Exploring the options - NHLPA Agents hire top Gun

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Mess, May 8, 2005.

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  1. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    From the Sportsnet Article

    Looks like the NHLPA is getting some advice that could be useful in challenging a CBA and possibly decertification or even rights of undrafted players, unsigned prospects and soon to RFA ..

    Seems a bit strange considering Daly says the CBA will address all the issues !!!!.
     
  2. Crazy_Ike

    Crazy_Ike Cookin' with fire.

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    You realize there's a difference between IMG and the NHLPA, right?

    You seem to think its the NHLPA who has hired him.

    Either way though yet more evidence that the PA isn't really interested in any deal and just wants to play more media and legal games, as they clearly have been for years now.
     
  3. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    You do realize that IMG is the largest and most influential players agents group directly employed by the NHLPA right??

    Wouldn't look good as you pointed out if Goodenow hired him directly and brought him to the meetings after all now would it ??
     
  4. Crazy_Ike

    Crazy_Ike Cookin' with fire.

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    And those agents are probably the single most pissed off at Goodenow group right now. Their priorities and Goodenow's priorities are not exactly the same.

    You so sure he's going to be used against the NHL, and not the NHLPA? Boy that would stick in your craw, wouldn't it.

    :D
     
  5. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Do you know what anti-trust is ??

    Nope he works for the Good Guys ..:D

     
  6. Jarqui

    Jarqui Registered User

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    I can't get too excited. No CBA deal means no antitrust suit at this point. When they sign the CBA deal, it's very tough to make an antitrust case against a CBA. The league has Proskauer Rose who are top notch themselves in sports antitrust. If the NHL hires another hot shot, doesn that mean ***-for-tat ?
     
  7. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    THe NHLPA would not sign a CBA that is the whole point. The sides are getting farther a part not closer.

    This has IMPASSE CBA and Decertification issues written all over it, as that is what the NFLPA did remember ..

    Quinn was the lawyer that pushed the NFL players Anti-trust cases through the US courts to put pressure on the NFL owners as the anti-trust claims started being awarded and penalties announced. It also forced the NFL to go back to the old CBA ..

    Also this has underlying player issues of rights of draft picks and RFA and Crosby to fight for Freedom.
     
  8. Jarqui

    Jarqui Registered User

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    Getting all worked up over this at this point would leave me with the Chcken Little syndrome.
     
  9. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Registered User

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    if somehow this guy can help the habs to land crosby with antitrust law .. the board will turn crazy !
     
  10. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Just giving you the heads up now what could be coming down the pipeline ..

    This way it will not come as big shock to your system in the future as things unfold.

    The date that you start claiming IF & WHEN the "Sky is falling" I leave up to you to decide.
     
  11. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    We could see decertification and an end to the draft/RFA.

    The NHL governing body would no longer be the nominated bargaining entity and could be freed up to implement competition rules and monitor entrants and have almost nothing to do with player contracts, leaving that up to each club to sort out.

    The NHL governing body could implemement rules as conditions of entry. Sports/competitions make up these types of entry rules, one of which might be a maximum spending limit. Optional entry. so if clubs don't like it, they can go somewhere else.

    The clubs would have to deal with the players directly. All UFA based contracts, no prospects, and probably be no trading either.

    The players can't sue their clubs for anti-trust because they are contracted directly to the club and the club has not implemented a salary cap.

    Anyone for an all UFA, $30m capped league?
     
  12. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    How far are we really off that now in negoiations?? ..

    The NHL latest offer has a ceiling at $35 mil and step penalties to get there. Before the Lockout even began the NHL floated the 31 mil Hard Cap .. Took us a whole year of nothing and we are right back to square one ..

    IF the NHL Owners offered total UFA for the players within a cap system we might even get a negotiated CBA that would avoid all the messy anti-trust issues right there ..

    The key chip the Owners have not yet dangled is the UFA one ..
     
  13. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    It was up to $42.5m (possibly $45m) at one stage. Things seem to be going backwards for the NHLPA.
     
  14. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    Please explain exactly how there could be a cap in a decertified world.
     
  15. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    Try reading his post.

    PS I'm sure the NHL lawyers are shaking in their boots over facing the lawyer that got the NFL the most owner friendly CBA in pro-sports. :biglaugh:
     
  16. joepeps

    joepeps Registered User

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    I don't see how you can have a cap base on number when they don't trust each other and.. as EVERYONE knows... companies hind money. spend it on thier other companies and write **** off... it's a blond-face-lye as to what they really make... :teach:
     
  17. Jarqui

    Jarqui Registered User

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    One way: the owners could merge their assets into the Bain Capital structure as 30 owners of one company because without a certified union, they couldn't hold a draft, etc or they would be subject to anti-trust. There would be no union existing to stop them from restructuring. As a single company, they can just set payroll budgets for their 30 franchises and transfer employees to work at those franchises as any company does. That's the MLSoccer model which the NHl's legal firm was successful implementing.

