Fire Deboer

[Lebanezer]

How much ice time did DeBoer have against Kopitar?

Honestly, what is the point of this comment?

 

[OffSydes]

Honestly, what is the point of this comment?

Bringing energy to the board.

 

[Barrie22]

How much ice time did DeBoer have against Kopitar?

So its the teams fault for haley being on the ice against kopitar? Got it. I never knew players decided who and what lines go out on the ice when.

Might actually answer why a useless plug like haley plays 10 minutes a game and goes out against top lines.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

How much ice time did DeBoer have against Kopitar?

He had the exact same amount of ice time as a good coach would give to a plug like Micheal Haley.

 

[OrrNumber4]

The organization preaches accountability but they don’t really enforce it.

You are correct that it starts at the top with coaching staff consistently underperforming with strong rosters and getting a pass - Ron Wilson got 6 full seasons, McLellan got 7, and DeBoer is in his 4th and has a contract extension that starts next year. None of these coaches won a Stanley Cup and only DeBoer made the Stanley Cup Finals. There are two kinds of teams who give their coaches that kind of tenure and job security with those kinds of results and one of those are budget teams for whom these kinds of results are considered a success. The other are losers.

Then you look further down the lineup and you continue to see the lack of accountability. Top players like Jones, Couture, and Vlasic were all coming off mediocre, underwhelming performances when they got extended a year before they needed to be. An organization which places an emphasis on accountability would

It seems like a large chunk of the organizational accountability is disproportionately placed on depth players like Lukas Radil, Antti Suomela, Jannik Hansen, and Tim Heed. Radil struggled to produce in a 4th line role over a small sample size and was promptly relegated to the shuttle between the minors and the press box despite still posting excellent defensive results. Suomela struggled to produce in a 4th line role over a small sample size and was promptly relegated to the AHL and publicly called out by his coach for not being hard to play against. Jannik Hansen didn’t score a goal for like 45 games but still put up a good number of assists and solid defensive results. Tim Heed got beat to the outside by Jake Virtanen and was healthy scratched for the remainder of the season outside of two injury plagued games where he was benched. Even Donskoi struggled to score a goal despite posting decent defensive results and playmaking and he was healthy scratched.

The problem with the accountability placed among depth players is it isn’t held consistent from player to player. Dylan DeMelo was never healthy scratched after a certain point despite making more egregious errors than Heed ever did. Melker Karlsson went over 50 games without a goal between last year and this year and was never healthy scratched. Barclay Goodrow hasn’t been scratched once this season and he made a far more egregious error against STL than Radil or Donskoi ever have in teal - he also doesn’t score as much as these guys.

The most blatant example of all of not holding people accountable is DeBoer playing Micheal Haley after that game against Vegas. Haley already should never be in the lineup based on merit and is only ever in because DeBoer and the boys like him. That right there is blatant nepotism and an organization which enforces nepotism to that degree is pretty much the opposite of an organization that prides themselves on accountability. But then you go a step further and look at the Vegas game and how how Haley got absolutely played by Ryan Reaves and cost the team the game against Vegas with multiple awful penalties. That kind of detrimental performance is worse than anything that Heed, Hansen, Suomela, Radil, or Donskoi have ever had nightmares of doing, and yet Haley wasn’t even healthy scratched once.

Speaking of nepotism, the head of the scouting department is the GM’s son. Which further enforces my idea that this really isn’t an organization that enforces accountability at all.

The Sharks organization placing a heavy emphasis on accountability is just corporate bull****. They don’t.

Wilson only got four seasons (2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008).

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Wilson only got four season (2004, 2006, 2007, and 2008).

Oops. I was counting the majority of the 2002-2003 season but forgot about the lockout.

 

[Dicdonya]

The organization preaches accountability but they don’t really enforce it.

You are correct that it starts at the top with coaching staff consistently underperforming with strong rosters and getting a pass - Ron Wilson got 6 full seasons, McLellan got 7, and DeBoer is in his 4th and has a contract extension that starts next year. None of these coaches won a Stanley Cup and only DeBoer made the Stanley Cup Finals. There are two kinds of teams who give their coaches that kind of tenure and job security with those kinds of results and one of those are budget teams for whom these kinds of results are considered a success. The other are losers.

