Post-Game Talk: [EX4] Canucks defeat Oilers | 5-2 (Hughes(2), Kuzmenko, Pettersson, & Di Giuseppe)
- Thread starter Vector
- Start date
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 26,242
- 11,327
Team finally looked like it was getting some continuity as the game went on. Have to give Hughes most of the credit for that.
Strong games
Hughes - is such a good player. Hughes genes are gift to hockey.
Blueger - giving us hope the PK. reading the play very well
Hoglander - closer to being a consistent offensive presence. Much better in his own end.
Boeser - give him kudos for his puck movement and for actually doing some better defensive work in the neutral zone. However, lot of his success resulted from the company he was keeping. Shot still not really there. Remain thinking that if he gets hot you should consider moving him.
Hronek - his puck movement is very good and mostly kept his end tidy. Partners he ended up with were very average and he had to do a lot of the work covering up.
DiGuiseppe - player has improved so much on the player he was last year at training camp. Maybe player that is finally healthy and realizing the potential he showed early in his career. Getting points even thou not on the PP
Mediocre
Kuzmenko - came on in the third as did Pettersson and worked harder defensively., Early going he was not good
Soucy - ended up playing a lot pucks up from deep in his end. Not moving his feet well enough to shorten up his passes. Left gaps between him and the forwards.
Not so Good
Suter - Poor coverage on the second goal against and turned over the puck too much at both blue lines. Has not shown much and IMO been a disappointment. Might be Aman would be better in the 4th line center position.
Cole - thought he was sloppy at times and very poor on the first goal. Probably treating the pre season like a preseason.
Beauvillier - showing very little. Lots of skating and hustle but resulting in nothing. Canucks probably still looking for that other winger for Pettersson.
McWard - started chasing the play and getting spacing screwed up. Some of the penalties were IMO a little cheap but he was putting himself in position to get tham called.
Overall, distribution of playing time seemed better then it was for most of last year.
Strong games
Hughes - is such a good player. Hughes genes are gift to hockey.
Blueger - giving us hope the PK. reading the play very well
Hoglander - closer to being a consistent offensive presence. Much better in his own end.
Boeser - give him kudos for his puck movement and for actually doing some better defensive work in the neutral zone. However, lot of his success resulted from the company he was keeping. Shot still not really there. Remain thinking that if he gets hot you should consider moving him.
Hronek - his puck movement is very good and mostly kept his end tidy. Partners he ended up with were very average and he had to do a lot of the work covering up.
DiGuiseppe - player has improved so much on the player he was last year at training camp. Maybe player that is finally healthy and realizing the potential he showed early in his career. Getting points even thou not on the PP
Mediocre
Kuzmenko - came on in the third as did Pettersson and worked harder defensively., Early going he was not good
Soucy - ended up playing a lot pucks up from deep in his end. Not moving his feet well enough to shorten up his passes. Left gaps between him and the forwards.
Not so Good
Suter - Poor coverage on the second goal against and turned over the puck too much at both blue lines. Has not shown much and IMO been a disappointment. Might be Aman would be better in the 4th line center position.
Cole - thought he was sloppy at times and very poor on the first goal. Probably treating the pre season like a preseason.
Beauvillier - showing very little. Lots of skating and hustle but resulting in nothing. Canucks probably still looking for that other winger for Pettersson.
McWard - started chasing the play and getting spacing screwed up. Some of the penalties were IMO a little cheap but he was putting himself in position to get tham called.
Overall, distribution of playing time seemed better then it was for most of last year.
Angry Little Elf
My wife came back
Hronek takes the pressure off Hughes. Having him back there really balances our d corps.
Not a pleasant problem. Another year of hope for the best. The big hope is Captain Hughes. The one guy that carry the team on his shoulders.
Great decision there.
Shareefruck
Registered User
The thing is, I don't think exposing Aman to tougher minutes and MORE minutes would bring you much closer to solving that puzzle. He hasn't looked good in those conditions either. I think we're pretty equally screwed on that front in both scenarios (Boeser/Kuzmenko getting shutdown minutes actually scares me less, because at least they'd manage some offensive possession time).I think the bolded is a big part of where we're not seeing eye to eye on this.