    To me, decertification means the lemmings have disappeared from view, over the edge of the cliff.
     
  18. Schlep Rock

    Schlep Rock Registered User

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    Not really... Newport Sports is the biggest (Don Meehan).
     
  19. Weary

    Weary Registered User

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    The only reason MLS got away with that was the European option. The decision was based on the fact that players could make as much or more in Europe. Is that the case in hockey?

    All decertification means is that players feel they can get a better deal individually than they can collectively.
     
  20. Jarqui

    Jarqui Registered User

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    It was not as simple as all that :
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/mls/news/2000/12/01/mls_lawsuit_ap/

    http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cach...S+antitrust+decision+"O'Toole"&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

    The NHL as a business can demonstrate fiscal failure over a number of years. With decertification, that is clear evidence of collective bargaining failure. In order for the NHL owners to salvage their situation, they can make the case that the circumstances gave them little choice - they had to restructure in order to continue legally to manage some level of fair competition of their league beyond which owner has the most money to buy talent. The court's acceptance of MLS doing what they did was partially based upon prior failures of the multi-owner structures.

    The past history of the WHA and the recent history of it's efforts to compete as well as the multi million dollar contracts in Europe do cloud the monopoly claim for the players. The NHL has a good case for restructuring because it is illegal for them to continue as they presently are without a CBA - decertification gives them no legal choice but to change.

    Decertification doesn't say "The NHL owners have no options now and can only do one thing with their assets for all eternity." If it did, the players would have leaped for decertification last September 15th and not bothered with negotiations when they can all be UFAs. Decertification abandons all the rights provided to the players under the LRAs and basically says "its every man for himself".

    Decertification is a desperate act - an act of last resort but one that could well pave the way for a long term, solid ownership control of the NHL for the rest of our lives.
     
  21. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    He is on retainer to the NHLPA and advsises on antitrust matters.
     
  22. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    Since Quinn already advises the NHLPA, I think there is not much chance of that.

    IMG has been one of Goodenow's strongest supporters through the dispute.
     
  23. thinkwild

    thinkwild Veni Vidi Toga

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    Prior failures? Why cant they can restructure using the players framework?


    The MLS decision was an interesting read. One thing that came to mind when reading the appeals of the jury verdict on the relevant market, is how you could win a case on process. You want good lawyers. This written decision sure seemed to frame the players as plaintiffs as the suspect, or maybe it was just me.

    It seems it failed with a jury, first on the grounds of the relevant market, and then their inability to combine to control it as a small cog. But not prior failures.

    I guess that reasons. But it also would seem to stand to reason that the NHL owners would be definitely be combining previously individual companies for the purposes of restraining salaries for which they are more easily than MLS described as a single market. Unless I guess Bain starts another league. Then monopolizing a single market may become a harder claim to make. Maybe thats why the league was making the case that the NHL isnt a major league anymore.

    The other point was that MLS owned all the teams, intellectual property rights, tickets, equipment, broadcast rights, negotiated all stadium leaases assuming the liabilities, paid players and paid the owner/operators with a management fee. The NHL should think about this. Would Jacobs be willing to own his team for a mangement fee?

    But, if the NHL owners all wanted to pool their money, buy stadiums centrally, negotiate all deals, that would be revenue sharing, what the players are after. In a situation like that, setting a percentage like 54% might mean something. But in their current incarnation, it is a meaningless number.

    Of course another centralized function outlined in this MLS case was central boardroom decisions on how to allocate the marquee players for our entertainment pleasure. There's something i find uncomfortable about that. The rational marketplace provides an integrity and assurance I, (in a minority it seems), feel is needed for those the sporting and competitive integrity above the business and entertainment value.

    Although the players calls for revenue sharing seem to dangerously opportune the owners with a way to go down the path of centralization MLS used


    I like the way he put is as a vertical device for producing horizontal coordination, limiting competition among operator/investors..

    I want to dismiss the inevitable forthcoming suggestion from some that other leagues define the market, as it is obviously only this league that defines the competitive value of their services. MLS made great hay out of the reasoning that the existing competition was none. An NHL owner merger would seem to be more than a bump against the phrase "may .. lessen competition"


    The "New" market exemption was an interesting one. I guess it makes sense in that if you combine to reduce salaries too much you will induce competition, and its only at that point that combining really means anything. But how could the NHL owners ever obtain such a distinction now? Still, it puts Bain in a more emphasiszed perspective.
     
  24. alecfromtherock

    alecfromtherock Registered User

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    From your quote it would appear that IMG is only talking about Sidney Crosby and the other 75 NHL players they represent.

    Why should IMG give a rats-ass about the other 625+ NHL players whom they do not represent?

    Players lost an entire years worth of salaries under the guidance of the NHLPA, explain to me why IMG and other agents support the PA?
     
  25. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Short term pains for long term gains
     
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