Expansion Draft Thread II

[Karl Eriksson]

The more I think about it the more I realize just how analytically difficult this is for McPhee and staff. Other teams protect their guys or not, but McPhee has to weigh so many variables at once.

It's probably easy for him to pull off a good draft, but it's almost impossible to pull off an optimal one with so many dependent variables.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Without speadsheeting and tallying everything up, the collective rumors of big salaries and cap dumps Vegas is supposed to be taking in deals seem to be approaching impossible cap territory.

Although, both Clarkson and likely Grabovski will be heading to LTIR in September.

 

[donkshow]

I just don't understand how people can be so dense. Why in the world would anaheim let a guy like Manson go unprotected unless a deal is done with Vegas.

You think GMBM fell asleep and forgot? what other explanation can you provide for not trading Manson to someone like Arizona (who protected a bunch of scrubs) for even a 3rd? Isn't that better than nothing? come on people.

Why, so then they can let Vatanen get picked? You can only protect so many players. Who do you think they would have protected Manson over if they "only left him unprotected because they have a deal"? Your theory makes zero sense. I just realized you're a Ducks fan, so you're in denial. That's okay.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses, losing one dman in this situation seems to be their prerogative.

 

[nbducksfan19]

The more I think about it the more I realize just how analytically difficult this is for McPhee and staff. Other teams protect their guys or not, but McPhee has to weigh so many variables at once.

It's probably easy for him to pull off a good draft, but it's almost impossible to pull off an optimal one with so many dependent variables.

I think you are right - I think they thing they had to weigh which was very challenging was if it is better to strong arm the league, force teams to make moves they don't want to and maybe in the end get a bit of a better roster. Or if it is better to work with a lot of teams and allow them to keep players they want and just collect fees like candy in the value of picks/prospects.

My sense is the latter is the path they choose and this is why there was not a flurry of trades before the Trade Freeze. IMO this was likely the right choice as it gives them the currency to build a team to compete in the next several years, and the cost to that strategy may only mean them being the worst team in the NHL as opposed to just one of the worst.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Why, so then they can let Vatanen get picked? You can only protect so many players. Who do you think they would have protected Manson over if they "only left him unprotected because they have a deal"? Your theory makes zero sense. I just realized you're a Ducks fan, so you're in denial. That's okay.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses, losing one dman in this situation seems to be their prerogative.

You're condescending tone is ironic given your obvious lack of understanding. You don't think they get biesksa to waive or buy him out if it meant not losing Vatanen for free. Get a clue.

 

[Blue Goose]

Without speadsheeting and tallying everything up, the collective rumors of big salaries and cap dumps Vegas is supposed to be taking in deals seem to be approaching impossible cap territory.

Although, both Clarkson and likely Grabovski will be heading to LTIR in September.

Since Clarkson/Grabovski can't actually be selected in the expansion draft, I can see those deals being consummated AFTER the Knights trade off some of the assets from the expansion draft (Mrazek, Demers, Perron). That should give us the space needed to make the moves.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[s7ark]

I just don't understand how people can be so dense. Why in the world would anaheim let a guy like Manson go unprotected unless a deal is done with Vegas.

You think GMBM fell asleep and forgot? what other explanation can you provide for not trading Manson to someone like Arizona (who protected a bunch of scrubs) for even a 3rd? Isn't that better than nothing? come on people.

What other choice did the Ducks have? If Bieksa wasn't going to waive(and it sounds like he wasn't), then they could either protect Manson and expose Silfverberg/Rakell, or expose Manson. McPhee said before the deadline that no deals with anyone had been worked out.

The cost to keep Vegas away from Manson should be huge. That is a guy that McPhee should be all over.

 

[nbducksfan19]

What other choice did the Ducks have? If Bieksa wasn't going to waive(and it sounds like he wasn't), then they could either protect Manson and expose Silfverberg/Rakell, or expose Mason. McPhee said before the deadline that no deals with anyone had been worked out.

The cost to keep Vegas away from Mason should be huge. That is a guy that McPhee should be all over.

Where does it sound like this? The voices in your head? Also, the other obvious choice is to Buy Out bieska. A small price to pay to protect Vatanen.

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[s7ark]

where does it sound like this? voices in your head? Also, the other obvious choice is to Buy Out bieska. A small price to pay to protect Vatanen.

Can't buy out an injured player. And it's pretty reasonable to assume that the Ducks didn't ask him to waive because he let them know he wasn't going to. There is no incentive for him to risk getting picked by a team that will struggle for a few year when he is already on a contender, in California.

 

[mouser]

Although, both Clarkson and likely Grabovski will be heading to LTIR in September.

Yeah, though their combined contracts exceed the offseason +10% cap bump.

Now we're hearing rumors about Lehtonen, Kulemin, "a cap dump from TB", and others. Those numbers add up quickly.

 

[mouser]

If reports are correct that's likely just protection trades. Supposedly McPhee is handling the "auction" phase of unprotected players today.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Can't buy out an injured player. And it's pretty reasonable to assume that the Ducks didn't ask him to waive because he let them know he wasn't going to. There is no incentive for him to risk getting picked by a team that will struggle for a few year when he is already on a contender, in California.

Of course he could be bought out. If he could not be bought out than it would be a ridiculous precedent for the NHL. He played on his injury, did not require surgery, ect. If he is not able to be bought out, than half of the NHL players wouldn't be able to be bought out due to injury following an NHL season. Also, find one report that says that he cant be bought out. If he couldn't be, that would be big news, so you think it would be addressed....

Also, what risk is there? Why in the world would Vegas choose a guy who has negative value?

