GDT: FLAMES (29-23-13) vs. DUCKS (21-35-9) | 7 p.m. MT | TV: Sportsnet West | RADIO: Sportsnet 960 The FAN

[flames23]

Sorry to hear. That's some bad luck.

Nah what I'm saying is I made another emotional hedging bet. I bet ducks to win knowing flames can't get out of their own way. Hated it winning, but we shouldn't be favoured to beat any team 75%+ of the time.

 

[Kranix]

I understand we can't win a cup without Lewis and looch on the top line, but to even get to the dance can we throw in two of Ruzicka/Phillips/Zary? Ofc not.

I'm fine with Ruzicka and Duehr being in for Lewis and Lucic. Lucic is just awful. He still hits the most on the team, but gives the puck away a ton for how much he actually plays and touches the puck. Duehr brings the same game and shoots more, and doesn't cough it up as much. Ruzicka doesn't bring enough to the table, but has more ability and is less of a liability than Looch. Zary, no thanks. Phillips, I guarantee won't have an NHL career.

 

[DFF]

I don't understand how Sutter has had the success he's had.

He undermines confidence in nearly every player (Lucic and Toffoli being the two exceptions) by odd usage and non-usage/press-box placement (Ruzicka, Duehr). He plays the worst player on the team nearly the most and in prime moments where we need our most skilled out there instead of him. He constantly has the lines in a blender, but oddly 1st and 4th lines seem interchangable in his scheme of things. There's no cohesion, no team gelling, no chemistry. Our PP looks like dog crap (ok Muller can take most of the blame for that). He's created a system where everyone is so undermined that they play down to the lowest mean. We have no scoring threat when we desperately need it (which with all the PPs we get we shouldn't even need on a night like tonight). He's contributed to a floundering, confidenceless #1 goaltender until he finally voices belief in him ironically with us on the brink of playoff elimination (and lo and behold Markstrom responds). What a gong-show.

Sutter had success when the players committed to his system/way and winning. When they started losing, it’s them , it’s not up to him to adjust or make changes. Eventually they give up. This happened all the time. Sutter’s expiry date is past due on this group

 

[MM917]

I don't understand how Sutter has had the success he's had.

He undermines confidence in nearly every player (Lucic and Toffoli being the two exceptions) by odd usage and non-usage/press-box placement (Ruzicka, Duehr). He plays the worst player on the team nearly the most and in prime moments where we need our most skilled out there instead of him. He constantly has the lines in a blender, but oddly 1st and 4th lines seem interchangable in his scheme of things. There's no cohesion, no team gelling, no chemistry. Our PP looks like dog crap (ok Muller can take most of the blame for that). He's created a system where everyone is so undermined that they play down to the lowest mean. We have no scoring threat when we desperately need it (which with all the PPs we get we shouldn't even need on a night like tonight). He's contributed to a floundering, confidenceless #1 goaltender until he finally voices belief in him ironically with us on the brink of playoff elimination (and low and behold Markstrom responds). What a gong-show.

How is it hard to understand? When he has quality players who are willing to buy into winning, the way he sets the team up is perfect to play winning hockey, especially when the games tighten up in the play-offs.

What is a problem is when you have weak players like we do now who are incapable of playing within a system and can't handle the fact they are mediocre.

The fact that fans are crying about plugs like Ruzicka and Duehr not playing shows how awful our roster is. These are AHL level talent, if our team is struggling because we don't have AHLers in we are in much bigger trouble that made up narratives that a multiple Cup winning coach, with 700+ wins being a shit coach.

 

[DomBarr]

How is it hard to understand? When he has quality players who are willing to buy into winning, the way he sets the team up is perfect to play winning hockey, especially when the games tighten up in the play-offs.

What is a problem is when you have weak players like we do now who are incapable of playing within a system and can't handle the fact they are mediocre.

The fact that fans are crying about plugs like Ruzicka and Duehr not playing shows how awful our roster is. These are AHL level talent, if our team is struggling because we don't have AHLers in we are in much bigger trouble that made up narratives that a multiple Cup winning coach, with 700+ wins being a shit coach.

His ability to impact this roster is expired. this is the 3rd season he has coached this version of the Flames.

Sutter and Torts both have a 3 season expiry with no credit for part seasons. How teams forget this and give them extensions that cover the 4th and 5th season I have no idea

 

[Tofveve]

How is it hard to understand? When he has quality players who are willing to buy into winning, the way he sets the team up is perfect to play winning hockey, especially when the games tighten up in the play-offs.

