excuse, this goaltending is abysmal, it's getting to be Thomas Greiss bad and the Islanders have an even worse defense than us. Do you think we have the worse defense in the league? Kinkaid has been leaking goals all year long. How can you say Greiss is bad and Kinkaid is not to be blamed? They've been pretty similar this year and the Islanders are a worse team, allowing many more shots than we do.

Kinkaid has been bad all year long (not to be confused with meaning that he hasn't played one or maybe even 5 good games all year long) and these shoddy defensive plays are more noticeable when you can't get a save.

Like I keep saying, it's not hard to be a better goaltender than Kinkaid has been this year. Outside of Hedberg 5 years ago, we have not seen goaltending this bad on our team since the early 2000's? Not counting when we barely ever saw Clemmensen or Weekes between 2005-2008 when Marty was healthy.

He's been bad, I can think of 5 stoppable goals in the last two games, and even if he allows some of those stoppable goals, we probably get a point or two between these last two games.

So why weren’t we winning with Cory? Why did Appleby also get blown out with 3 goals against?

You seem willfully ignorant of the team’s defensive issues in your vendetta against Kinkaid? Did he shoot your dog?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Did you watch that game? Nashville should have had 6 goals.

Not to mention, one of the goals Palmieri deflected into the Devils net, and one of the goals there's not a goalie in the entire NHL that could have stopped (a top corner laser off a 2 on 1 break).

Are you saying that games Kink has played the team’s were not prevented from scoring 6+ goals, or that freak fluke goals aren’t also scored on him?

This is mob scapegoating logic instead of actually looking at the real problems

 

[Bleedred]

ok but werent the 2nd and 3rd goals stoppable? no matter what led to them?

Watch the game highlights. The Sports Net commentator really gets on him for the third goal. I forgot what the quote was, I listened to it earlier and posted it verbatim a little while back. Basically said he needs to be over there by his post. And if the shot with hardly any angle doesn't beat him and hit the post before that, he doesn't even have to scramble.

He almost looks like he has no confidence at all right now and really doesn't know what to do.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Eddie Lack is the literal last person we should be putting in net. Might as well forfeit those games.

 

[AveryQuietMan]

but if you were gonna play lack, tonight was the night.

 

[Bleedred]

Eddie Lack is the literal last person we should be putting in net. Might as well forfeit those games.

Why? He wasn't even as bad the last two years (and he was bad) as Kinkaid has been this year. There's no basis to say this.

Scott Wedgewood had a 4 game hot streak a few years ago, and he's worse than Kinkaid. Any goalie is capable of it. Kinkaid had a 3 game hot streak last week.

It's worth a roll of the dice.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Why? He wasn't even as bad the last two years (and he was bad) as Kinkaid has been this year. There's no basis to say this.

Scott Wedgewood had a 4 game hot streak a few years ago, and he's worse than Kinkaid. Any goalie is capable of it. Kinkaid had a 3 game hot streak last week.

It's worth a roll of the dice.

He is trash, you yourself have piled on him for a long time, and only changed your mind recently because he isn’t Kinkaid.

Your strange obsession with Keith has you pretending you didn’t say Lack is a bum

 

[Bleedred]

So why weren’t we winning with Cory? Why did Appleby also get blown out with 3 goals against?

You seem willfully ignorant of the team’s defensive issues in your vendetta against Kinkaid? Did he shoot your dog?

These is beyond unnecessary.

Did he shoot my dog? This is not an indictment on him as a person, he's probably a good guy, but he's doing a very job at the job he has right now.

Doesn't mean he's a shitty person, but goalie is the most important position on the team and he's been very bad at goalie-ing this year. There's nothing more to it. Appleby allowed one goal he should have had in that start, the shorty at the end of the game.

And this whole thing with Cory, I've been over a lot. Cory was on a rough streak for the last few weeks he played, but he had a very good 6-8 games or so before that. He won 5 in a row and 6 of 7 before this (where Kinkaid was benched, even in a couple back to back's because he stunk before that) and he looked GOOD while doing it. Kinkaid has consistently played poorly all year long, even when Cory was killing it.

Too many stoppable goals. He's been a bad goalie this year, and goalie is the most important position on the team. Last two games alone? Goal 1 was kind of stoppable. Goal 3 sucked, goal 4 was terrible. Tonight? Goal 2 was stoppable. Not his fault, but certainly stoppable. He looked like a boob on goal 3. Even Sports Net's commentator thought so.

This is much more different than ripping on other guys that I've given a lot of shit too. Josefson and Kalinin, 2014-2015 Zubrus, all pretty trivial compared to the goaltending position which is the most important in the game.

 

[Bleedred]

He is trash, you yourself have piled on him for a long time, and only changed your mind recently because he isn’t Kinkaid.

Your strange obsession with Keith has you pretending you didn’t say Lack is a bum

Lack IS a bum. I NEVER backtracked on that. This is more about Kinkaid being lousy than Lack all of the sudden being good.

This is not about me changing my position on Lack, this is about TRYING something new. Any goalie, even the bad ones, can have a hot streak and it's time to see if he has one in him. Wedgewood had one in back in 2016, and he sucks worse than Kinkaid, yet he still had a better 4 game stretch that year than Kinkaid had.

