FA/Trade Thread 14-15 Season V.23 | post trade deadline

[darrylsittler27]

I think it is Phaneuff who is gone.

He has a 12 team NTC and we could eat some salary to up his value. When you want change it starts with the captain, Phaneuff was rammed into the wrong role and overpaid for it. Kessel is an $8M sniper whose value could be upped with a star C feeding him.

We can't just give him away but with Phaneuff we can ask less, eat some salary and call it a change in leadership.

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun, the Detroit Red Wings and Toronto Maple Leafs might still talk about Dion Phaneuf this summer.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/03/07/cap-scared-many-teams-off-deals

Don't dismiss the talk about Maple Leafs' captain Dion Phaneuf being dealt to the Wings, there were serious discussions between the two teams. Those talks were so deep that even Leafs' president Brendan Shanahan may have been involved with his former team at one point with GM Dave Nonis to see if the deal could come to fruition. There were plenty of names thrown into the mix by the Leafs -- including asks for the likes of defenceman Jakub Kindl and Detroit prospect Anthony Mantha. The Wings would have insisted Toronto take back centre Stephen Weiss as part of any deal if Detroit was going to take a massive contract like Phaneuf's off the books. With talks going nowhere, the belief is Wings' GM Ken Holland felt it would be better for both sides if they revisited this trade in the off-season and that's why he made the deal for New Jersey blueline Marek Zidlicky.

"What usually happens is these trades get too big to do at the deadline," said a league executive.

"It's OK for the Leafs because they're going nowhere this year and trying to rebuild. The Wings have something pretty good going."

Has to be tough for Phaneuf to swallow because at some point in all this he would have had to approve a move to Detroit. The Ducks and Kings both had interest as well so let's see what happens in the off-season.

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to Steve Simmons of the Toronto Sun, the Toronto Maple Leafs may have to determine to keep one (Dion Phaneuf or Phil Kessel) going forward.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/07/who-will-be-the-first-leaf-to-fall-kessel-or-phaneuf

TORONTO - Who goes first amongst the brothers in arms: Phil Kessel or his friend, Dion Phaneuf?

And what is a realistic expectation for the Maple Leafs in trading their two highest-paid, highest-profile players?

The situations are quite different contract-wise. Kessel is the eighth highest-paid forward in the NHL and finds himself 34th in league scoring. Next year, he drops down a few slots contract-wise. But, historically, he has been a top-10 scorer, which equates to his usual production.

A hockey trade involving Kessel might be possible. The contract isn’t necessarily terrible by NHL standards.

The opposite will likely occur with Phaneuf, who is tied for sixth amongst NHL defencemen in salary cap numbers. He is tied with Drew Doughty, which doesn’t look good on the Leafs. He is behind P.K. Subban, Shea Weber, Ryan Suter and Kris Letang, which is beyond Phaneuf’s spectre as a player. Brian Campbell is ahead of Phaneuf on the pay grade, and he, too has a roll-your-eyes type of contract.

Almost certainly, the Leafs are going to have to eat salary in any Phaneuf deal or take back a questionable contract in exchange. The challenge here: They can’t be giving these assets away — top-end players — and yet they might not be able to achieve anything resembling similar value in exchange.

Both players are expected gone by September. But that deadline comes with some reason. The Leafs may have to determine to keep one — not both — going forward. It’s a large and important juggling act for the forever struggling club.

 

[QMJHLfollower]

According to Steve Simmons of the Toronto Sun, the Toronto Maple Leafs may have to determine to keep one (Dion Phaneuf or Phil Kessel) going forward.

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/07/who-will-be-the-first-leaf-to-fall-kessel-or-phaneuf

I'd rather move both if we can get solid return, but I'd keep Phaneuf before Kessel.

He'll get a lesser return, but still is our top defenceman and compete every nights.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I'd rather move both if we can get solid return, but I'd keep Phaneuf before Kessel.

He'll get a lesser return, but still is our top defenceman and compete every nights.

Pretty much this.

 

[timlap]

I'd rather move both if we can get solid return, but I'd keep Phaneuf before Kessel.

He'll get a lesser return, but still is our top defenceman and compete every nights.

Pretty much this.

I agree. I wouldn't move Phaneuf unless it was really a good deal for us. I'd be perfectly willing to keep him, otherwise.

I don't dislike Kessel, but I think it's time to move him for sure.

 

[Teeder9]

I'd rather move both if we can get solid return, but I'd keep Phaneuf before Kessel.

He'll get a lesser return, but still is our top defenceman and compete every nights.