What is a problem is when you have weak players like we do now who are incapable of playing within a system and can't handle the fact they are mediocre.

The fact that fans are crying about plugs like Ruzicka and Duehr not playing shows how awful our roster is. These are AHL level talent, if our team is struggling because we don't have AHLers in we are in much bigger trouble that made up narratives that a multiple Cup winning coach, with 700+ wins being a shit coach.

How can you say Ruzicka is a plug when he was one of our highest point getters over his first 10 or so games then Sutter starts his mind-games, demoting him, sitting him in the press box. Meanwhile plugs like Coleman, Mangi and Dube get endless leash. The jury is out on Duehr but I disagree with Adam being called a plug when he has yet to be given any leash while performing strongly when given a chance (notwithstanding the odd jitter).

 

[MM917]

His ability to impact this roster is expired. this is the 3rd season he has coached this version of the Flames.

Sutter and Torts both have a 3 season expiry with no credit for part seasons. How teams forget this and give them extensions that cover the 4th and 5th season I have no idea

I don't think Sutter is the problem, but I don't think that he has done an amazing job either so if we want to move on from him or if he has reached his expiry date with the team fair enough, I just think switching the coach but not making major changes to the roster will result in the same situation next season.

 

[MM917]

How can you say Ruzicka is a plug when he was one of our highest point getters over his first 10 or so games then Sutter starts his mind-games, demoting him, sitting him in the press box. Meanwhile plugs like Coleman, Mangi and Dube get endless leash. The jury is out on Duehr but I disagree with Adam being called a plug when he has yet to be given any leash while performing strongly when given a chance (notwithstanding the odd jitter).

Because I don't judge players over 10 games. Ruzicka is 23 years old and had plenty of chances to show what he is and at no point has he shown any indication that is he anything other than meh.

Dube is lightyears more talented and shown levels Ruzicka could never hope to reach. Mangiapane is frustrating for me but still so much better than Ruzicka. I am no Coleman fan but that is more because of his deal than his play, offers a lot more than Ruzicka.

The jury isn't out on Duehr. He is 25 and a AHler/4th liner. Nothing wrong with that plenty of guys like him but him being in or out of the line-up changes nothing for our team.

 

[Tofveve]

Because I don't judge players over 10 games. Ruzicka is 23 years old and had plenty of chances to show what he is and at no point has he shown any indication that is he anything other than meh.

Dube is lightyears more talented and shown levels Ruzicka could never hope to reach. Mangiapane is frustrating for me but still so much better than Ruzicka. I am no Coleman fan but that is more because of his deal than his play, offers a lot more than Ruzicka.

The jury isn't out on Duehr. He is 25 and a AHler/4th liner. Nothing wrong with that plenty of guys like him but him being in or out of the line-up changes nothing for our team.

Ruzicks has not been given many lengthy stretches despite being 23, sorry.

*edit

We have these small players in Mangi, Dube and Coleman who struggle positionally often and yet we've got a 6'4" player in Ruz who is completely comfortable securing position along the boards and around the net, has good hands, good shot, good hockey sense; but he's constantly involved with coaching/management mind games. To me Adam could be a bigger Backlund like player or better. Instead he's relegated to no-mans land, the press box or the Wranglers.

Duehr has looked very good while playing.

This management should be getting these bloated contracts taking up spots for these younger guys with lots of upside. IMO.

 

[MM917]

Ruzicks has not been given many lengthy stretches despite being 23, sorry.

He had time in juniors, AHL and 28 and 41 games this year. How is that not enough?

At some point he has show something to earn time to play and this year he hasn't done anything to show he should play more.

 

[Tofveve]

He had time in juniors, AHL and 28 and 41 games this year. How is that not enough?

At some point he has show something to earn time to play and this year he hasn't done anything to show he should play more.

I don't agree with your take at all. He's shown more than enough and most of these "games" are tainted with constant mind-game line juggling from 1st to 4th with 10 seconds of 2nd unit PP time. Meanwhile these other guys which all struggle on the physical side of things if not completely rested and fueled have owned spots for years with absolute roller-coaster consistency.

 

[MM917]

I don't agree with your take at all. He's shown more than enough and most of these "games" are tainted with constant mind-game line juggling from 1st to 4th with 10 seconds of 2nd unit PP time. Meanwhile these other guys which all struggle on the physical side of things if not completely rested and fueled have owned spots for years with absolute roller-coaster consistency.

