Confirmed with Link: Flames acquire Travis Hamonic and 4th from Islanders for 1st and two 2nds

[Johnny Hoxville]

Yeah it's a really valid point, his contract makes him that much more valuable.

 

[Dertell]

A few thought:

- I had to skip a few parts of that video. My mom is one of the few people in my live who still cares about me, so this gave me too many thoughts I didn't want in my mind. I hope when he's not feeling well up there he has many people he feels like he can talk to.

- 1st + 2 2nd for a 3-years UFA is an enormous price, independently speaking. It is a relatively fine price for a low end #2 defenseman. His usage suggests he's a #2 but his fancy stats most certainly doesn't. To be more specific, they indicate he can play at that level but that's because he's an up-and-down player.

Hopefully he has more ups than downs for us. He just came from a down year and has an [odd number] years left to his deal, so maybe?

- His contract (3.8M x 3) is very nice, assuming best case scenario regarding his play.

- The question isn't can he play top pairing minutes, but should he? Gio-Hamilton was the best pair in the league last year and I think they didn't play enough at even strength. At the very least, you can't make a better pair with the pieces we have. I hope GG's usage will reflects that, but I'm skeptical.

- Little has been said about our lack of offense. According to naturalstattrick.com, the flames were 21st at generating shots 5v5 (23rd scoring chances, 24th high scoring chances) and 20th at scoring. That's not contender numbers, not even playoff caliber. Our PP was like, slightly above average and they were carried by the "2nd" unit.

- Our 5v5 forward scoring was very middle of the road; right in the middle between the Canucks, Coyotes, Sabres and the Kings, Devils and Avs.

- On the other hand, we were 5th in the league at suppressing shots (6rd scoring chances, 9th high SC). 13th GA is a little lower, but that's even more random and we already traded for a goalie... Our PK was top 10 too.

- I wanted a better defense as well, I don't care about "addressing needs", but I think they do and that's why I'm bothered by the implications of the things they're doing. I'd like if for once they stopped ignoring their secondary scoring issues. Hell, not just secondary really.

- Also, with Engelland gone, hopefully they bring a good defensive partner to play with Kulak. We'll see.

 

[Mr Snrub]

- The question isn't can he play top pairing minutes, but should he? Gio-Hamilton was the best pair in the league last year and I think they didn't play enough at even strength. At the very least, you can't make a better pair with the pieces we have. I hope GG's usage will reflects that, but I'm skeptical.

I also hope we don't see Hamonic on the top pair. In my opinion Hamilton is our best defenseman, although Gio had a bit of a down year from what we've come to expect and there's every reason to believe he may bounce back next season. Nonetheless that pair makes sense as our top unit, Hamonic is not at all a better all-around defenseman than Dougie.

- Little has been said about our lack of offense. According to naturalstattrick.com, the flames were 21st at generating shots 5v5 (23rd scoring chances, 24th high scoring chances) and 20th at scoring. That's not contender numbers, not even playoff caliber. Our PP was like, slightly above average and they were carried by the "2nd" unit.

- Our 5v5 forward scoring was very middle of the road; right in the middle between the Canucks, Coyotes, Sabres and the Kings, Devils and Avs.

I'm hoping that Johnny bouncing back from his poor year might solve a few of these problems; internal offensive growth from Tkachuk, Bennett and Ferland would be nice, too.

 

[InfinityIggy]

You keep Gio and Hamilton as the top pair.

Then you put Brodie and Hamonic together and laugh hysterically at your good fortune.

 

[Calculon]

Treliving already said

a) ultimately it's up to the coaches
b) but right now it's looking like Hamonic will be partnered with Brodie

 

[Tofveve]

I think I like this.

 

[Anglesmith]

Still can't believe we got Hamonic. You just don't get actually good defencemen in their prime with good contracts and term through trade. It just doesn't happen. The cost of it should be prohibitive. But we didn't lose anything that would factor until 2019/20. Can't believe it.

 

[JurassicTunga]

The fact the Flames were able to get TWO top, young, proven defensemen for a handful of picks is truly amazing. GMs always say that top defensemen are so hard to acquire, let alone young ones who can fit right into your core. Teams just don't give those guys up. Trewinning.

 

[DFF]

The fact the Flames were able to get TWO top, young, proven defensemen for a handful of picks is truly amazing. GMs always say that top defensemen are so hard to acquire, let alone young ones who can fit right into your core. Teams just don't give those guys up. Trewinning.

Draft picks are capital so in that sense, they Flames paid a lot.

But if you really look at it, only the first rounder is actually meaningful. The 2nd rounders normally get you guys like Hunter Smith, Mason MacDonald, Patrick Seiloff, Wortherspoon....etc

If the Flames used those picks and come out with one guy like Hamonic, it's a big win.

 

[BigRangy]

When your team isn't godawful at drafting it's easy to justify 2nd round picks being worthless.

But every year, at least 1 Hamonic caliber player will probably go in that 45-75 range and sometimes more, you just need to find them

Gostisbehere in 2012
Kucherov, Saad in 2011
Toffoli, Gudas in 2010
Tatar, Barrie in 2009
Stepan, Hamonic in 2008

You'll never get a chance to hit on a 2nd if you keep trading them away

 

[DFF]

When your team isn't godawful at drafting it's easy to justify 2nd round picks being worthless.