Hoglander has looked like crap through the preseason. Like, "what are we going to do with this player???" Tonight was the first he's looked...kind of alright and on task. And again, it was playing mostly with guys like Suter and Garland.
I'm also kind of lost on this idea that Suter and Garland's "offensive styles" are somehow not compatible. What exactly do you think Suter's "offensive style" is? Because to me...it's "coattail rider extraordinaire". Which is an absolutely perfect fit for Garland's whole, "i can be productive, but only with bad linemates down the lineup somewhere". Garland is actually quite underrated at driving play...and i do think we agree on that at least. But he's looked like he fits just fine with Suter the last two preseason games...whether it's Hoglander or Beauvillier on the opposite side.
So you work the problem...
Beauvillier and Hoglander both look alright there. But Hoglander looks like straight manure with Petey-Kuz. Beauvillier works there.
We've seen zero indication that Hoglander would be at all useful beside Bluegers. Maybe playing with Garland opposite helps...but you still have Hoglander on a line that is going to be your "third option" for matchups...behind a JT-Boeser duo where Brock completely nukes any matchup utility for the group. That gives you just 3 lines who you're trying to match against the opponent and none of them are any good at it.
It's a stupid puzzle with missing pieces and bits of other puzzles that don't even belong, but that doesn't mean you should just give up on trying to at least put it together in a way that overall...looks most like a deliberate effort as a whole enterprise. Making the most of the pieces you do have and trying to minimize the pieces that don't belong by putting them somewhere they might not stand out completely negatively.
I think Suter's offensive style is an east-west coattail rider rather than a north-south coattail rider (which offensively, is what I'd say Blueger might be, and is how he managed to hover around 30 points in previous seasons), and I think Garland is a north-south, direct attack play-driver. Suter's not the type of offensive player to specialize in picking up garbage points off of crash-the-net-plays, from what I've seen, so that's why I don't think it fits. I see Suter's offensive game as being a better fit with the top two lines than the third (which may disqualify him from being useful on the team, for me). For a non-top-sixer, he's somewhat decent at finding soft areas and making tiny plays, but neither Garland nor Hoglander are able to get the puck to soft areas or make plays with him.
I see it as similar to how Booth (or I don't know, Richardson) would be a better fit on a line that Kesler is driving than Wellwood would be (admittedly not the best example-- let's just ignore Wellwood's ability to drive the play himself.).
As for Hoglander, I mostly just didn't like his decision-making in an east-west "must be a threat to score" Pettersson/Kuzmenko line during preseason (I agree that he was putrid in that regard, and the worst possible complement). I didn't think he was that awful away from the puck, forechecking, or trying to gain the zone (I actually think he's been pretty good at the latter). He's in a similar boat to Garland so far this preseason, for me (albeit obviously not as good). On a line that would be mainly about pressuring, causing disruption, gaining the offensive zone, and battling along the boards to throw as many pucks at the net as possible and hopefully chipping in secondary offense that way, I think he might do okay based on his preseason efforts.
Last edited:
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
- 26,279
- 16,259
Was anonymous..I hardly heard his name until he got high sticked late in the game.
Bojack Horvatman
IAMGROOT
- Jun 15, 2016
- 4,323
- 7,723
We are all nature. Compete is in our things. We do Canucks
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 26,242
- 11,327
We are building a better Granlund. We have the technology.But really...i think that's a pretty perfect description for what Suter is. In true Granlund fashion...he's just nebulously floating somewhere vaguely near the midpoint between Current Mikael and Peak Markus.
I didn't love the signing, and certainly got tangled up in plenty of arguments about what he was at the time, with people getting super carried away with it. But i see why they made the signing. Really, we're paying Suter $1.6M. Which is effectively 4th line money. He's a versatile enough player to flit around the lineup over the course of the season, including the Top-6, post a handful of points, and mostly not do anything too remarkably positive or negative. And potentially give some of our surplus "scoring wingers who aren't good enough for the Top-6" a Center to work with in between.
Yeah. There's just no reason to put all your eggs in one basket with Hughes and Hronek. They each need to be the anchor of their own pairing. There isn't anything resembling the depth to do anything else, when we're already struggling just to find partners for the two of them to carry. Much less somebody to carry a 2nd pairing if neither of them is on it.