Mind game line juggling? That is just a BS excuse.

The guy isn't good enough so he has to be moved down the line-up and sat accordingly

 

[Tofveve]

Mind game line juggling? That is just a BS excuse.

The guy isn't good enough so he has to be moved down the line-up and sat accordingly

I disagree totally.

 

[BRobMint]

I don't understand how Sutter has had the success he's had.

“Sutter hockey” at it’s best is a frustrating, strong forechecking team that’s able to out work the opposition and wear them out. This current Flames team just isn’t suited for his brand of hockey. We don’t have the same level of “physically wear them out” players that the 04 Flames or the 2012/2014 Kings had. We definitely don’t have a prime Jonathan Quick or Miikka Kiprusoff in net either. And to add to all of that, Darryl is just a stubborn guy who’d rather lose his way than win another way. He’s just not a good match with this current Flames team

 

[lightstorm]

Because I don't judge players over 10 games. Ruzicka is 23 years old and had plenty of chances to show what he is and at no point has he shown any indication that is he anything other than meh.

Dube is lightyears more talented and shown levels Ruzicka could never hope to reach. Mangiapane is frustrating for me but still so much better than Ruzicka. I am no Coleman fan but that is more because of his deal than his play, offers a lot more than Ruzicka.

The jury isn't out on Duehr. He is 25 and a AHler/4th liner. Nothing wrong with that plenty of guys like him but him being in or out of the line-up changes nothing for our team.

lmao what a joke, have you thought of doing stand up?

23yo Dube (last year) 18 goals 14 assists for 32 points in 79 games
23yo Ruzicka (this year) 6 goals 14 assists in 41 games so 40 point pace over 82 games

Lightyears more talented hahaha

 

[MM917]

lmao what a joke, have you thought of doing stand up?

23yo Dube (last year) 18 goals 14 assists for 32 points in 79 games
23yo Ruzicka (this year) 6 goals 14 assists in 41 games so 40 point pace over 82 games

Lightyears more talented hahaha

On pace means nothing, NHL teams get nothing for on pace, on pace doesn't help you in any way.

Dube was more impressive in junior, more impressive in the AHL and much more impressive in the NHL. Multiple coaches have chose him over Ruzicka when given the chance.

If Ruzicka is some great player why has no team come to get him when he clearly is out of favor in Calgary? How come all these studs that we have never are taken by other teams? Never go on to great success elsewhere, never do anything?

Ruzicka is another in a long list of nothing players that fans hype up hoping they will be the secret solution to the teams problems, looking for an easy way out rather than just admitting the team and especially the garbage player isn't good enough.

 

[lightstorm]

On pace means nothing, NHL teams get nothing for on pace, on pace doesn't help you in any way.

Dube was more impressive in junior, more impressive in the AHL and much more impressive in the NHL. Multiple coaches have chose him over Ruzicka when given the chance.

If Ruzicka is some great player why has no team come to get him when he clearly is out of favor in Calgary? How come all these studs that we have never are taken by other teams? Never go on to great success elsewhere, never do anything?

Ruzicka is another in a long list of nothing players that fans hype up hoping they will be the secret solution to the teams problems, looking for an easy way out rather than just admitting the team and especially the garbage player isn't good enough.

You're clearly trolling here, so not going to debate this any further. On pace means nothing, but Dube's JUNIOR stats mean something today?

Ruzicka is outproducing Dube (at the same age), 20 points in first 28 games but he's a garbage player. Sure bud. Aren't you the guy who thought Bennett was a nothing player too?

What studs are you talking about? Are you high? Vali is the only player who was hyped here as a stud while not doing much at all, and even he's doing better elsewhere. Maybe Rittich too, but even he has better stats this year than our $6mil starter.

 

[crazyfisherman]

You're clearly trolling here, so not going to debate this any further. On pace means nothing, but Dube's JUNIOR stats mean something today?

Ruzicka is outproducing Dube (at the same age), 20 points in first 28 games but he's a garbage player. Sure bud. Aren't you the guy who thought Bennett was a nothing player too?

What studs are you talking about? Are you high? Vali is the only player who was hyped here as a stud while not doing much at all, and even he's doing better elsewhere. Maybe Rittich too, but even he has better stats this year than our $6mil starter.

