Fan 590 Reports Players Are Angry

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Crazy Lunatic, Feb 12, 2005.

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  1. NHL has lifted the owners gag order and have requested they call their players to discuss what is going on from the owners end. Fan 590 just reported that the players have been calling Goodenow and are very upset at the prospect of a cancelled season. Now if this ESPN thing is true (that they reported the NHLPA is willing to discuss a cap with no linkage) then the end might be near for the lockout. I can't believe I actually have my hopes up again, but here goes.

    Bettman clearly hasn't given up as asking the owners to start calling all of their players and pleading the owners case is a big move. If the Fan 590 and this ESPN report (which I can't verify yet) are indeed true, then there may be hope!
     
  2. bladoww

    bladoww Team of the Future

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    We are in the same boat my friend.
     
  3. Pass me one of those oars! :yo:
     
  4. Bruwinz37

    Bruwinz37 Registered User

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    I am confident a season will be played. Not that I have any inside info, just common sense. It doesnt make sense for either side to drag this into next year. If they do they could literally kill the NHL. The players arent stupid. They must know they wont get a better deal next October than they will now.

    I will say it again.45m hard cap, 30m floor. Its the best way to go for all sides. I am very pro owner, but if you cant make your team profit with a payroll of 30m then you shouldnt have a team, period.
     
  5. Scoogs

    Scoogs Registered User

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    Well there was always that saying "Things are the darkest before dawn", in labour negotiations. I would think that Thursday was definately the darkest day in this 150 day lockout. I just don't want to get my hopes up for them to be broken again. So right now I am anticipating bad news, so when/if good news comes, then I will be :handclap: 'ing. :D
     
  6. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    For hockey fans this is just gut wrenching...I don't know what to think...one thing is for sure though, deal or not I want Goodenow and Bettman gone... :banghead: :mad: :madfire:
     
  7. Nich

    Nich Registered User

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    the seasons toast...don't bother getting your hopes up....

    fire bob, and gary....freakin idiots....

    let's go yankees!!! :handclap:
     
  8. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    I was in agreement with ya until I saw Yankees...
     
  9. SmokeyClause

    SmokeyClause Registered User

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    Your boat sucks. Mine has twin engines :D Full throttle to hockey baby!

    This is the most optimistic I've been. I have not allowed myself to get swept up by reports that the sides have made progress, but I couldn't help but get excited with this news.
     
  10. Lobstertainment

    Lobstertainment Oh no, my brains.

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    I christian our vestle the HMS Titanic

    :dunce:
     
  11. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    The Yankees and what they are the worst example of in baseball is one reason why so many are so strongly pro-owner in hockey. We already have one 'sport' ruined we do not want it to happen in hockey too.
     
  12. PeterSidorkiewicz

    PeterSidorkiewicz Registered User

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    I was just wondering if the Go Yankees person was in favour of a cap in the NHL or not.
     
  13. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    That would be hypocritical wouldn't it? Kinda like the PA members playing for peanuts all over the world, but won't play for millions in a cost controlled NHL???
     
  14. Son of Steinbrenner

    Son of Steinbrenner Registered User

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    why because the average salary in baseball has gone down since the past cba was signed?

    is it because the yankees pay 90 million in luxary tax and revenue sharing?

    I fail to see how baseball is ruined by the yankees. NOT.ONE.OWNER. COMPLAINS WHEN THE YANKEES COME TO TOWN AND THEY SELL OUT. NOT.ONE.OWNER. COMPLAINS WHEN THE LUXARY TAX/REVENUE SHARING CHECK COMES IN THE MAIL. I fail to see how baseball is ruined.

    Baseball is proof that a luxary tax works. Its not like the yankees are winning the world series every year.
     
  15. Reilly311

    Reilly311 Guest


    :lol

    classic
     
  16. Scoogs

    Scoogs Registered User

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    I know when the Yankee's come to the SkyDome (Rogers Centre... :shakehead ) it's almost a sold out crowd. Mostly consisting of Yankee fans but hey, who cares. Money is money, and the Jays need alot of it. The Yankee's know what they are doing, and are paying dearly for it. The fact remains though, that they can afford what they are doing. So I don't have any type of grudge against them.
     