I am beginning to see it like this as well. I can pick half a dozen times last night Phaneuf put it out there. I can't pick once in the past month Kessel did

 

[ULF_55]

I agree. I wouldn't move Phaneuf unless it was really a good deal for us. I'd be perfectly willing to keep him, otherwise.

I don't dislike Kessel, but I think it's time to move him for sure.

I'd move Phaneuf before Kessel if only one could go.

Phaneuf is just a glorified #2 defender when he's playing well.

Nothing elite about him whatsoever, and he's overpaid and not going to get any better.

Under his leadership the team is garbage, without character, and won't change direction if he's still in a leadership position.

Kessel is a soft, one-dimensional player like we argued last summer with many claiming he wasn't the problem. He had so many defenders, and where are they today? He hasn't changed, he's the same player he was last summer. I had hope he'd grow his game, you don't have to be big to play with courage.

Both have to go, but Phaneuf should go first IMO.

 

[Teeder9]

I'd move Phaneuf before Kessel if only one could go.

Phaneuf is just a glorified #2 defender when he's playing well.

Nothing elite about him whatsoever, and he's overpaid and not going to get any better.

Under his leadership the team is garbage, without character, and won't change direction if he's still in a leadership position.

But at least he tries. You really think coaching is what is stopping Kessel from scoring right now? He doesn't care, at all. There is nothing more toxic then that in sports.

 

[ULF_55]

But at least he tries. You really think coaching is what is stopping Kessel from scoring right now? He doesn't care, at all. There is nothing more toxic then that in sports.

Oh, I want them both gone, but one is supposed to be the leader of the team, while the other is just an elite scorer.

The team lacks leadership, and Kessel has never and never will be in the role.

 

[Teeder9]

Oh, I want them both gone, but one is supposed to be the leader of the team, while the other is just an elite scorer.

The team lacks leadership, and Kessel has never and never will be in the role.

I understand where you come from, but I just can't get past one not being a great leader but still playing as well as he can on the ice and the other being a player that I don't want young players around. I've worked with guys like that and it brings everyone down to their level

 

[Trapper]

I'd move Phaneuf before Kessel if only one could go.

Phaneuf is just a glorified #2 defender when he's playing well.

Nothing elite about him whatsoever, and he's overpaid and not going to get any better.

Under his leadership the team is garbage, without character, and won't change direction if he's still in a leadership position.

Kessel is a soft, one-dimensional player like we argued last summer with many claiming he wasn't the problem. He had so many defenders, and where are they today? He hasn't changed, he's the same player he was last summer. I had hope he'd grow his game, you don't have to be big to play with courage.

Both have to go, but Phaneuf should go first IMO.

I'm of the opposite opinion. Kessel should be the first out. While I'm not a Phaneuf supporter in any way, at least he can play whatever system you wish to put in place. Or at least try. He might be used higher in the lineup than he should be and (2 million overpaid) but D is more important to take the pressure off the young guys. Ultimately though, a window needs to be opened on this team to let the stale air out, the air of repeated associated collapses, Bozak/Kessel/Phaneuf/Lupul systematically changed.

 

[ULF_55]

I'm of the opposite opinion. Kessel should be the first out. While I'm not a Phaneuf supporter in any way, at least he can play whatever system you wish to put in place. Or at least try. He might be used higher in the lineup than he should be and (2 million overpaid) but D is more important to take the pressure off the young guys. Ultimately though, a window needs to be opened on this team to let the stale air out, the air of repeated associated collapses, Bozak/Kessel/Phaneuf/Lupul systematically changed.

I think the house cleaning needs to go much deeper than these guys.

24 years old isn't too young to show some leadership. Drafted at 18, at 24 still floating in entitlement from being a 1st. round pick. Enough!

Phaneuf has that 'C' on his chest, and if he's willing to take it off and get back in line then keep him around. While he wears that letter he's a problem.

 

[Teeder9]

I think the house cleaning needs to go much deeper than these guys.

24 years old isn't too young to show some leadership. Drafted at 18, at 24 still floating in entitlement from being a 1st. round pick. Enough!

Phaneuf has that 'C' on his chest, and if he's willing to take it off and get back in line then keep him around. While he wears that letter he's a problem.

I know who you're talking about and I agree. It's like apts with cockroaches. Cleaning just the kitchen isn't helping anything

 

[Johny Drama]

I really think both Phaneuf and Kessel will be gone. Maybe it takes a bit longer, but really seems like management has seen enough of this core group and shipping them out will be a big priority between the draft and training camp next year.
With regards to Phaneuf, I see it playing out like this. If we want a pretty return in terms of prospects and picks etc, we will have to eat a portion of his contract or take back some salary. If not, the return wont be quite as high.

