Player Discussion Fire Dustin Schwartz

[jukon]

We should also blame Schwartz for Anton Forsberg. He amounted to absolutely nothing as an Oiler and quickly turned into a quality goalie for Ottawa. /sarcasm

 

[StoveTopStauffer]

I simply think people think goalie coaches are 'like' a coach in the traditional sense and I don't think that's the case tbh.

He's mostly a non-factor.

 

[joestevens29]

We should also blame Schwartz for Anton Forsberg. He amounted to absolutely nothing as an Oiler and quickly turned into a quality goalie for Ottawa. /sarcasm

In all fairness Forsberg did complain about Schwartz

 

[joestevens29]

I simply think people think goalie coaches are 'like' a coach in the traditional sense and I don't think that's the case tbh.

He's mostly a non-factor.

I mean when a 39 year old Mike Smith can go to another goalie coach and transform his game to one of his best years in the NHL then clearly a goaltending coach can have an impact.

A goalie coach can also be a very valuable tool to the team as a whole if he is doing his job well. Scouting other goalies and other teams shooters, so that he can give the players and the goalie an idea of what to look for.

 

[Stoneman89]

Leafs just fired their goalie coach. Dubas is hardcore into analytics and I'm sure he'll make a solid hire.

Not holding my breath in Kenny "I trust my gut" Holland.

Because all of Dubas' other goalies did so well in the playoffs.

 

[nabob]

I simply think people think goalie coaches are 'like' a coach in the traditional sense and I don't think that's the case tbh.

He's mostly a non-factor.

Yet so many of the greatest goalies give so much credit to their coaches…

 

[redgrant]

Because all of Dubas' other goalies did so well in the playoffs.

Just typical Mike Smith worshipping ignorance. Hurr Durr Carolina didnt win why would you want their goalies! Toronto lost in 7 games are you crazy boys love smiddy lets roll him again.

I mean when a 39 year old Mike Smith can go to another goalie coach and transform his game to one of his best years in the NHL then clearly a goaltending coach can have an impact.

A goalie coach can also be a very valuable tool to the team as a whole if he is doing his job well. Scouting other goalies and other teams shooters, so that he can give the players and the goalie an idea of what to look for.

Vancouver is paying their goalie coach 1.5 million hes such an asset. Agree if you can turn a goalie into a starter well worth the investment. This is what I wish this embarassing franchise would learn. Invest in specialty coaches and analytics.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Schwartz was a local guy. That raises alarms for me given the Oilers history.

He hasn't gotten a lot out of the goalies during his term here, but our defence and goalies sort of sucked already.

I would prefer someone with a history of success for sure. I think it's reasonable to question if Schwartz is part of the problem.

I don't buy that good goalie coaches don't make a difference. Burke, Clarke, there are a few that seem to be worth a lot of money and Katz can afford these people.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

We hire every possible Oilers Alumni from 30 years ago except the only one who could actually help the hockey club.

Bill Ranford is the kings goalie coach since 2006 and watching Quick almost beat us in the first round is a testament to his work. But hey I'm sure Paul Coffey will help us.... I hope.

 

[Mr Kot]

Could be worse, we could still be employing butt burger.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

If other teams are interested in him then perhaps he isn't a fraud? Can we just use him instead of Schwartz?

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

Way past the time to move on from Schwartz.

 

[McDrai]

Way past the time to move on from Schwartz.

I wonder who he manages to ruin next

 

[Beerfish]

Has even one goalie gotten a lot better after arriving here? Almost every single one gets worse after looking not bad when they arrive.

GMs and coaches do not seem to have a clue about the voodoo of goalie coaches so they do not make changes. But the results to me are there in black and white.

 

[DingerMcSlapshot]

I wonder who he manages to ruin next

Skinner

 

[Oil Gauge]

I mean when a 39 year old Mike Smith can go to another goalie coach and transform his game to one of his best years in the NHL then clearly a goaltending coach can have an impact.

A goalie coach can also be a very valuable tool to the team as a whole if he is doing his job well. Scouting other goalies and other teams shooters, so that he can give the players and the goalie an idea of what to look for.

So many things can go into a goalie having a career year. Everything from your confidence to your defense to your health. Any many many goalies use local goalie coaches for their summer training.

And yes goalie coaches can do a lot for the rest of the team, just look at how the oilers picked apart Markstom this year in the playoffs. He had a career year, 3rd in GAA 4th in sv% 1st in shutouts, he had a .943 sv % in the first round of the playoffs and the Oilers picked him apart so bad that he never posted a sv% over .882.

Looking over Schwartz's time with the club he's only been given 1 good goalie. 1 goalie where you could say you are looking for him to take the next step and become a legit starter. That was Talbot. he had a great first 2 years setting a franchise record for wins. Then the games caught up to him and he was obviously having trouble moving around the crease. His numbers dropped and he was moved out. The next 2 seasons he played considerably fewer games due to covid and it obviously did him a lot of good as he's back to posting good numbers again.

A goalie coach can only do so much with what they are given, and that includes the defense that the goalie has to play behind. Management has not put Schwartz in a good situation since they hired him.

 

[TheNumber4]

I like Skinner. I was wondering why his development was going so smoothly, maybe Schwartz does do good work after all I wondered. Now i find out it was all Rodrigue and he’ll be courted by smarter organizations and probably be gone and we are STILL stuck with Schwartz.