I think ruzicka was extremely lucky pts wise to start the year, he picked up a bunch of pts early when he really didn't do anything. Slap the puck around the board and the D man pt shot goes in off a tip sort of lucky. I get serious Markus granlund vibe when I watch him, doesn't generate much, extremely vanilla, but got on a hot streak somehow. He uses he body as well as JG, and is prob one of the worst player on to team when it comes to winning puck battles and protecting the puck. he will never be a 4th liner and should never be played there again, but unfortunately top 3 lines has no space. Idk why he's never tried with huberdeau and kadri (maybe cuz he can't play rw and huberdeau said that he prefers lw). he would be one of the first players I would trade away because I think he's easily replaceable and should have perceived value around the league.

 

[MM917]

You're clearly trolling here, so not going to debate this any further. On pace means nothing, but Dube's JUNIOR stats mean something today?

Ruzicka is outproducing Dube (at the same age), 20 points in first 28 games but he's a garbage player. Sure bud. Aren't you the guy who thought Bennett was a nothing player too?

What studs are you talking about? Are you high? Vali is the only player who was hyped here as a stud while not doing much at all, and even he's doing better elsewhere. Maybe Rittich too, but even he has better stats this year than our $6mil starter.

I don’t think Bennett was a first line Center like some deluded fools but I really liked Bennett so no I didn’t think he was nothing.

Junior stats mean something when looking at players overall history yes. If he had impressive junior numbers maybe you could think there was more to his game than he was showing or more to his game than Dube but that isn’t the case. He was as unimpressive in junior as he is now.

Who said studs? You made that up.

 

[Bert Mckrakken]

MM917 you have the worst takes of anyone ive seen on these forums. Main boards included. Like honestly nothing makes you happy and you don't like anyone on the team. Everything you say sounds like another teams fan coming here to troll everyone.

If you are a fan of the flames... who hurt you? Like why are you such a negative dude, or dudette. Everytime I read your hot takes, just makes me laugh cause you don't really know anything about the game based on your post history.

 

[Tofveve]

I think ruzicka was extremely lucky pts wise to start the year, he picked up a bunch of pts early when he really didn't do anything. Slap the puck around the board and the D man pt shot goes in off a tip sort of lucky. I get serious Markus granlund vibe when I watch him, doesn't generate much, extremely vanilla, but got on a hot streak somehow. He uses he body as well as JG, and is prob one of the worst player on to team when it comes to winning puck battles and protecting the puck. he will never be a 4th liner and should never be played there again, but unfortunately top 3 lines has no space. Idk why he's never tried with huberdeau and kadri (maybe cuz he can't play rw and huberdeau said that he prefers lw). he would be one of the first players I would trade away because I think he's easily replaceable and should have perceived value around the league.

I literally have seen nothing but very solid play by Ruzicka with what he's been given (and qualifyiny that, he's been continually mind-f***ed by the coach: gets 2 pts on the PP gets demoted to the 4th and sat/press-boxed next game; that kind of shit). He's 6'4" and doesn't have to look like a jitterbug on speed to prove his spot. His body alone takes care of his positioning, he knows where to be, is good with his stick/puck-control and is IMO someone who should be playing in our top 3 lines full-time without having to worry any time something isn't perfect. I don't think he was lucky at all with the points he's gotten and in fact should have a lot more IMO.

 

[Tofveve]

“Sutter hockey” at it’s best is a frustrating, strong forechecking team that’s able to out work the opposition and wear them out. This current Flames team just isn’t suited for his brand of hockey. We don’t have the same level of “physically wear them out” players that the 04 Flames or the 2012/2014 Kings had. We definitely don’t have a prime Jonathan Quick or Miikka Kiprusoff in net either. And to add to all of that, Darryl is just a stubborn guy who’d rather lose his way than win another way. He’s just not a good match with this current Flames team

I agree generally with this, which is why he I'm sure doesn't like Ruz (because he's not continually looking to put someone through the plexiglass or fight). I'm sure Sutter isn't much of a fan of most of the European players we have but he inherited guys who've had their roles for a long time so he won't touch them. Anyway, I don't hate everything about DS and do actually understand him and his success more or less. But watching a ton of hockey from a ton of teams there are very few top clubs today who play his mind-numbing brand. In fact I don't think any top clubs do anymore.

