Speculation: Firesale?

Do you want us to sell bigtime and what return do you want?


  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,329
28,330
"The Heatmappers and the On Pace™ers and the Acronymz"

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Sometimes you need to be one with nature. Frolic with the polycorns. Run amongst the brain-trees. In the brain forest. So I go to the city park by the lake!

Walking potion: 10 parts sugar... 90 parts whiskey. If it's cold out... I take a bag of chowder. And in the Summer... I take a bag of banana chowder.
 

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
5,645
2,971
Jersey
You could roll ZAR up in a rug and drop him off in a closet like a scene from Looney Toons and nobody would ever f***ing notice his absence in the lineup. It's nails on a chalkboard annoying to see the analytics gurus constantly pretend like he's some crucial piece, an unheralded master at his craft.
He's this generations Craig Adams
 

Freeptop

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
2,346
1,217
Pittsburgh, PA
Letang CAN be traded to 18 teams, he can be moved, and if we retain salary we could garner a huge return. If you're out of it (which we will be) you absolutely trade him!

As I said, if the Pens are out of it, and they can get a huge return for him, I'd go for it. A "huge return" would certainly be better than a 1st or 2nd and a good prospect, which was my stated minimum for him.
 

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
23,230
11,213
As I said, if the Pens are out of it, and they can get a huge return for him, I'd go for it. A "huge return" would certainly be better than a 1st or 2nd and a good prospect, which was my stated minimum for him.
I agree with your stated minimum as well, I'm sure we could get a real nice return. And rest assured we will be out of it. There's no doubt about it. And it needs to be a 1st rounder for starters.
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,329
28,330
I went to go see the Avalanche vs. the Kraken last night. I can honestly say... not looking forward to the dark years after Crosby / Malkin.

Incredible arena but that is one talent deficient team and just WTF all over the ice.

Yeah I know I keep being told over and over again that it was some kind of strategy or whatever but Francis bungled the f*** out of the ED and didn't take hardly any advantage of what are (particularly compared to past EDs) extremely generous rules.
 

Freeptop

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
2,346
1,217
Pittsburgh, PA
I agree with your stated minimum as well, I'm sure we could get a real nice return. And rest assured we will be out of it. There's no doubt about it. And it needs to be a 1st rounder for starters.

The only reason I'm still 50/50 on it is that so many players are still recovering from bouts with Covid. They aren't that far out of a playoff spot at the moment, so if they fully recover and go on a run, they certainly could end up making the playoffs.
But I think they're just as likely to fall farther behind. Granted, I tend towards optimism, in general, I admit :laugh:

As for "1st rounder for starters", I could go with a 2nd rounder, but only if the prospect coming in is a top prospect, not just a good one. Basically, the prospect would end up needing to be the equivalent of a 1st.
 

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
23,230
11,213
The only reason I'm still 50/50 on it is that so many players are still recovering from bouts with Covid. They aren't that far out of a playoff spot at the moment, so if they fully recover and go on a run, they certainly could end up making the playoffs.
But I think they're just as likely to fall farther behind. Granted, I tend towards optimism, in general, I admit :laugh:

As for "1st rounder for starters", I could go with a 2nd rounder, but only if the prospect coming in is a top prospect, not just a good one. Basically, the prospect would end up needing to be the equivalent of a 1st.
It has to be a 1st rounder AND it has to be a 1st rounder in either the '22 or '23 draft, OUR choice. In addition if the team we trade with gets to the conference finals I'd want a third rounder as well. If that team goes far we could be drafting very late this year between 28-32, so we need to have the option to wait and take that pick in the '23 draft. As well as a prospect (one of their top 3) for example. Especially if we're retaining salary.

So Letang with 35% retention, for our choice of a '22 or 23 1st rounder, a top three prospect and a 3rd rounder say in '23.
 

CascadiaPenguin

Registered User
Sponsor
Jul 5, 2017
4,138
3,794
The Salish Sea
Yeah I know I keep being told over and over again that it was some kind of strategy or whatever but Francis bungled the f*** out of the ED and didn't take hardly any advantage of what are (particularly compared to past EDs) extremely generous rules.
If I am mistaken, then someone please correct me, but I believe Ronnie had effectively the same ED/negotiation rules and perhaps less ancillary catalysts as did GMGM for VGK. Zero question the results are vastly different. Vegas was lucky with a guy like Fleury available, and being rewarded to select him, no less, and the FL Panthers certainly seemed interested in getting the Knights rolling fast.

But the league caught on to this, and weren't so eager to make stupid deals to draft/not draft certain players. And COVID and the stagnant cap made things less opportunistic for new blood like the Kraken. I don't know exactly what Ron should have done, but it is obvious the Kraken are offensively-challenged as currently structured. The risk of snagging an unprotected Tarasenko seems way more reasonable given McCann and Eberle and Tanev are leading the offense, if you can call it offense. Many believed Donskoi could score 50 points in a season, he's yet to pot a goal. Vince Dunn may prove me wrong (wrt Tarasenko) over the long haul, he looks ready to take big strides a PMD and PP QB, who knows. Oh well, probably the wrong forum for my bellyaching anyway.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,196
74,446
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
If I am mistaken, then someone please correct me, but I believe Ronnie had effectively the same ED/negotiation rules and perhaps less ancillary catalysts as did GMGM for VGK. Zero question the results are vastly different. Vegas was lucky with a guy like Fleury available, and being rewarded to select him, no less, and the FL Panthers certainly seemed interested in getting the Knights rolling fast.