Personally, I would settle for a decent return on these players not a great return, just to turn the page and move on.
Maybe in the minority, but I would also look to deal Bernier at the draft if the price is right and he is looking for a long term deal.
Have to think there will be some teams who miss playoffs or get knocked out early who may overpay for a keeper.

 

[Peasy]

I'd move Phaneuf before Kessel if only one could go.

Phaneuf is just a glorified #2 defender when he's playing well.

Nothing elite about him whatsoever, and he's overpaid and not going to get any better.

Under his leadership the team is garbage, without character, and won't change direction if he's still in a leadership position.

Kessel is a soft, one-dimensional player like we argued last summer with many claiming he wasn't the problem. He had so many defenders, and where are they today? He hasn't changed, he's the same player he was last summer. I had hope he'd grow his game, you don't have to be big to play with courage.

Both have to go, but Phaneuf should go first IMO.

Funny how times change lol... I remember stating over and over again last summer that the Leafs will never make it anywhere with Phaneuf and Kessel.

Probably the same people that thought Carlyle was the problem and things would turn around once he was gone

 

[Trapper]

I think the house cleaning needs to go much deeper than these guys.

24 years old isn't too young to show some leadership. Drafted at 18, at 24 still floating in entitlement from being a 1st. round pick. Enough!

Phaneuf has that 'C' on his chest, and if he's willing to take it off and get back in line then keep him around. While he wears that letter he's a problem.

You can't get rid of everyone so you start with the elder statesmen. Kessel/Phaneuf start the rebuild. Now you see how players like Kadri/JVR respond. Do they display the skill + character/compete you are looking for moving forward?
Keep in mind, Kadri might not even be the end solution. Whoever we draft this year (be it Strome/Marner/Barzal etc. are already 7 years younger than Kadri. If you look at the majority of teams cores in the NHL, they are usually within 5 years of each other. Once you have started the process, players like JVR/Kadri might become trade bait to strengthen a core.
Rielly 94, Gauthier 95, Nylander 96, this year 97, next year 98.

 

[notdoneyet]

The problem with this team is Phil Kessel is the leader.
Dion might have the C but Phil is the true leader of this team.
Bozak JVR lupul all look up to phil and that is the problem.

Look Dion may have his warts but no one can deny the fact that
he plays each game until the end.

Phil,Bozak,JVR Lupul these guys have checked out!

Phil has to go!!

 

[William Hylander]

I would have no issues taking Weiss, especially if Bozak is traded to another team.

 

[showtime8]

I would have no issues taking Weiss, especially if Bozak is traded to another team.

Then you haven't watched Weiss play. He's definitely not an upgrade on Bozak. He gets hidden in that system behind Datsyuk and other talented players.

Weiss is awful.

 

[Trapper]

Then you haven't watched Weiss play. He's definitely not an upgrade on Bozak. He gets hidden in that system behind Datsyuk and other talented players.

Weiss is awful.

If you are rebuilding that's the point. Neither Weiss or Bozak are the long term solution, just fodder to insulate the young guys or allow them another year in junior/AHL.

 

[Teeder9]

I think the important thing is just getting rid of Bozak. Take back herpes if that's the best offer.

 

[showtime8]

If you are rebuilding that's the point. Neither Weiss or Bozak are the long term solution, just fodder to insulate the young guys or allow them another year in junior/AHL.

Then what's the point in acquiring Weiss? He makes 700k more than Bozak and is 3 years older.

If you're looking to get rid of Bozak, trade him for prospects and sign a guy like Fleischmann at half the price in free agency for half the amount of time.

Cap space is going to be one of the Leafs greatest assets going forward. And as sad as that sounds, it's an important thing to consider for when teams are looking to offload bloated contracts and in return the Leafs could get more of a return.

Take the Holzer trade that Anaheim made at the deadline. For the Ducks to acquire Wisniewski, they needed to get rid of Brewer's contract. His play had declined so much that they gave the Leafs a 5th round pick for Holzer. A guy that they could have claimed on the waivers earlier in the year. A 5th round pick doesn't seem to be like very much right now, but if it turns into a guy like Connor Brown, Palat or Andrew Shaw, then people are over the moon about it.

 

[showtime8]

I think the important thing is just getting rid of Bozak. Take back herpes if that's the best offer.

I don't know if you can cure either of those situations.

 

[Teeder9]

I don't know if you can cure either of those situations.

At least with herpes you can take something to alleviate the problem