But every year, at least 1 Hamonic caliber player will probably go in that 45-75 range and sometimes more, you just need to find them

Gostisbehere in 2012
Kucherov, Saad in 2011
Toffoli, Gudas in 2010
Tatar, Barrie in 2009
Stepan, Hamonic in 2008

You'll never get a chance to hit on a 2nd if you keep trading them away

Yes, but you have to try for 10 yrs to get one

but yeah, everybody buys lottery tickets

 

[Volica]

Still can't believe we got Hamonic. You just don't get actually good defencemen in their prime with good contracts and term through trade. It just doesn't happen. The cost of it should be prohibitive. But we didn't lose anything that would factor until 2019/20. Can't believe it.

All be it a tad younger, but the Oilers had to spend a top 5 LW in the game to acquire a defenceman who is statistically fairly comparable to Hamonic. The fact Calgary in a span of two years have used no player off their roster and no prospects from their cupboard to acquire two legitimate top 4 Dmen who've been used in top pairing roles is pretty damn impressive.

I'm also still in a state of 'wow, I really can't believe we got Hammer' but we certainly did.

 

[DFF]

The fact Calgary in a span of two years have used no player off their roster and no prospects from their cupboard to acquire two legitimate top 4 Dmen who've been used in top pairing roles is pretty damn impressive.

.

I like the deals but we cant pretend it didnt cost us.

Those picks should have turned into some very good prospects.

 

[Volica]

When your team isn't godawful at drafting it's easy to justify 2nd round picks being worthless.

But every year, at least 1 Hamonic caliber player will probably go in that 45-75 range and sometimes more, you just need to find them

Gostisbehere in 2012
Kucherov, Saad in 2011
Toffoli, Gudas in 2010
Tatar, Barrie in 2009
Stepan, Hamonic in 2008

You'll never get a chance to hit on a 2nd if you keep trading them away

If ONE of:
Andersson, Fox or Kylington pans out as a top 4D; I don't think you can really poo-poo the Flames for spending assets to acquire legit NHL'ers.

It also helps that this core is so damn young that they still have 3-4 years to really start requiring the system to start churning out some NHL'ers. Right now it's all bonus, as there's guys locked up with good term and ELC's/Bridges (Chucky/Bennett). Unlike Chicago, Pittsburgh and soon-to-be Edmonton, spending a ton of cap on players won't effect Calgary... There won't be two players combined on this team ever making 18+ million on the Flames. Think about that. Gio + Gaudreau is 13.5 million; 5 million+ shy of what those teams have to pay their top talents (don't get me wrong, I'd love to have McDavid on the Flames) but that's the difference of having to slot a 900k ELC into a tough role and having a solid 20-30 scorer on a line.

 

[tyflames]

I like the deals but we cant pretend it didnt cost us.

Those picks should have turned into some very good prospects.

This. I like the trades but for a team that is all about the future and doing this rebuild as a "long process". It's a bit puzzling. The picks are lottery tickets.

I just hope now with the top 4 cemented that Trelivings days of giving up first and second round picks are done.

However as others pointed out. We need more offense. Curious on if/how the flames get that sorted out.

 

[Calgareee]

If we can somehow get Stone on a decent contract I'll be stoked. Would likely be top 5 in the league as far as defensive depth. Would be a heck of a change from the last few years.

Would still love to see a solid RW come to town, be it Williams or Neal or some other guy.

 

[Calgareee]

This. I like the trades but for a team that is all about the future and doing this rebuild as a "long process". It's a bit puzzling. The picks are lottery tickets.

I just hope now with the top 4 cemented that Trelivings days of giving up first and second round picks are done.

However as others pointed out. We need more offense. Curious on if/how the flames get that sorted out.

We have a ton of defensive depth in the system. So much so that they're going to be fighting for playing time.

Forward is where we're a little light and I wouldn't mind some picks being made but ultimately if we want to start being competitive now most of those picks wouldn't be contributing for another 3-6 years.

 

[Lunatik]

DFF likes to talk out of both sides of his mouth eh? The other day he was talking about how all overvalue picks, now complaining about dealing picks for a top 4 defenseman.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

When your team isn't godawful at drafting it's easy to justify 2nd round picks being worthless.

But every year, at least 1 Hamonic caliber player will probably go in that 45-75 range and sometimes more, you just need to find them

Gostisbehere in 2012
Kucherov, Saad in 2011
Toffoli, Gudas in 2010
Tatar, Barrie in 2009
Stepan, Hamonic in 2008

You'll never get a chance to hit on a 2nd if you keep trading them away

We'll get a 2nd or 3rd for Stajan at the deadline barring some massive Brouwer-effect.

 

[Anglesmith]

This. I like the trades but for a team that is all about the future and doing this rebuild as a "long process". It's a bit puzzling. The picks are lottery tickets.