But the league caught on to this, and weren't so eager to make stupid deals to draft/not draft certain players. And COVID and the stagnant cap made things less opportunistic for new blood like the Kraken. I don't know exactly what Ron should have done, but it is obvious the Kraken are offensively-challenged as currently structured. The risk of snagging an unprotected Tarasenko seems way more reasonable given McCann and Eberle and Tanev are leading the offense, if you can call it offense. Many believed Donskoi could score 50 points in a season, he's yet to pot a goal. Vince Dunn may prove me wrong (wrt Tarasenko) over the long haul, he looks ready to take big strides a PMD and PP QB, who knows. Oh well, probably the wrong forum for my bellyaching anyway.

I mean, they could've picked Dillon and Ghost and gotten a ton of picks.
 
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Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,240
8,035
If I am mistaken, then someone please correct me, but I believe Ronnie had effectively the same ED/negotiation rules and perhaps less ancillary catalysts as did GMGM for VGK. Zero question the results are vastly different. Vegas was lucky with a guy like Fleury available, and being rewarded to select him, no less, and the FL Panthers certainly seemed interested in getting the Knights rolling fast.

But the league caught on to this, and weren't so eager to make stupid deals to draft/not draft certain players. And COVID and the stagnant cap made things less opportunistic for new blood like the Kraken. I don't know exactly what Ron should have done, but it is obvious the Kraken are offensively-challenged as currently structured. The risk of snagging an unprotected Tarasenko seems way more reasonable given McCann and Eberle and Tanev are leading the offense, if you can call it offense. Many believed Donskoi could score 50 points in a season, he's yet to pot a goal. Vince Dunn may prove me wrong (wrt Tarasenko) over the long haul, he looks ready to take big strides a PMD and PP QB, who knows. Oh well, probably the wrong forum for my bellyaching anyway.
I think you could say that Pittsburgh helped Seattle quite a bit, indirectly/directly giving them two of their top 5 leading scorers.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,196
74,446
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Picks would be nice but those two players don't really move the needle. Philly gave AZ a 2nd and 7th to take on Ghost and the $9MM owed to him over the next two years. Meh.

Ghost would greatly help their powerplay. Dillon would've returned them two 2nds. That's three extra 2nds and a 7th instead of the one 2nd they got for Vanecek.

It is about managing assets.
 
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CascadiaPenguin

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Jul 5, 2017
4,138
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Ghost would greatly help their powerplay. Dillon would've returned them two 2nds.
Hard to say what Ghost's impact would be, greatly may be an exaggeration, he does skate very well. The 9 million cap hit ain't an exaggeration. Dillon brings some grit to a team that already has some grit. Maybe we have a marginally better team with these guys, but nothing earthshaking. Kraken's PP generally gets into the zone cleanly and seems to set up well, given their production is about as poor as the Pens. Then the trouble starts, shooting/crashing the net/puck luck.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,196
74,446
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Hard to say what Ghost's impact would be, greatly may be an exaggeration, he does skate very well. The 9 million cap hit ain't an exaggeration. Dillon brings some grit to a team that already has some grit. Maybe we have a marginally better team with these guys, but nothing earthshaking. Kraken's PP generally gets into the zone cleanly and seems to set up well, given their production is about as poor as the Pens. Then the trouble starts, shooting/crashing the net/puck luck.

Ghost has almost as many points as Gio and Dunn combined this year on a worse team.

The draft was awful and Francis did not make use of any of his cap space aside from saying "we need to keep cap space" while signing a bunch of middling talent that is in their late 20s to longer deals than he could've acquired.

Like why would you pass on a 2nd and Ghost who you could have probably flipped next year for a pick to sign Oleksiak?

Why take Tanev and sign Schwartz when you could’ve taken Zucker and potentially flipped him next year for a pick?
 
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CascadiaPenguin

Registered User
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Jul 5, 2017
4,138
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The Salish Sea
Ghost has almost as many points as Gio and Dunn combined this year on a worse team.

The draft was awful and Francis did not make use of any of his cap space aside from saying "we need to keep cap space" while signing a bunch of middling talent that is in their late 20s to longer deals than he could've acquired.

Like why would you pass on a 2nd and Ghost who you could have probably flipped next year for a pick to sign Oleksiak?
Philly had to search for folks willing to be bribed in the Ghost deal. With one year of 4.5MM hit left a year from now, I can't imagine why Ghost suddenly attracts suitors with assets. Cap remains tight for nearly all teams. Ghost's 13 points now could be an outlier soon to revert, he had a hot start but has 2 points in the last 5 games and still zero goals for the year. Maybe he is a 40pt/year blue liner, maybe he isn't, not easy to predict given his injury history and how long it has been since he produced at that level?
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,196
74,446
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Philly had to search for folks willing to be bribed in the Ghost deal. With one year of 4.5MM hit left a year from now, I can't imagine why Ghost suddenly attracts suitors with assets. Cap remains tight for nearly all teams. Ghost's 13 points now could be an outlier soon to revert, he had a hot start but has 2 points in the last 5 games and still zero goals for the year. Maybe he is a 40pt/year blue liner, maybe he isn't, not easy to predict given his injury history and how long it has been since he produced at that level?

He had 20 points in 40 games last year including 9 goals. The fact Philly is a mental organization means nothing.
 

CascadiaPenguin

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Jul 5, 2017
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He had 20 points in 40 games last year including 9 goals. The fact Philly is a mental organization means nothing.
And he had 12 points/5 g playing 42 in the year before that, and 37 points/9 g playing 78 games in the year before that. Arguing Ghost's production is consistent or predictable is disingenuous.

Circling back to the other fellow you mentioned, Dillon, Kraken's dealing with the Caps was inexplicable. They had to know they were going to grab Grubauer as a FA so why the f*** did they take Vanacek instead of Dillon and a couple of picks? They got a second rounder from Washington in trading Vanacek back, but yeah, this was definitely unforced pissing away value for sure. Kraken has nearly $10MM in 2 goalies, one who has underperformed and one who has been injured the entire season so far.
 

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