Good. Great. Grand.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

A goalie coach can only do so much with what they are given, and that includes the defense that the goalie has to play behind. Management has not put Schwartz in a good situation since they hired him.

For what it's worth, I remember being really excited when Schwartz was first hired due to the success he had with the Oil Kings. Brossoit and Jarry both came up huge during the Oil Kings' 2012 and 2013 WHL Championships, and Jarry especially shone in the 2014 Memorial Cup Run as I recall.

Looking back, perhaps Schwartz is the goalie coach version of Tom Renney...dominant at the junior level, out-coached and out-smarted at the pro level.

But one thing's for sure: Schwartz is lightyears ahead of Frederic Chabot, our goalie coach in the Decade of Darkness.

I can still remember when the Oilers allowed fans to sit behind the glass in training camp (this was either 2010 or 2011), and I watched Chabot instruct the goalie prospects how to drop their stick and clench the bottom of the short-side goalpost with both hands to seal off loose pucks.

I'm no coaching expert...but even I could tell that method seemed awfully sketch.

 

[Oil Gauge]

For what it's worth, I remember being really excited when Schwartz was first hired due to the success he had with the Oil Kings. Brossoit and Jarry both came up huge during the Oil Kings' 2012 and 2013 WHL Championships, and Jarry especially shone in the 2014 Memorial Cup Run as I recall.

Looking back, perhaps Schwartz is the goalie coach version of Tom Renney...dominant at the junior level, out-coached and out-smarted at the pro level.

But one thing's for sure: Schwartz is lightyears ahead of Frederic Chabot, our goalie coach in the Decade of Darkness.

I can still remember when the Oilers allowed fans to sit behind the glass in training camp (this was either 2010 or 2011), and I watched Chabot instruct the goalie prospects how to drop their stick and clench the bottom of the short-side goalpost with both hands to seal off loose pucks.

I'm no coaching expert...but even I could tell that method seemed awfully sketch.

I spend a lot of time in rinks and I've seen many hours of coaching by both Chabot and Schwartz. Chabot's demeanor always seemed like he had the attitude that these are NHL goalies we don't need to work on basics, He always just went through the drills, never making adjustments or recommendations. Every time I see Schwartz work with Pro goalies he's always working on the details, he's always engaged 110%.

 

[PostBradMalone]

The clearest indictment of Schwartz should be the way most goalies who work with him at the NHL level- Oilers or not- very clearly get worse. Exhibit A is Carter Hart. See this article from August 2021:

Hart has a few different trainers and coaches that can help him out both on and off the ice.

“Yeah, this offseason so far has been great,” he said. “Got a lot of ice in and off the ice as well. Schwartzy’s been great. My trainer back home here, Phil Daly, he’s been awesome. I’m feeling really good right now.”

Hart's 2021-22:

 

[Tarus]

The clearest indictment of Schwartz should be the way most goalies who work with him at the NHL level- Oilers or not- very clearly get worse. Exhibit A is Carter Hart. See this article from August 2021:



Hart's 2021-22:

View attachment 564051

Team brings in Ristolainen, has injuries to key defensive players, has one of the worst shots against rates in the NHL, collapses defensively to the point the coach gets fired mid season, and somehow the tail off in the performance of the goaltender is a result of the offseason coach he sees over the summer? Did Schwartz coach Martin Jones too? Because his stats are just a bit worse despite playing nearly the same amount as Hart.

Also, if Schwartz has such an impact on his performance, you need to give him credit for his good years too, because he's been Hart's goaltending coach since he was 14/15 years old.

 

[Oil Gauge]

The clearest indictment of Schwartz should be the way most goalies who work with him at the NHL level- Oilers or not- very clearly get worse. Exhibit A is Carter Hart. See this article from August 2021:



Hart's 2021-22:

View attachment 564051

So Hart went into the season feeling good, he had just spent the offseason with Schwartz. He had a 905sv% which while isn't stellar, it isn't terrible though.

Lets look at his season. So in the first 3 months of the year where Schwartz's teachings would have had the biggest impact on him he had the following
Oct .915
Nov .924
Dec .911
All respectable numbers, It wasn't until January until he had been back with his Goalie coach in Philly for 3-4 months that his numbers dropped off. He had a .918sv% in 19 starts going into the new year. That's a top 10 sv% among starters in the league, and his team was 7-8-4 in those 19 games, so its doubtful that he was riding the success of his team.

I don't see how you can look at those numbers and blame Schwartz for Harts performance. Do you expect him to make a trip out to Philly in Mid January to work with him as his game fell off?

 

[VainGretzky]

This is one coaching position that is underpaid , if Katz can throw 5 million at Holland he surely can throw extra dollars and lure a great goaltending coach here

 

[Oil Gauge]

This is one coaching position that is underpaid , if Katz can throw 5 million at Holland he surely can throw extra dollars and lure a great goaltending coach here

How much does Schwartz make?

 

[TheNumber4]

This is a results oriented business. And Schwartz doesn’t have them. He might have a good resume, and he can continue to run all his goalie coaching schools or whatever he does in the side.

But as an NHL goalie coach that’s supposed to make NHL goalies better, he sucks.