At any rate, we NEED a better goalie than either of them next year. Neither one will likely be in the NHL next year. Kinkaid is in Bingo next year, barring injuries and a call up.

 

[NJDevs26]

The thing is most people have pretty much given up the ghost on the D being anything other than crap, especially as long as they're going to bypass Mueller and Santini for Lovejoy. But the goaltending is theoretically more correctable. We've seen Keith do well behind a crap defense (2014 and 2016). We've seen Cory do well with a crap defense (2015 and stretches this year). Both need to pick it up. But if Cory's going to remain on IR and Keith's going to give up three or more a game then Hynes really needs to stop screwing around and try other guys like Brent Sutter did with Clemmensen. Sutter pulled the plus on Weekes pretty darn fast for Clemmensen.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Are you saying that games Kink has played the team’s were not prevented from scoring 6+ goals, or that freak fluke goals aren’t also scored on him?

It's not the "freak fluke goals" we have to worry about, it's the easily stoppable goals that Kinkaid is letting in.

And no, I generally dont think Kinky "steals" games in which the other team would have scored 6 goals. Not saying he's never done that, but it's exceptionally rare when he does.

I mean, statistically speaking, he is now after tonight one of the worst goalies in the entire NHL. And the only few goalies he's ahead of play on teams WELL out of the playoffs (Arizona, Islanders, Buffalo SEE LINK BELOW) on teams way worse than the Devils - in other words, Kinkaid's stats are even worse than they already first appear.

I'm sorry, there's no way to polish this turd or dress it up with happy talk.


NHL.com - Stats

 

[Bleedred]

The thing is most people have pretty much given up the ghost on the D being anything other than crap, especially as long as they're going to bypass Mueller and Santini for Lovejoy. But the goaltending is theoretically more correctable. We've seen Keith do well behind a crap defense (2014 and 2016). We've seen Cory do well with a crap defense (2015 and stretches this year). Both need to pick it up. But if Cory's going to remain on IR and Keith's going to give up three or more a game then Hynes really needs to stop screwing around and try other guys like Brent Sutter did with Clemmensen. Sutter pulled the plus on Weekes pretty darn fast for Clemmensen.

Clemmensen is a really good example.

Clemmensen was a TERRIBLE goaltender at the NHL level before 2008 when Sutter tried him out. He was terrible before that. He had 3 or 4 really good starts (2 were shutouts) in 03-04, much like the 2016 Scott Wedgewood games, then he was really bad the next two NHL years AND he wasn't good in the AHL either. He washed out of the NHL after we let him go the first time, and he was a UFA in 2006 and nobody signed him, but we brought him back a week or two before the regular season started, if I recall. When we brought him back in 2008, he was signed to play in Lowell and mentor Frazee.

And I still believe that even in 08-09, he didn't look very good doing it, but he usually played well enough where he wasn't allowing 3-4 goals most nights. He failed the eye test, I couldn't believe how high of a save percentage he had, with some of the goals he allowed and I always felt that way about him. My friend and I joked that if he stopped a lot of his bad goals, he might be one of the best goalies ever, because he gave up a lot clunky goals, while posting good numbers.

 

[Bleedred]

It's not the "freak fluke goals" we have to worry about, it's the easily stoppable goals that Kinkaid is letting in.

And no, I generally dont think Kinky "steals" games in which the other team would have scored 6 goals. Not saying he's never done that, but it's exceptionally rare when he does.

I mean, statistically speaking, he is now after tonight one of the worst goalies in the entire NHL. And the only few goalies he's ahead of play on teams WELL out of the playoffs (Arizona, Islanders, Buffalo SEE LINK BELOW) on teams way worse than the Devils - in other words, his stats are even worse than they already first appear.

I'm sorry, there's no way to polish this turd or dress it up with happy talk.


NHL.com - Stats

I've come to accept that Kinkaid is just a fluctuating goaltender from year to year. I thought there was a good chance that he'd have a poor year this season, but I never thought it would be this bad. I figured it would be maybe .903-.905 like in the 15-16 season. Just to get to that this year, he'd have to play quite a few more games and he'd have to a really good extended streak of games just to get to that level. Like a prolonged stretch of a couple shutouts/one goal games. Maybe like a couple games where he faces A LOT of shots and the team plays worse than they've played in any game he's played this year, and he plays like he did in Pittsburgh in November of 2016 or in Washington in December of 2016.

 

[mtnet]

Wow hovering just above Darling and Greiss?

Woof...

 

[Satans Hockey]

That's a pretty random reason to dislike a guy, you sound like one of these guys that want everything to go back to Lou days where players were personality bots. I mean you don't have to care about the Twitter stuff but it's cute in its own way.

Well you're wrong there, I'm glad Lou is gone, Ray has done an incredible job so far and the guys can do whatever they want on their social media but Keith comes across as a dumb goof, I can't stand his interviews either. I just don't like anything about the guy.

Hating on a specific player is not something I've ever normally done but I simply just don't like him.