  17. Benji Frank

    Benji Frank Registered User

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    If Betman comes out of this with something close to cost certainty, I think he'll be resigned for a long long time. Who can you think of that can put the weight of 2 billion $$$'s, 730 players, 30 owners and several hundred thousand fans and corporate sponsers on his shoulders and come out with close to what he went in looking for???

    Goodenow's got it easy. He just sits at the other end saying Fa Koff after every proposal knowing the owners got no choice but to keep offerring a little bit more.... I just hope Betman plays his one remaining card and cancels the season knowing 730 players are going to attack Goodenow for not only letting the elastic bend, but also break........ then I'm guessing Bobby G will come back tot he table saying "What was that you were offerring a couple of weeks ago again???"
     
  18. Keep dreaming, day dreamer.
     
  19. MLH

    MLH Registered User

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    The Yankees/Sawk "rivalry" (isn't it more of an auction?) is why I hate MLB.
     
  20. BLONG7

    BLONG7 Registered User

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    You forgot to take your meds today didn't you...
     
  21. bladoww

    bladoww Team of the Future

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    Blong... why must you keep on distracting us with that avatar?! :yo: :handclap:
     
  22. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    I am still waiting for you to respond to my points on this, but have had about a week of silence. But to :teach: you again, to which I expect no response . . . again . . . Baseball proves just the opposite . . .

    2000:
    The highest spender The NY Hogs, spent $95,285,187, the lowest spenders, The Twins, spent $16,723,347, or 5.7 times as much.

    2001:
    The highest spender The NY Hogs, spent $114,457,768, the lowest spenders, The Twins, spent $27,411,912, or 4.18 times as much.

    2002:
    The highest spender The NY Hogs, spent $138,423,649, the lowest spenders, The Tampa Bay, spent $35,882,301, or 3.86 times as much.

    2003:
    The highest spender The NY Hogs, spent $169,588,508, the lowest spenders, The Tampa Bay, spent $27,434,258, or 6.18 times as much.

    2004:
    The highest spender The NY Hogs, spent $187,918,394, the lowest spenders, The Tampa Bay, spent $24,427,167, or 7.7 times as much.


    In 2005 the hogs are projected to spend considerably over $200 million. How has a luxury tax slowed them in the least?

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20....comparison.ap/

    Final ps:

    A study done that fairly conclusively shows the disparity set forth above adversly and quantifiably leads to massive competitive imbalance. So it definately does matter and undermines the credibility of a sport.

    http://www.economicsbulletin.uiuc.edu/2003/volume1/EB-03A10003A.pdf

    Now some quotes from George Will commenting on the blue ribbon panel he along with Paul Volker, a couple of others chaired to 'fix' baseball's problems. The points made still have relevence as the fixes of the 2002 CBA are proving to be no fixes at all, as shown above, the same disparities exist and divergence between spending is even more pronounced. None of the recommendations of the blue ribbon panel assembled before that 2002 new CBA were implimented. Some points made:

    The union believes that unconstrained spending by the richest three teams pulls up all payrolls. Most owners believe that baseball's problems--competitive imbalance, the parlous financial conditions of many clubs--result from large and growing disparities of what are mistakenly treated as ``local'' revenues.

    These disparities largely reflect differences in teams' broadcasting revenues. The Yankees' broadcasting revenues ($62 million) are more than those of seven other teams (Kansas City, Minnesota, Oakland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Florida, Milwaukee) (BEG ITAL)combined.

    The owners' initial proposal included two recommendations of the Blue Ribbon Panel on Baseball Economics (George Mitchell, Paul Volcker, Yale's President Richard Levin and this columnist). One is increased revenue sharing (from 20 percent to 50 percent of so-called ``local revenues''). The other, to slow payroll growth, is a 50 percent tax on the portion of any team's payroll in excess of $98 million. Neither recommendation involves a new or radical concept. Baseball has revenue sharing now. It had a luxury tax from 1997 through 1999.