The Soucy thing with Hughes is just weird at this point. Like...there must've been something behind the scenes with Foote or something, where they just weren't comfortable with it for some reason? It's bizarre how reluctant them seem to even just try it. In preseason...when it doesn't even matter.
That's just Beauvillier. He's the clear "passenger" on that line. The line itself wasn't really firing hard to begin with tonight. So obviously the passenger is going to completely disappear if the bus ain't driving. But we know that he's at least serviceable there. He doesn't actively get in the way of what Petey-Kuz are doing. He just sort of exists and facilitates here and there. Not what you want there ideally...but better than a guy like Hoglander who actively gets in the way and disrupts them.
Eventually Mikheyev will be back and i'd expect that's his spot. We really just need two Mikheyev's though. One for each of Pete and JTs lines. Currently don't have fully one.
Agree with most of those thoughts, but these two in particular did have me thinking about something, in the context of other conversations.
Made me start wondering...what happens if you push Suter up to that top line, until Mikheyev is back? Slot Aman in at 4C. It basically boots Hoglander which would be rude and confusing messaging, after his first decent showing of the preseason. But Suter is a guy who has basically made his career playing up the lineup riding the coattails of Top-6 players, even superstars like Patty Kane specifically.
Kuzmenko-Pettersson-Suter
PDG-Miller-Boeser
Beauvillier-Bluegers-Studnicka
Joshua-Aman-Garland
And then i looked at it and i hate it. But there's not much that you can do with this that i don't dislike in some fashion. Especially not until Mikheyev is back. Just a messy roster. They've somewhat plugged a few of the biggest holes that were just sinking the ship completely. But they're very temporary patches on much bigger problems. Especially on the blueline...which is still asking the same question as forever..."who plays with Hughes?"
I heard those are expensive.
Shareefruck
Registered User
I kind of want to see a Brisebois - Hughes pairing, to be honest. As well as a Soucey - Hirose pairing.
Brookbank
Registered User
- Nov 15, 2022
- 1,756
- 1,686
Beauvillier is streaky. He has the athleticism. I don't think it fair to call him a passenger. Maybe when he has a bad game but thats it. Im not worried about him
We can get him on a discount if we want to!
Yeah it’s contract years, I expect him to go balls out when the season starts.
SelltheTeamFrancesco
Registered User
- Aug 11, 2015
- 3,952
- 4,045
Went to check Petey face-off percentage because he was really good against the Oilers last game. He only took 5 face-offs I know it's preseason but thought that was interesting. Miller took 18, Suter 14, Blueger 9, and Studnicka took 4. All hovered around 50%, going to be interesting watching Suters face-off number in his remaining games because he has taken 33 thru two games. So, I would think they have him locked into one of the two bottom centers spots with Blueger.
HairyKneel
Registered User
- Jun 5, 2023
- 1,148
- 1,036
Brisebois is a #6 guy in the AHL and you want him to play with our best D on his offside. That’s awesome.
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 26,242
- 11,327
Yeah. I think i just really don't agree with almost the majority of how you're viewing these players in question, and their chemistry (or potential chemistry). I also again defer to...the fact that Garland and Suter have in fact looked, alright together to me these past two games. Also had Hoglander playing far more of simplified "around the net" game. Which was a major positive of tonight.
Garland's strength is in that he's actually able to carry the puck and create plays effectively from the wing. It's largely focused around getting to the net, but he's the guy who is actually able to gain the zone, curl up and find a seam to make that happen. He's good at the thing that Hoglander gets himself into deep deep trouble thinking he can be. Like many good offensive players, he's got a little bit of each compass direction in the way he can attack. But to me, Garland's ability to generate offense from the wing is largely about his ability to move the puck east-west from the boards (be that the wing or down low) to the net area. He's very direct about it, but nonetheless...he's far from a North-South head down simple game. He's a desperately underrated passer. I think that makes him plenty well-suited to mesh with Suter...
Where Suter...i don't think he's got any particular offensive style at all. He just goes with the flow. Like you said, he's got a decent feel for finding soft areas and making little "facilitator" passes. That's what he's good at, and that's pretty much all he's good at. But that's what makes him adaptable and flexible to plug in and play higher up the lineup than you'd like if you have a deep healthy roster. He's able to read somewhat reasonably off of better, more creative players and just...facilitate. He's a "conduit" player. Just exists in between one linemate and the other. Which is why it could potentially fit with...