Then you look further down the lineup and you continue to see the lack of accountability. Top players like Jones, Couture, and Vlasic were all coming off mediocre, underwhelming performances when they got extended a year before they needed to be. An organization which places an emphasis on accountability would

It seems like a large chunk of the organizational accountability is disproportionately placed on depth players like Lukas Radil, Antti Suomela, Jannik Hansen, and Tim Heed. Radil struggled to produce in a 4th line role over a small sample size and was promptly relegated to the shuttle between the minors and the press box despite still posting excellent defensive results. Suomela struggled to produce in a 4th line role over a small sample size and was promptly relegated to the AHL and publicly called out by his coach for not being hard to play against. Jannik Hansen didn’t score a goal for like 45 games but still put up a good number of assists and solid defensive results. Tim Heed got beat to the outside by Jake Virtanen and was healthy scratched for the remainder of the season outside of two injury plagued games where he was benched. Even Donskoi struggled to score a goal despite posting decent defensive results and playmaking and he was healthy scratched.

The problem with the accountability placed among depth players is it isn’t held consistent from player to player. Dylan DeMelo was never healthy scratched after a certain point despite making more egregious errors than Heed ever did. Melker Karlsson went over 50 games without a goal between last year and this year and was never healthy scratched. Barclay Goodrow hasn’t been scratched once this season and he made a far more egregious error against STL than Radil or Donskoi ever have in teal - he also doesn’t score as much as these guys.

The most blatant example of all of not holding people accountable is DeBoer playing Micheal Haley after that game against Vegas. Haley already should never be in the lineup based on merit and is only ever in because DeBoer and the boys like him. That right there is blatant nepotism and an organization which enforces nepotism to that degree is pretty much the opposite of an organization that prides themselves on accountability. But then you go a step further and look at the Vegas game and how how Haley got absolutely played by Ryan Reaves and cost the team the game against Vegas with multiple awful penalties. That kind of detrimental performance is worse than anything that Heed, Hansen, Suomela, Radil, or Donskoi have ever had nightmares of doing, and yet Haley wasn’t even healthy scratched once.

Speaking of nepotism, the head of the scouting department is the GM’s son. Which further enforces my idea that this really isn’t an organization that enforces accountability at all.

The Sharks organization placing a heavy emphasis on accountability is just corporate bull****. They don’t.

Absolutely wonderfully put, I agree 99% with everything you said.

The only thing that I’m not fully on board with is lumping Wilson’s son into this.

Yeah I fully understand it appears to be textbook nepotism, however so far he seems fully competent at his job, and has his own ideas and drafting strategies. IMO it’s just as stupid to hire an incompetent relative to a position just because he is your relative, as it would be to not hire a competent relative to a position simply to avoid the perception of nepotism. So for now, I think it’s a little unfair to dismiss his son as nothing more than a nepotistic hire. It very well could be, but until he actually displays poor judgement or results, and does not get removed for them, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[OrrNumber4]

What are the chances of being both his son AND the most qualified for the position?

 

[OrrNumber4]

Oops. I was counting the majority of the 2002-2003 season but forgot about the lockout.

In hindsight, Wilson was a very under appreciated coach. In 2004 he gets a CF appearance from stone. After the 2007 season he makes the adjustments necessary, making the team far better defensively and getting JT to improve defensively. A lot of players don't buy I to the system, and it's Mclellan who reaps some the benefits.

 

[stator]

Oops. I was counting the majority of the 2002-2003 season but forgot about the lockout.

Yeah, but you are right about PDB as that's the exact rub the Devils fans had on PDB when he was over there.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Absolutely wonderfully put, I agree 99% with everything you said.

The only thing that I’m not fully on board with is lumping Wilson’s son into this.

Yeah I fully understand it appears to be textbook nepotism, however so far he seems fully competent at his job, and has his own ideas and drafting strategies. IMO it’s just as stupid to hire an incompetent relative to a position just because he is your relative, as it would be to not hire a competent relative to a position simply to avoid the perception of nepotism. So for now, I think it’s a little unfair to dismiss his son as nothing more than a nepotistic hire. It very well could be, but until he actually displays poor judgement or results, and does not get removed for them, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

DWJR has thoroughly impressed me so far with what we’ve seen of him, but he can be the Gretzky of GMs and it doesn’t really change my point. Nepotism is the antithesis of accountability and we’ve already seen with Haley that the organization will base their decisions on it before they base their decisions on things like merit.

