Rumor: Far Too Negative...

[knorthern knight]

Another boost for putting Scheifele at #2 centre. Tonight's faceoff summary http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20132014/FC010088.HTM Jokinen was 8/20 = 40%; Scheifele was 7/13 = 54%

 

[CorgisPer60]

Just a few thoughts from my POV on this thread:

I too get very frustrated

I understand and agree with a lot of what you say. You can't have healthy debate without conflicting opinions and viewpoints. My problem stems from the contrarians who only see the negative and continually regurgitate the same lines of criticism. There was one recently who thinks that we still have a roster of 3rd and 4th liners with no top 2 defensemen, which has already been proven as false. It gets old, boring, and stale really fast.

A moderator requires a great degree of impartiality, and I agree to an extent with the idea of mods not modding their team's board. It can lead to a really messy situation, so I hope that the site admins have a good vetting process in place to keep those instances down. I also understand that no one wants to visit another team's forum on a daily basis.

 

[Snot Rocket]

I rarely start threads here but felt a need to vent. I've sensed a bit of an overwhelmingly negative vibe on this board of late that in reality stems from just a minor subset of Jets fans. This negativity doesn't really come from most of the hardcore hockey fans and season ticket holders that I personally interact with on a daily basis however, but rather it seems more confined to places like HF and twitter, online social media where some fans have written their own scripts for how the season will unfold - prior to game one.

I'm an optimist, sue me. Here we go...

"Noel is a terrible coach and should be fired immediately".
Noel has actually done quite well the past two seasons with weak rosters. He has been given the chance to work with an improved squad this year and that has yet to play itself out.

"Scheifele needs to start as the #2 center beside Kane. Noel is going to ruin that kid."
The fastest way to ruin the kid would be to place him into a high pressure slot right off the bat and watch him fail. It seems logical that they'd start him at #3 and then let him try to supplant the current #2 center with strong play. He needs to work his way up in the order and take the job versus have it given to him. That is the path to his success. In reality he doesn't have to be ready to play in the #2 spot until next season when Jokinen is gone.

"The team is terrible and will finish last."
They've actually upgraded their forwards quite nicely. Last season it was just LLW & Kane; this season they can theoretically ice three balanced forward lines that will push the offense. The lone glaring question mark is in goal now IMO, but I feel that Pavelec's past numbers were in part subject to... were a reflection of quite poor defensive team play in front of him. Hopefully they'll tighten up a bit in their own zone this season.

"Hainsey leaving was a huge loss."
Hainsey was in reality actually just a bottom-pair guy that performed admirably when called upon last season in a higher role due injuries. At the end of the day though he was a 5/6 guy that will likely be replaced on the roster by Trouba - a potential franchise d-man down the road. That isn't a loss, FYI.

This thread will probably die quickly due that edgy negativity seems to be the order of the day. That said, that are as many reasons to be positive about the coming year as there are negative talking points (the ones that are seemingly constantly belabored here). The franchise is gaining depth on the NHL roster and has begun building depth at the AHL level with homegrown players as the new management's draft picks have begun to enter the system. They may or may not make the playoffs this season, but they are taking the sort of incremental steps required to become a perennial threat down the road. Step away from the ledge, the future looks fairly bright.

I can accept that the chips fall where they may, and at worst case a last growing season for a team putting itself together.
The end product should be exciting, I don't expect to win, but want them to win and that is perhaps the best part.
The journey in hindsight is usually more rewarding when you look back at it then the final result...that is just the cherry on top.

Go Jets Go!

 

[HellasLEAF]

could Bogosian stay healthy for 5 minutes??

what's the latest here gents..

 

[hoowaa]

Negative ?

Aside from some individuals showing they are ready for the NHL which is being demonstrated against other team's prospects there is not much to be positive about from an overall TEAM perspective.

Consensus outside of HFpositiveposters has the Jets outside of the playoffs. Preseason and past season results support this forecast easily.

There is no evidence that the combination of team and systems employed by the coach are adequate to make the playoffs. I suggest further seasoning is required to be "positive" on this year's playoff chances.

Noel's coaching team is very much on probation by the organization. Not far of a leap for impatient fans to call for his head now - human nature being what it is.

If they prove the naysayers wrong by turning it around that would be excellent.

Pragmatic. Realistic. Practical.