Hoglander...is basically only an effective player when he barely has the puck on his stick at all. Just buzzing around, use his darting quickness and shiftiness to clean up around the general net area. When he fancies himself a Garland...yes, he can cross the blueline with the puck...but i can't count high enough to tally the number of instances where he's done so only to buttonhook himself into a box, turn the puck over...and not actually effectively gain the zone entry. Especially if you add in all the times he gets a pass inside the zone from a linemate, and does the exact same thing to just completely kill the offensive flow and create a turnover in a very dangerous part of the ice.
I just think it makes sense to explore something like that, which could make three misfits simultaneously "better" together. Where Bluegers...that simple North-South game, i think we've seen already...can basically exist at a similar level, even if his linemates are not particularly skilled playmakers or offensive players in general. It becomes more a mission of getting the puck to the other end and keeping it there. Scoring optional...when they essentially just mash it into the net by grinding away. He's more...that kind of player to me.
Garland might be an intriguing fit with him because of the way he can actually take a second to create more of a play...while still both liking to muck it up around the net. But i don't know that you're actually going to get much of any more productivity out of either of them for it. Marginal relative gains. Whereas Suter without someone like Garland...well...he's not going to do anything. Massive net deficit in play driving and the resultant production.
So on the average...take the option that significantly boosts the weaker Center (Suter) results, with marginal consequence to the stronger Center (Bluegers) results. Seems like easy math to me.
From what I saw last year, he was great next to Petey, complimented each other great. Then wasnt really doing much when placed on any other line
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 26,242
- 11,327
But why?
The time for screwing around with pairings that aren't serious was back when they sent that ECHL roster out to get murdered. They don't really have time to mess around with Hughes anymore. Find him a partner. Now.
Brisebois has become enough of a player to handle depth #7 sort of minutes. But plugging him on his off side on the top pairing is a complete waste of time. He's not that guy.
Same with randomly forcing two other Lefty's in Soucey - Hirose together. Even if that worked...where does that leave the rest of the defence pairings? Myers plays with Hughes? No thanks. Myers in the press box? lmao that's ridiculous and definitely not happening.
So what is the endgame to tinkering with throwing pairings at the wall like it's a month before camp even opens?
Despite Hughes rising above tonight against 1/4 of an Oilers team at best...this team absolutely cannot afford to be fumbling and futzing around trying to figure out who is going to play with our best defenceman when the season opens very soon.
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 26,242
- 11,327
I'm not really "worried" about Beauvillier. He is what he is. Streaky Top-9 filler Winger. He's got good offensive instincts and awareness that go back to being a bigtime scorer in Jrs. He's just not skilled enough, consistent enough, and doesn't have enough tools to be an actual play-driver at the NHL level. And that's fine.
He's a better facilitator on that top line than most they've tried there. That's enough to be useful. I don't think it's fair to expect anything more from him in that role.
But it also definitely makes him a "passenger".
Ozone
Registered User
- Jan 19, 2013
- 15,102
- 5,200
BTW, Phil D jumping in the middle to help Miller, and how he puts his heart into every shift, puts him on my opening day roster - if I made a roster.
I would also make a 'punch Kane for fun' roster..
Anywho, enjoyed the second half of the game.
He knows the role he needs to play, and I trust him with that.
I would also make a 'punch Kane for fun' roster..
Anywho, enjoyed the second half of the game.
He knows the role he needs to play, and I trust him with that.
Last edited:
me2
Go ahead foot
I have to agree, at this rate we will get Hughes-Myers by default. Hughes-Soucy and Hughes-Cole are the only other options. Hughes-Hronek would make the other pairings a mess
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
BET ON ONLY ONE HORSE WATCH LIVE - Pennine Ridge Stakes (Gr. 2) - BELMONT (AQUEDUCT) RACE 7 - Queens, NYWagers: 3Staked: $565.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
Game 2 Edmonton Oilers @ Dallas Stars - Edmonton Oilers leads series 1-0Wagers: 7Staked: $5,629.00Event closes- Updated: