Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[BritainStix]

A lot of cases have publication bans in Canada, especially sexual assaults. In which case it is illegal for the media or any person to discuss the details of the case, especially the names of people/witnesses involved.

Many thanks. I didn't know this about Canadian law. Makes sense now.

 

[Tabarouette]

its being added to the all star game lol

"after the break Colin Mochrie makes us guess the names of the people involved in the WJC scandal, stay tuned!" [bet365 ad starts playing]

 

[AvroArrow]

Let’s remember the importance that they are innocent and require a trial before assuming guilt

Many women target men with false claims, especially those with wealth or status.

They don't just charge people on false claims like that. I can't go into detail but sadly a member of my family is currently going through the exact same thing, it took almost 2 years of gathering evidence/statements etc. from family and friends before the police could formally charge the accused.

The crown also put a publication ban on the case, they do by default in most of these kinds of cases to protect the identity of the victims (can be removed if the victim appeals, and they want the info to be public)

Very likely that, that is the same case here. Lots of women and girls don't come forward for several years because of being threatened and fear of their image being tainted in public. Sure there are instances of "false claims" but over 90% of the time that is not the case. It is a LOT of work/stress for all the family members involved, people don't just pull that for no reason.

If they've been told to surrender themselves, they have to within a set time frame, otherwise there will be a nation wide warrant out for their arrest and then their names will be public. Also they don't tell people to just surrender themselves unless they have sufficient evidence that suggests that the accused is guilty.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I imagine they’ll have reporters camped near the police station to see who comes in over the next couple of days

While that may be true, if they’re in the NHL, the police won’t hurry them up to appear.

 

[oldunclehue]

If they are being charged, why are they not being named at this point?

Likeliness is that the Crown Prosecution has approved charges, but the charges haven't been sworn yet. Once in custody and formally arrested, they will be interviewed (Canada has less stringent interrogation laws), and then released on conditions such as an Undertaking (conditions to attend a court date and abide by) or they will be released on a Release Order by a judge or justice which will mean charges are formally sworn and they have made "bail".

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

"after the break Colin Mochrie makes us guess the names of the people involved in the WJC scandal, stay tuned!" [bet365 ad starts playing]

That’s a Whose Line sketch I would watch

 

[OKR]

Not much of surprise at this point.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

How the Canadian system works is different than US.

They will likely be an "Arrest" the moment they show up at the police station and provide iD. They will then be read their Charter-based rights. In Canada you do not get a lawyer that comes with you to this.
They will not speak,as advised, so then charges will be laid. They will be processed and then released, with conditionons.

Reminder to everyone that there is a presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law, NOT the other way around.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

I hope that the players in question do surrender, and that due process is followed, and that the truth is unveiled.

Follow me and consider subscribing for just $5 a month if you agree.

 

[ERYX]

If they are being charged, why are they not being named at this point?

They are probably waiting to see what the terms of the inevitable publication ban are. In cases like these, publication bans to protect the identity of complainants/alleged victims is routine. But those orders are not made until the charge is laid and the case appears in Court, so police are being cautious so that they (a) don't get in trouble with the Court later, (b) don't run into liability issues.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Some guys who will have to take a leave of absence, if they haven’t already.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

The wording of it is kinda weird, to be honest.

Not sure why they're definitively saying they will be charged, but haven't been yet. It's a five year old case. It's not like this happened yesterday and you're trying to arrest them immediately and haven't had the time to file formal charges. It's been five years.

Maybe it's a difference between US and Canadian criminal system that I'm not aware of. I dunno.

 

[ERYX]

Be interesting to see, I'm sure the Crown Prosecutor has approved charges and agreed upon release conditions. In Canada most people are not afforded the right to leave the country when pending serious charges....as well as the USA often will not allow entry to the states if pending charges. Especially sexual assault charges.

So could any of the 5 playing hockey elsewhere have this be the end of their hockey season/career.

Rightfully so if the allegations are true, but also innocent until proven guilty.

Depends on the province WRT prosecutor "approving" charges. When I was a Crown Attorney in Winnipeg many years ago, there was a Crown pre-charge screening process. However, in Ontario, the police make the call -- they don't need approval from the Crown, but will sometimes seen input/advice.

Also WRT not being allowed to leave the country, this has not been my experience in 20 years practicing law in Manitoba and then Ontario. Generally, for someone with no prior record, what is required is a cash deposit to guarantee their return to the jurisdiction. Also keep in mind that the U.S. has extradition treaties with Canada so it's not like they'd be able to hide in the U.S. These guys make a lot of money so the cash deposit would be substantial, but I imagine they will be allowed to leave the country.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

They don't just charge people on false claims like that. I can't go into detail but sadly a member of my family is currently going through the exact same thing, it took almost 2 years of gathering evidence/statements etc. from family and friends before the police could formally charge the accused.

The crown also put a publication ban on the case, they do by default in most of these kinds of cases to protect the identity of the victims (can be removed if the victim appeals, and they want the info to be public)

Very likely that, that is the same case here. Lots of women and girls don't come forward for several years because of being threatened and fear of their image being tainted in public. Sure there are instances of "false claims" but over 90% of the time that is not the case. It is a LOT of work/stress for all the family members involved, people don't just pull that for no reason.

If they've been told to surrender themselves, they have to within a set time frame, otherwise there will be a nation wide warrant out for their arrest and then their names will be public. Also they don't tell people to just surrender themselves unless they have sufficient evidence that suggests that the accused is guilty.

Respect and agree with your stance on victim’s rights. But not sure I can sign on to the first statement. In the US at least, we have 1000s of innocent people in prison. Prosecutors have been known to prosecute people they know to be innocent by withholding exculpatory evidence among other misdeeds. In federal cases, the prosecution knowingly fatigues defendants financially into plea deals. So this idea that charges are only brought on guilty people seems factually incorrect to me.

 

[JKG33]

A lot of cases have publication bans in Canada, especially sexual assaults. In which case it is illegal for the media or any person to discuss the details of the case, especially the names of people/witnesses involved.

As it should be. Look at the Matt Araiza thing in college football. Lost his shot at the NFL over what amounted to be nothing, yet will still be guilty in the eyes of many.

We live in a world with social media where idiots are quick to judge before facts are out, and slow to back track when they're proven wrong. Publication bans are much needed.

 

[ERYX]

The wording of it is kinda weird, to be honest.

Not sure why they're definitively saying they will be charged, but haven't been yet. It's a five year old case. It's not like this happened yesterday and you're trying to arrest them immediately and haven't had the time to file formal charges. It's been five years.

Maybe it's a difference between US and Canadian criminal system that I'm not aware of. I dunno.

Yes, in Canada, you can't be charged until you're in police custody.

 

[oldunclehue]

How the Canadian system works is different than US.

They will likely be an "Arrest" the moment they show up at the police station and provide iD. They will then be read their Charter-based rights. In Canada you do not get a lawyer that comes with you to this.
They will not speak,as advised, so then charges will be laid. They will be processed and then released, with conditionons.

Reminder to everyone that there is a presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law, NOT the other way around.

Only thing here that is different, is in Canada, the Police can interrogate even if the accused says they won't talk and want their lawyer. Police can continue within reason to interview/interrogate the accused. Lawyer is allowed to be present throughout the interview process and in this case I guarantee if they interview them the lawyers will be sitting beside them "you do not need to answer that".

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I've been out of the loop on this one for awhile. What's the details on this to date?

Last I had heard it was pretty generally accepted that a bunch of them had sex with this girl, but that they apparently had a video where she basically said she was going to have sex with them and consented?

Wasn't the contention essentially whether she was too inebriated to make that decision?

 

[Colt.45Orr]

The wording of it is kinda weird, to be honest.

Not sure why they're definitively saying they will be charged, but haven't been yet. It's a five year old case. It's not like this happened yesterday and you're trying to arrest them immediately and haven't had the time to file formal charges. It's been five years.

Maybe it's a difference between US and Canadian criminal system that I'm not aware of. I dunno.

Read my post above yours

 

[oldunclehue]

Yes, in Canada, you can't be charged until you're in police custody.

Wrong....you can be charged without being arrested, often happens and Police seek a endorsed/unendorsed warrant of arrest.

 

[Just Linda]

The wording of it is kinda weird, to be honest.

Not sure why they're definitively saying they will be charged, but haven't been yet. It's a five year old case. It's not like this happened yesterday and you're trying to arrest them immediately and haven't had the time to file formal charges. It's been five years.

Maybe it's a difference between US and Canadian criminal system that I'm not aware of. I dunno.

They can be charged in lieu but the police don't charge for crimes in Canada, it's the prosecutor. So they get arrested and the court system processes from there.

 

[ERYX]

They don't just charge people on false claims like that. I can't go into detail but sadly a member of my family is currently going through the exact same thing, it took almost 2 years of gathering evidence/statements etc. from family and friends before the police could formally charge the accused.

We have no idea what the actual evidence is. The fact that charges have been laid means nothing, especially in sex assault cases. Since the advent of #MeToo and #BelieveWomen my observation is that police use no discernment or discretion anymore and just lay charges regardless of evidence, if they have a female complainant alleging sexual assault. As a result of this, conviction rates for these sorts of charges have become abysmal. I am a criminal defence attorney and I've seen an absolute explosion in sex assault cases over the past five years or so, and the conviction rate is nonexistent. Almost all of my clients are acquitted because the evidence is simply "he said/she said" in the vast majority of cases with is almost impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt unless the accused is a complete douchebag on the stand or screws himself by giving an incriminating statement to police. Long way of saying that this case could have almost no evidence, just one young lady's say so with no corroborating evidence and a mountain of contradictory evidence. Or it could be a strong case. We don't know. But I don't think we can say "they don't just go charging people on false claims like that". Yes they do, very frequently, in my experience. I've been a criminal lawyer for 20 years having worked both as a Crown Attorney and defence lawyer, but my experience is not definitive. Every other lawyer I've discussed this with has confirmed by observations, though, for what it's worth.

Only time will tell but don't be surprised if these guys are acquitted and it won't be because they hired fancy lawyers (although I assume they'll all hire flashy $500/hour guys from Toronto; yet it would be hilarious if one of them hired me as I sometimes practice in London).

 

[Deadly Dogma]

That’s a Whose Line sketch I would watch

just wait, till the skills competition lol

 

[ERYX]

They can be charged in lieu but the police don't charge for crimes in Canada, it's the prosecutor. So they get arrested and the court system processes from there.

No, in Canada the police lay charges. At least in Ontario where I practice.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yes, in Canada, you can't be charged until you're in police custody.

Yikes. Unless they've got some safeguards there, that reeks of rookie cop who thinks he knows what he's doing making an arrest without actually having enough probable cause to do so.

At least with arrest warrants in the US you're getting a prosecutor and a judge to sign off saying you have probable cause to believe a criminal offense was committed.

But again, maybe there's safeguards in the Canadian system I'm not aware of.