 

[Lebanezer]

DWJR has thoroughly impressed me so far with what we’ve seen of him, but he can be the Gretzky of GMs and it doesn’t really change my point. Nepotism is the antithesis of accountability and we’ve already seen with Haley that the organization will base their decisions on it before they base their decisions on things like merit.

I don’t think you need to talk about DWJr or nepotism. I don’t think either belong in the same conversation as the point you’re making about accountability. Haley, Melker, DeMelo etc. are an example of favoritism and a relative and evaluative double standard. The pratfalls of subjectivity by Deboer, and you are correct in that it shows a lack of accountability. Deboer lacks the objectivity to justly hold all players accountable and to the same relative standard.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I don’t think you need to talk about DWJr or nepotism. I don’t think either belong in the same conversation as the point you’re making about accountability. Haley, Melker, DeMelo etc. are an example of favoritism and a relative and evaluative double standard. The pratfalls of subjectivity by Deboer, and you are correct in that it shows a lack of accountability. Deboer lacks the objectivity to justly hold all players accountable and to the same relative standard.

Haley is a good example of bias and a coach not changing his way of thinking more than nepotism.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Haley is a good example of bias and a coach not changing his way of thinking more than nepotism.

Also certain traditions in hockey and sports in general, especially those that espouse will over skill (which is important, but you need to still be able to play hockey).

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Haley is a good example of bias and a coach not changing his way of thinking more than nepotism.

I think we can call it nepotism when DeBoer frequently talks about how much he likes Haley and frequently cites the opinions of Haley’s teammates as the reason he frequently plays.

I don’t think you need to talk about DWJr or nepotism. I don’t think either belong in the same conversation as the point you’re making about accountability. Haley, Melker, DeMelo etc. are an example of favoritism and a relative and evaluative double standard. The pratfalls of subjectivity by Deboer, and you are correct in that it shows a lack of accountability. Deboer lacks the objectivity to justly hold all players accountable and to the same relative standard.

I think it’s just another example of how this organization doesn’t really enforce accountability like they preach it. It’s really hard to make accountability one of the focal values of an organization that will blatantly employ nepotism like that.

 

[Mattb124]

Honestly, what is the point of this comment?

Contesting the notion that a coach bears more blame in a loss than the players, esp. on the road. The Sharks didn't get outshot 35/25 because of DeBoer or Haley. It was a generally poor effort by the team overall.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Contesting the notion that a coach bears more blame in a loss than the players, esp. on the road. The Sharks didn't get outshot 35/25 because of DeBoer or Haley. It was a generally poor effort by the team overall.

Where exactly did that notion come up? Where the f*** did I say that the skaters and Joneswere not very poor?

Why do the DeBoer defenders constantly feel the need to put words in somebody else’s mouth to defend him?

 

[DG93]

Contesting the notion that a coach bears more blame in a loss than the players, esp. on the road. The Sharks didn't get outshot 35/25 because of DeBoer or Haley. It was a generally poor effort by the team overall.

To me, it sounds more like bias towards Haley and PDB and an attempt to deflect the conversation elsewhere.

 

[stator]

Contesting the notion that a coach bears more blame in a loss than the players, esp. on the road. The Sharks didn't get outshot 35/25 because of DeBoer or Haley. It was a generally poor effort by the team overall.

True, but one cannot fire the whole team. When these situations consistently occur, it's common they fire the coach.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Man, this guy is something else.

 

[Lebanezer]

Man, this guy is something else.

If Kurz worked for the Sharks I would say he fits in perfectly to your no accountability post, but he doesn't, so, I guess he just wanted to embarrass himself with a lack of imagination and appeal to authority.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

If Kurz worked for the Sharks I would say he fits in perfectly to your no accountability post, but he doesn't, so, I guess he just wanted to embarrass himself with a lack of imagination and appeal to authority.

My favorite kind of appeal to authority is an appeal to a vague authority that isn’t even cited.

 

[Lebanezer]

My favorite kind of appeal to authority is an appeal to a vague authority that isn’t even cited.

It works perfectly because then you can’t be contradicted.

 

[The Nemesis]

Kurz acts like a knob to people and then wonders why he doesn't get any respect. In other news, water declared wet, Ducks still suck.

We'll have more at 11

 

[Lebanezer]

Kurz acts like a knob to people and then wonders why he doesn't get any respect. In other news, water declared wet, Ducks still suck.

We'll have more at 11

I’ll be tuning in at 11.