Right, but the concept of selling a lottery ticket for a fair price isn't a puzzling one at all. We traded assets with a chance to produce Hamilton and Hamonic for Hamilton and Hamonic. Of course the picks had a chance to produce better than that, but they also had a significant chance to produce much less.

If someone offers me $50 for an unscratched scratch card, I take it every time.

 

[Lunatik]

Is McDaigle seriously complaining about trading seconds based what amounts to a 3.333% chance we "might" be able to get a similar player to Hamonic?

 

[Fig]

I like the deals but we cant pretend it didnt cost us.

Those picks should have turned into some very good prospects.

Looking around at the landscape, I think we have a good chance of going far next season. Looking at the west, I see this:

- Hawks (Weaker than this season, but still dangerous)
- Wild (Possibly weaker than this season if they are talking about moving D)
- Blues (Overall Unchanged)
- Ducks (Overall Unchanged)
- Oilers (Overall Unchanged)
- Sharks (Likely to be weaker depending on trades/UFA)
- Preds (Likely to be weaker depending on trades/UFA)

Of the teams that missed, I think LA is the same, Arizona is stronger and a dark horse and Stars are unchanged.

Our team is one of the few in the current landscape that is significantly stronger on paper. Specifically due to addition by subtraction as well as adding Hamonic. This is the perfect time to strike. Picks won't do us any good since they probably won't develop an impactful player during the cup window. It's a gamble, but two seasons of relying on our prospect pipeline + UFAs isn't a bad gamble.

Put it this way, picks are valuable because it gives you an option to acquire a good player to add to the roster. It in some senses essentially means you don't trust your roster or players on the roster. I look at our roster and it's good. Not elite like other teams, but well positioned. We also have some gaps, but IMO it looks like our prospects should be able to step in as needed.

Let's put it this way:

Defence: Set for 3 years. Expect prospects to take on bottom pairing duties for next 3 years. That's good.

Forwards: Top 6 set for 1-2 years, extensions not a worry IMO, can extend 1-2 years to 4-5 years afterwards. Cap likely not a major issue.

Bottom 6 is fine as well set for 1-2 years, and with some ELC guys stepping in and UFA, we can keep extending that by a year or two as we go along.

Goaltending: Set for 2 seasons. We will likely extend that later on, but landscape is unknown as at this point. Unsure if it will be set internally or via external acquisition.

I think teams catch up in year 2. Year 3 and 4 we have picks again and can determine if we need to pay for a rental to push us over the hump.

I am ok with management essentially declaring the rebuild is done and now it's time to fine tune and go all in. We need players to help now, not in a few seasons. Our team is now dangerous at a very opportune time.

 

[MonarchFlames]

Is McDaigle seriously complaining about trading seconds based what amounts to a 3.333% chance we "might" be able to get a similar player to Hamonic?

Even if the second rounder does become better than say Hamonic. That doesn't mean we would've picked that player. All that means is the team picked a good player at that pick.

 

[Bronson]

Islanders fan here: you got a really good defender and a true gentleman off the ice. I hope Snow can ship out the draft picks you sent us asap so I can cheer for you in the Western conference.

 

[King In The North]

A few thought:

- I had to skip a few parts of that video. My mom is one of the few people in my live who still cares about me, so this gave me too many thoughts I didn't want in my mind. I hope when he's not feeling well up there he has many people he feels like he can talk to.

- 1st + 2 2nd for a 3-years UFA is an enormous price, independently speaking. It is a relatively fine price for a low end #2 defenseman. His usage suggests he's a #2 but his fancy stats most certainly doesn't. To be more specific, they indicate he can play at that level but that's because he's an up-and-down player.

Hopefully he has more ups than downs for us. He just came from a down year and has an [odd number] years left to his deal, so maybe?

- His contract (3.8M x 3) is very nice, assuming best case scenario regarding his play.

- The question isn't can he play top pairing minutes, but should he? Gio-Hamilton was the best pair in the league last year and I think they didn't play enough at even strength. At the very least, you can't make a better pair with the pieces we have. I hope GG's usage will reflects that, but I'm skeptical.

- Little has been said about our lack of offense. According to naturalstattrick.com, the flames were 21st at generating shots 5v5 (23rd scoring chances, 24th high scoring chances) and 20th at scoring. That's not contender numbers, not even playoff caliber. Our PP was like, slightly above average and they were carried by the "2nd" unit.

- Our 5v5 forward scoring was very middle of the road; right in the middle between the Canucks, Coyotes, Sabres and the Kings, Devils and Avs.

- On the other hand, we were 5th in the league at suppressing shots (6rd scoring chances, 9th high SC). 13th GA is a little lower, but that's even more random and we already traded for a goalie... Our PK was top 10 too.

- I wanted a better defense as well, I don't care about "addressing needs", but I think they do and that's why I'm bothered by the implications of the things they're doing. I'd like if for once they stopped ignoring their secondary scoring issues. Hell, not just secondary really.

- Also, with Engelland gone, hopefully they bring a good defensive partner to play with Kulak. We'll see.

Great points Dertell, we're also always here if you need to talk.

Statistically speaking, were we a good enough possession team to be generating more shots?