 

[KingBogo]

In terms of negativity the things that get under my skin are "the sky is falling" comments after you lose a preseason game by a goal without all of your top line and 2 out of your top 3 d-man, playing a goalie whose current top end is the back up in the minors. Sure the other time was playing a similar type lineup, but winning the game is a far second to evaluating talent.

The other one is the"oh my god that established vet has regressed horribly" comments because they aren't looking like they did in mid season. The vast majority will be just fine, they know this time is for the prospects and bubble players to show their stuff. They just want to shake off some rust, get some game conditioning and make it to the real games relatively healthy.

******* on the coach comments also makes absolutely no sense as he is juggling line combos and inserting prospects into spots that he knows they are not ready for to see how they respond.

Okay there is my negativity about negativity

 

[cbcwpg]

" Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? "

Oddball - "Kelly's Heroes"

 

[EpicGingy]

Negative ?

Aside from some individuals showing they are ready for the NHL which is being demonstrated against other team's prospects there is not much to be positive about from an overall TEAM perspective.

Consensus outside of HFpositiveposters has the Jets outside of the playoffs. Preseason and past season results support this forecast easily.

There is no evidence that the combination of team and systems employed by the coach are adequate to make the playoffs. I suggest further seasoning is required to be "positive" on this year's playoff chances.

Noel's coaching team is very much on probation by the organization. Not far of a leap for impatient fans to call for his head now - human nature being what it is.

If they prove the naysayers wrong by turning it around that would be excellent.

Pragmatic. Realistic. Practical.

Let me guess, these so called experts are the same ones who predicted we would finish in 14th last year? Everybody always picks us to miss, people also predicted the Islanders to miss last year and the Jackets to be just as horrible as always. Predictions don't mean anything.

As for the pre-season, also irrelevent. Until we see our NHL roster playing I'll reserve judgement.

We've gotten some better players and barely missed last year. It could go either way.

 

[meedle]

Negative ?

Aside from some individuals showing they are ready for the NHL which is being demonstrated against other team's prospects there is not much to be positive about from an overall TEAM perspective.

Consensus outside of HFpositiveposters has the Jets outside of the playoffs. Preseason and past season results support this forecast easily.

There is no evidence that the combination of team and systems employed by the coach are adequate to make the playoffs. I suggest further seasoning is required to be "positive" on this year's playoff chances.

Noel's coaching team is very much on probation by the organization. Not far of a leap for impatient fans to call for his head now - human nature being what it is.

If they prove the naysayers wrong by turning it around that would be excellent.

Pragmatic. Realistic. Practical.

I agree with you. I consider myself realistic. I feel the upside is that Chevy has drafted well and that will do this team good down the line. But for now with the current roster I don't think this year we will reach the playoffs. The only positive thing I can see is that there will be 1 year less on Buffs and Pavs contracts, Joker will be gone after this year, Scheifele and Trouba will have a year under their belt and Lowry will also have a year of pro hockey under his belt. Also hopefully before the year is out we will have a new coach in place. Someone that can hopefully implement a defensive system.

 

[ajmidd12]

Another boost for putting Scheifele at #2 centre. Tonight's faceoff summary http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20132014/FC010088.HTM Jokinen was 8/20 = 40%; Scheifele was 7/13 = 54%

How is that a boost?

You're entitled to your opinion but other than the goal he scored Scheifele kept making mistake after mistake in my opinion. He needs to lose the OHL mentality that he can float back on the plays and play a two-way fast paced game, he needs to get to the dirty spots (center mans job) and create the plays not just be the one who wants to score all the time. But he has been progressing which is nice to see.

I noticed he would take the puck and look to immediately get rid of it 9/10 times last night. Or would stop short of the check when someone was coming at him.

For what its worth I agree entirely with Gumps post. Scheif should start at 3C and work his way up. Jokinen has looked much better in these preseason games than he did last year thus far, he has worked hard in the off season and it's showing.

Noel needs to keep the 4 lines together and let them gel already, enough swapping around it isn't working. Hell, I've been saying it for weeks already, cut the team down and utilize the pre-season games as practices. This team needs to shake out the cobwebs.

Forwards:
Ladd-Little-Wheeler
Kane-Jokinen-Setogutchi
Tangradi-Scheifele-Frolik
Halischuk-Slater-Peluso

(Scratch Thorburn, Wright, send Cormier down).

Defense:
Byfuglien-Enstrom
Bogosian-Clitsome
Trouba-Stuart

(Scratch Postma, send Redmond and Pardy down).

Goal:
Pavelec
Montoya

Totals
14 forwards
7 defense
2 goalies

At this point Noel doesn't have my vote of confidence, his inability to get the best out of his players last year really bugged me. Hopefully he can prove me wrong this season, if not, we get a new coach. I think we have a good shot at the playoffs though, the additions of Frolik, Setogutchi, and Trouba will really help.

 

[Positive]

But the guys who have to whip their same dead horses every post every thread every hour of every day. Go outside and look at a beautiful tree and then post nice when you come back. The dark cloud whoa is me it's always raining on me is so old and it won't get new anytime soon.

I don't know what you're talking about. Here's my expert take on things:

Jokinen Jokinen Jokinen, Pavelec back-to-back. Jokinen Pavelec. Back-to-back Pavelec, Jokinen Jokinen. Jokinen, and Pavelec back-to-back. Pavelec is Pavelec, Jokinen while Pavelecing, and third-lines, and Pavelec back-to-back. Jokinen, Scheifele, Burmi. Pavelec back-to-back. Fire Noel. BTW I don't actually watch many games, I live in Ontario and am really a Leafs/Marlies fan.

 

[Samcanadian]

I think Winnipeg fans take a generally negative tone about nearly all of their teams, which is why it comes as no surprise when people slag Brian Munz' enthusiasm while calling the games but then praise Rick Ralph's thinly veiled condescending negativity in the post-game show.

 

[SensibleGuy]

For what its worth I agree entirely with Gumps post. Scheif should start at 3C and work his way up. Jokinen has looked much better in these preseason games than he did last year thus far, he has worked hard in the off season and it's showing.

really? I mean I'm one of the guys that predicted Joki would have a nice bounce back season, but I haven't seen anything in the pre season that has made me feel good about my prediction. I think he's looked about the same as last year - possibly slightly quicker. I think Scheif has looked much better. I also didn't think Scheif was that bad last night. I saw him busting his but to get back on D several times - in fact he beat both our D men back on a couple occasions.

 

[Samcanadian]

Jokinen can't help but improve this year. His history and track record shows that he will. Not sure why all Jets fans want to believe the opposite.

 

[Analyst365]

We need to improve in C, L, and RW positions. And G. And special teams. Maybe coaching. Other than that I think we have plenty to be positive about.

 

[Thesaurus]

Jokinen can't help but improve this year. His history and track record shows that he will. Not sure why all Jets fans want to believe the opposite.

Only reacting to what we've personally seen, terrible last year and looks even worse this year. Age eventually catches up to you, some quicker than others.

 

[SensibleGuy]

Jokinen can't help but improve this year. His history and track record shows that he will. Not sure why all Jets fans want to believe the opposite.

I don't want to believe the opposite. I want him to (and like I said, expected him to) have a great season. I just haven't seen anything in the preseason that leads me to believe he's going to...

 

[Gnova]

I agree with you. I consider myself realistic. I feel the upside is that Chevy has drafted well and that will do this team good down the line. But for now with the current roster I don't think this year we will reach the playoffs. The only positive thing I can see is that there will be 1 year less on Buffs and Pavs contracts, Joker will be gone after this year, Scheifele and Trouba will have a year under their belt and Lowry will also have a year of pro hockey under his belt. Also hopefully before the year is out we will have a new coach in place. Someone that can hopefully implement a defensive system.

The first half of your post explains why you don't think the Jets have the roster to make the playoffs but then go on to say you hope that a coach who hasn't had a talented roster to work with should be let go.
The Jets have done pretty well in the first two years with a very thin talent pool yet Noel doesn't seem to get any recognition for this fact.
If there is a coaching change the last thing I want to see is a coach that introduces a dull defensive system. I watch hockey to be entertained and watching a Tippett team is the furthest extreme from entertained that I can imagine.
Good or bad, one thing we can say is that the Jets play an exciting style of hockey.

 

[Grind]

The negativity of the HFboards Jets statisticians on Pavelec is ridiculous.

Many people on these boards seem to despise Pavelec but fans around town love him.

poor statistics generally bother statisticians.

Kind of like how bad food bothers food critics.

and losing hockey teams bothers hockey fans.

I don't know why this is a bad thing or surprising.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

The negativity of the HFboards Jets statisticians on Pavelec is ridiculous.

Many people on these boards seem to despise Pavelec but fans around town love him.

Don't get the false dichotomy here.

I love Pavelec. I clap when they announce his name in the starting lineup, I cheer when he makes an amazing save, I heap praise on him when he has a great game. I also recognize that he's among the bottom 8-10 starters in the league.

The two ideas (cheering for Pavs while recognizing he hasn't established himself as a good starter) aren't that hard to reconcile.

 

[FlameChampion]

Well part of the problem I think is that so many people get so defensive when it comes to their team or things in general. Which is usually the case when it comes to people on the internet. Also I think Canadians (which make up most of this board or at least the Winnipeg section) in general are pretty cut throat when it comes to things. I mean everyone loves hockey in this country but they are so quick to throw a player under the bus whenever they have a bad game or something. It also applies to more things than just hockey. You look at a band like Nickleback or Justin Bieber. No one is harder on Nickleback than Canadians probably. I'm not saying I personally like Nickleback but its bit strange that people here are so hard on them and really never praise their successes. I wonder if GSP lost a couple fights in a row, if people here would think hes just some scrub. I think Canada for whatever reason is just really hard on some athletes/entainers/teams.

As far as Winnipeg goes. I live in Alberta and dont get to watch a ton of Winnipeg games so I dont really know the team that well. I think Winnipeg is definitely on the rise. You guys have picked up some good prospects. From a outsider's point of view, it seems that Cheveldayoff is a bit too hesitant to really make any type of moves. He probably doesnt give Noel that much to work with. He rarely goes after any UFA's, he doesnt make any significant trades, etc. People in strong hockey markets, like to see bold moves and he really doesnt make any bold moves. But you know thats not necessarily a bad thing either, alot of the "bad" moves come from signing overpriced UFA's who really arent worth it. I still think your roster is improved from last year, and really you didnt give up much for it, and you havent sacrificed the future. Winnipeg on paper has a really strong defense, some solid wingers. Perhaps you have some questions marks at center and possibly goalie, but most teams have some question marks.

Will they make the playoffs this year? who knows. If you make a list of 8 teams who you think will make it, and you dont put x team on it, people get offended on here. Well guess what? only 8 teams can make it and there is a lot of parity in the league. If you make a list of teams in the Western Conference, there are like 4 which should be locks, 2 teams that should make it, and 1-2 spots completely up for grabs. The teams from 5-13 are all really close. It could really go any way. Injuries make up a big part of it. Maybe Winnipeg will be injury free for most of 2013 where as Minnesota will maybe loose Suter and Parise to injury.

I think it will be an interesting year with all the new divisions. I think the East will be a rollercoaster in particular. Who knows what will happen though. Sit back and enjoy the ride, puck drops in 4 days !

 

[cbcwpg]

Jokinen can't help but improve this year. His history and track record shows that he will. Not sure why all Jets fans want to believe the opposite.

Show me the opposite and I'll stop believing it.

Every professional athlete at a different time gets to a point where they just can't play like they use to. Nothing to be ashamed about.... it's just father time catching up to you. Well, maybe Jokinen has been caught by father time.

 

[wpgsilver]

Wait people don't like Nickleback?

Never made it as a wise man, couldn't cut it as a poor man stealing. Tired of living like a blind man stealing...

Classic rock, no?

 

[peg]

Show me the opposite and I'll stop believing it.

Every professional athlete at a different time gets to a point where they just can't play like they use to. Nothing to be ashamed about.... it's just father time catching up to you. Well, maybe Jokinen has been caught by father time.

Over the last 8 years, Oli's goal totals have been 38, 39, 34, 29, 15, 17, 23, 13 (prorated last year for a full season).

Last 4 years totals are 15, 17, 23, 13. 23 kind of looks like the anomaly. Based on the last four years, and at almost 35 years of age, scoring between 10 and 15 goals for the season is what we should expect. He has never been a set-up guy. What a waste playing him with Kane

 

[truck]

Over the last 8 years, Oli's goal totals have been 38, 39, 34, 29, 15, 17, 23, 13 (prorated last year for a full season).

Last 4 years totals are 15, 17, 23, 13. 23 kind of looks like the anomaly. Based on the last four years, and at almost 35 years of age, scoring between 10 and 15 goals for the season is what we should expect. He has never been a set-up guy. What a waste playing him with Kane

In a 2nd/3rd line role with less than 1st unit PP time, 30-40 point is all we should expect.