 

[crazyfisherman]

I literally have seen nothing but very solid play by Ruzicka with what he's been given (and qualifyiny that, he's been continually mind-f***ed by the coach: gets 2 pts on the PP gets demoted to the 4th and sat/press-boxed next game; that kind of shit). He's 6'4" and doesn't have to look like a jitterbug on speed to prove his spot. His body alone takes care of his positioning, he knows where to be, is good with his stick/puck-control and is IMO someone who should be playing in our top 3 lines full-time without having to worry any time something isn't perfect. I don't think he was lucky at all with the points he's gotten and in fact should have a lot more IMO.

He hasn't had consistent time in the top 9 but I don't know if he ever well. Sutter just don't like him cuz he can't win puck battles, maybe once sutter's gone this year he will get a chance there. He's look horrendous as a 4th liner, Sutter wants the 4th line to grind it out and ruzicka is horrible at it, which in turn prob puts him further in Sutter's dog house.

 

[MM917]

MM917 you have the worst takes of anyone ive seen on these forums. Main boards included. Like honestly nothing makes you happy and you don't like anyone on the team. Everything you say sounds like another teams fan coming here to troll everyone.

If you are a fan of the flames... who hurt you? Like why are you such a negative dude, or dudette. Everytime I read your hot takes, just makes me laugh cause you don't really know anything about the game based on your post history.

You are free to have your opinion but this is such a laughable take it is hard to take seriously.

What have I said that is so crazy or out there? I don't rate players like Ruzicka, Duehr who are at best fringe players. How is that close to the worst takes? I don't think Pelltier is a top level prospect or someone who should be in the top 6 of a play-off team? Is that really a crazy opinion? I also think the Flames are in a bad spot in terms of being mediocre and going nowhere, to me that isn't even controversial and a pretty widely held view by Flames fans and non-Flames fans. What is it that is so odd or terrible about my views? I really don't post anything controversial at all.

In terms of making me happy, I don't think I am the only Flames fan that is unhappy with the current team. I will say this site seems to be very much on the rose-colored glasses side, which is fine, but I don't think it represents the feelings of the fan base on the whole. I think there are many like me who think we need full reset, that we should have gone for a rebuild in the summer and that the team has very few, if any, likeable players left. I think this is probably the lowest point in the clubs history in terms of no connection with the team overall for fans with the players and organization as a whole. Somebody said, and I apologize as it may come from another site which is a cesspool of crap, that when the Cup team was breaking up we had Fleury to take the mantle, then when he was leaving Jarome/Kipper and after them Johnny and Mony. Now there really is nothing with Gaudreau and Tkahcuk leaving. I don't think many are excited about a Hubredeau/Kadri led team. I know many here rate Hubredeau but I don't think he has the juice of a Fleury, Ignila, Gaudreau/Monahan to get fans excited.

You ask what it will take for me to be "happy" it would be some hope that things will improve for the team, some hope that there is some excitement for this team, some hope we might compete at some point. Now I have none of that. That is why I am pushing for a high draft pick I think having a young, exciting player would at least give me some of that. Right now I am sorry but for me Pelltier, Coronato, Phillips, Wolf etc. don't do anything for me. They might not be bad players, well for the NHL Phillips is, but I don't see any of them being difference makers or even top level guys. They are guys and we have plenty of those.

I agree generally with this, which is why he I'm sure doesn't like Ruz (because he's not continually looking to put someone through the plexiglass or fight). I'm sure Sutter isn't much of a fan of most of the European players we have but he inherited guys who've had their roles for a long time so he won't touch them. Anyway, I don't hate everything about DS and do actually understand him and his success more or less. But watching a ton of hockey from a ton of teams there are very few top clubs today who play his mind-numbing brand. In fact I don't think any top clubs do anymore.

But there are plenty of players that Sutter has liked and used in the past that wouldn't fight or put people through the plexiglass. I think it is a very lazy way to characterize his style of play.

 

[lightstorm]

I don’t think Bennett was a first line Center like some deluded fools but I really liked Bennett so no I didn’t think he was nothing.

Junior stats mean something when looking at players overall history yes. If he had impressive junior numbers maybe you could think there was more to his game than he was showing or more to his game than Dube but that isn’t the case. He was as unimpressive in junior as he is now.

Who said studs? You made that up.

You literally said this in post #141

"If Ruzicka is some great player why has no team come to get him when he clearly is out of favor in Calgary? How come all these studs that we have never are taken by other teams? Never go on to great success elsewhere, never do anything?"

what "all these studs" were you talking about? Vali was hyped, Rittich had us (all?) excited for a while, Fanbase was always 50/50 on Benny.