    The union's initial proposal was to increase revenue sharing only to 22.5 percent, and (BEG ITAL)no tax. The union likes the status quo. But this is the status quo:

    Of the 224 postseason games since the 1994 strike, 219 have been won by teams in the top two payroll quartiles. All World Series games since the strike have been won by teams in the top quartile. In 1991, 13 of the other 25 teams had payrolls at least 75 percent as large as the Yankees' payroll (which was smaller than Oakland's). Today, only four of the other 29 do. When the Yankees play the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, which they do 19 times this season, there is a $97 million payroll disparity ($135 million to $38 million). One day this May the Mets fielded a $63 million starting lineup against a $4 million Padres lineup.


    http://www.townhall.com/columnists/georgewill/gw20020810.shtml
     
  23. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    Absolute correct SOS. :handclap:

    Of course, its much easier NOT to bring oneself up to date with baseball's booming economics, and the fact that competitively the sport has had four different champions the last four seasons (none named "Yankees") - an occurance, that should it have happened in the glorious NFL would be characterized by these same critics as wonderful "parity".

    Much easier to lazily spew out old cliches about how the sport of baseball is imperiled. Reading is fundamental, here's just one story that the knee-jerk reactionists ("baseball is in ruins! The Yankees buy everything! Its not Fair!" :speechles ) might want to read. Dave Shenin's Feb. 4 article for the Washington Post, "Baseball's Financial Reins Bringing Yankees to Heel."

    But of course, that would take the courage to enlighten oneself with information contrary :eek: to their own hard-headed beliefs. You know, along the lines of those demaguagues still maintaining that there are WMDs in Iraq, and that there are martians on Mars. ;)
     
  24. I have no more optimism.
     
  25. Puckhead

    Puckhead Registered User

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    It will be interesting to see when the next labour situation rears its ugly head in MLB. If in fact the commissioner and the owners don't like the way things are going, then they will be in the same situation as the NHL is now. I feel that baseball has more to lose than hockey simply because it is a major sport, whereas hockey was never a major player in the States, and ironically enough that is where more than 2/3 of the teams reside.

    Until someone tells the Yankees or Mets or Bosox or Dodgers or Orioles etc...that they can't spend money like water, then they are doing nothing wrong. They know how much money they make, so even though they spend ridiculous amounts of it, their revenues far outweigh their spending.

    At the end of the day, if you're making a lot more money than you are spending, isn't that just good business?

    The reason I side with the owners in Hockey is not because I think the players are greedy, or because I think the Owners are right, even though I probably do, it is simply because for the good of the game, and that is all I am interested in, this has to happen. The game cannot exist if the players keep making this type of money.

    Nobody wins if there is no hockey this year, but when you look at it logically, the players have far more to lose than the owners. Afterall, as we've seen so far this lockout, where will they go to make that type of money? The owners have other investments, but the players will be forced to actually work for a living.

    I don't know about any of you, but every time I hear a player talk it reinforces my point that they are in fact clueless when it comes to business. I guess that's why they have agents.

    For example... Jose Theodore was quoted early on in this lockout as saying...He may have to consider returning to school and possibly think about another career. Hello? What career choice is going to offer him $6 Million a year?

    I realize that there are some very intelligent, well informed players out there, but unfortunately for the PA, and the PR they aren't saying much.

    The sport is in a world of hurt, and the owners are to blame. But now they are trying to fix their mistakes, and asking the players for help. Help which does not seem to be forthcoming.

    I have had this conversation with many people, but I for one would love to see any type of an NHL season this year. Some have asked me, if I am that hard up for hockey action, but the truth is, that if they get a deal this season, then as laughable as it may be now, we will all be thankful for it when September rolls around and they start training camps on time. That is why I hope that somehow my prayers regarding the lockout are answered in the next 36 hours or so. If they lose this season, they will be out until at least January of '06, and if that happens then Bettman's promise of 30 viable teams will not only seem like a pipedream, it will be an impossibility.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2005
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