 

[Gargyn]

What other choice did the Ducks have? If Bieksa wasn't going to waive(and it sounds like he wasn't), then they could either protect Manson and expose Silfverberg/Rakell, or expose Manson. McPhee said before the deadline that no deals with anyone had been worked out.

The cost to keep Vegas away from Manson should be huge. That is a guy that McPhee should be all over.

McPhee is full of crap then. No doubt a trade was made. Anaheim would have just bought Bieksa out. They've said there is no way they would lose Manson. Maybe lose Vatanen because Montour can replace him but even then there is no doubt that he could have just said to McPhee, listen, I'll give you Theodore and a 2nd not to select Manson or Vatanen or if you don't agree, I'll buy out Bieksa, protect Manson and also trade Vatanen for a fair price. Up to you. McPhee either gets Theodore or a good prospect OR he gets to take a guy like Vermette. There were too many options available to Murray for him not to have something set up. No way Manson is claimed. He's kept by Anaheim no doubt in my mind.

 

[Castle8130]

Not trading dumba was stupid. Couldve gotten prospects that are almost nhl ready and already really good.

 

[s7ark]

Of course he could be bought out. If he could not be bought out than it would be a ridiculous precedent for the NHL. He played on his injury, did not require surgery, ect. If he is not able to be bought out, than half of the NHL players wouldn't be able to be bought out due to injury following an NHL season. Also, find one report that says that he cant be bought out. If he couldn't be, that would be big news, so you think it would be addressed....

Also, what risk is there? Why in the world would Vegas choose a guy who has negative value?

McPhee is full of crap then. No doubt a trade was made. Anaheim would have just bought Bieksa out. They've said there is no way they would lose Manson. Maybe lose Vatanen because Montour can replace him but even then there is no doubt that he could have just said to McPhee, listen, I'll give you Theodore and a 2nd not to select Manson or Vatanen or if you don't agree, I'll buy out Bieksa, protect Manson and also trade Vatanen for a fair price. Up to you. McPhee either gets Theodore or a good prospect OR he gets to take a guy like Vermette. There were too many options available to Murray for him not to have something set up. No way Manson is claimed. He's kept by Anaheim no doubt in my mind.

You can't buy out injured players. edit: better link

https://www.silversevensens.com/2015/6/10/8737195/nhl-buyout-rules-refresher-guide

Can anything keep a team from buying a player out?
By all reports, you cannot buy out an injured player without their permission. There is nothing explicitly about this in the buy-out rules in the CBA, but it's something that has been widely reported over the years from multiple, reputable sources, so if there's smoke there is probably fire. It is very likely linked to the waiver requirements.

 

[alexmanu]

Any new on the Nashville/James Neal situation? I'd assume they try and do a trade around Craig Smith+ if possible.

 

[davemess]

I know LVK puts the list in with the NHL on Wednesday morning and we will wont know officially until the Awards show that night.

When do the Teams & more importantly the players get told?

 

[CupInSIX]

6 protection deals?
Anaheim(heh)
Chicago
NYI
CBJ
TB
wonder who the 6th is

how many more deals for guys like Neal, Perron and Methot

 

[CupInSIX]

I know LVK puts the list in with the NHL on Wednesday morning and we will wont know officially until the Awards show that night.

When do the Teams & more importantly the players get told?

ASAP. They want a good showing of players for the NHL awards.

Maybe some guys are in town for the awards and find out in person.

 

[nbducksfan19]

You can't buy out injured players.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...-staal-marian-gaborik-antti-niemi-beauchemin/

Are you kidding? That's what you point to? Really substantiated your claim... so it your your stance that players can simply point to an injury they played on to not be bought out? worked well for Jared cowen.

The spirit of the unwritten rule is that you cannot buy out a player whose injury could prevent him from finding NHL work - That obvioulsy is not the case for Bieksa

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Not trading dumba was stupid. Couldve gotten prospects that are almost nhl ready and already really good.

Then you lose Dumba+Scandella instead of just one of them, and you likely don't get full value for Dumba because the market would be limited to teams that can protect him.

That's the problem with teams that have 2 unprotected players that are both high value. The Wild arguably have 3 with Staal. Teams in that position can't make a trade to leverage against the draft because all they would be doing would be putting themselves in a worse spot.

It tells you something when there were so few trades made prior to the draft.

 

[donkshow]

Where does it sound like this? The voices in your head? Also, the other obvious choice is to Buy Out bieska. A small price to pay to protect Vatanen.

Of course he could be bought out. If he could not be bought out than it would be a ridiculous precedent for the NHL. He played on his injury, did not require surgery, ect. If he is not able to be bought out, than half of the NHL players wouldn't be able to be bought out due to injury following an NHL season. Also, find one report that says that he cant be bought out. If he couldn't be, that would be big news, so you think it would be addressed....

Also, what risk is there? Why in the world would Vegas choose a guy who has negative value?

Are you kidding? That's what you point to? Really substantiated your claim... so it your your stance that players can simply point to an injury they played on to not be bought out? worked well for Jared cowen.

The spirit of the unwritten rule is that you cannot buy out a player whose injury could prevent him from finding NHL work - That obvioulsy is not the case for Bieksa

And I'm the condescending one...

 

[Sojourn]

Why, so then they can let Vatanen get picked? You can only protect so many players. Who do you think they would have protected Manson over if they "only left him unprotected because they have a deal"? Your theory makes zero sense. I just realized you're a Ducks fan, so you're in denial. That's okay.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses, losing one dman in this situation seems to be their prerogative.

And I'm the condescending one...

Yup.

There are actually reports that Anaheim has a deal with Vegas to protect their players.

You call it denial, but Anaheim fans will say it's speculation based on available information.