Erik Karlsson vs Drew Doughty (All time)

[wetcoast]

In the one season that Karlsson played for a good Sharks team, he was absolutely dominant in the two thirds of the season that he played and the team made the conference finals despite him playing through major injury.

Sure he was but he played like crap in the first 1/3rd of the season. Maybe it was chemistry problems with Vlasic but it got embarrassing on these boards with people calling Vlasic a non NHL caliber Dman at the time.

Vlasic had a rough start to be sure but too many were giving Karlsson a free pass when we all had seen poor stretches from him before.

The Sharks team that Karlsson played on this year was worse than any of the Ottawa teams that he ever played for.

Sure the situation in San Jose went sideways this year but it was also unexpected how bad they were and part of it was the play of Karlsson who once again was a high event player, when he was on the ice a lot of goals were scored unfortunately more often by the opposing team.

I'm not saying it was all Karlsson's fault as a lot of players simply had bad seasons but the team performance was unexpected if you look back at Karlsson threads from the past most everyone expected the sens to be bad, even if some Ottawa fans embarrassingly downplayed other Sens players and everything Karlsson did was gold, which wasn't true.

 

[Agent Zub]

Until he didn't.

He had Spezza earlier in his career, and It's not like everyone on Ottawa were trash. But one more elite piece would have helped them for sure.

yea i mean just having spezza that one year was incredible.

its a shame thats the only elite player karlsson ever played with in his prime.

 

[Agent Zub]

at the end of the day, karlsson at his best you could make an argument as the best player in the league.

Doughty was never at that level. top 10?, sure. but no one was going to confuse drew doughty as the best hockey player in the world.

 

[Voight]

I'm just saying some of the worst LA teams Doughty had were better than some of the best Senators teams Karlsson had.

I mean Doughty had Kopitar and Jeff Carter all decade while Karlsson had Turris and Melnyk.

The first year Karlsson won the Norris he had 84 point Spezza along with Michalek scoring 60, Alfie 59. So lets not pretend like he was playing on the 2020 Red Wings or the 2016 Leafs.

 

[rent free]

The first year Karlsson won the Norris he had 84 point Spezza along with Michalek scoring 60, Alfie 59. So lets not pretend like he was playing on the 2020 Red Wings or the 2016 Leafs.

a better comparison would be the 2017 avalanche.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

at the end of the day karlsson at his best you could make an argument as the best player in the league.

Doughty was never at that level. top 10?, sure. but no one was going to confuse him as the best hockey player in the world.

In 2014 at least, absolutely had a case for best player in the world. Led Canada in scoring. Won Olympic Gold. Won Stanley Cup, had a strong Conn Smythe case, scored highlight reel finals goals, end to end in the WCF of the decade, lockdown defense all year.

Again, people only don't want to see this when they willfully don't want to see it. Never at that level? Have to vociferously dissagree.

I'm just saying some of the worst LA teams Doughty had were better than some of the best Senators teams Karlsson had.

I mean Doughty had Kopitar and Jeff Carter all decade while Karlsson had Turris and Melnyk.

And Stone? Hoffman?

Those Sens teams that EK was leading weren't the 2012 and 2014 Kings but how many threads did we have lauding each of those players individually? Stone is awesome. Turris was peaking. Hoffman and Karlsson had insane chemistry. I mean there wasn't much depth behind them but the top-end of the Sens just worked so well.

And you can absolutely only control what happens with your team when you're on the ice but for how much people point out how EK dragged up a rough Sens squad, a championship team was that much better with Drew Doughty ON the ice...that's why I just don't get the 'passenger' argument. There was a point where the Kings with DD were over 60% CF with Drew on the ice and under 50 without. People want to pretend he was just a cog in the wheel. The fact is they were both incredible and just in such different situations.

I think the other problem is people haven't really seen the Kings without Doughty since he's been so durable, literally only missing a handful of games. I'd reference G2 of the VGK series when Doughty was suspended...our top pairing was Fantenberg and Martinez. They got crushed. That is exactly what people reference with the EK Sens. Fantenberg was something like 25% CF, Martinez 33ish...Doughty was over 50 for the series. One even strength goal against vs. the hottest line in the league. Like what else does this guy need to do? He only gets respect if he puts up over 70 points?

Both guys and Keith were easily top-3 for a long time and I'll just never understand why people want to drag DD and EK down so hard. It's funny because while they got quantified results a bit differently (EK leaned heavily offense, DD leaned heavily defense), their highlight reels look eerily similar, both are excellent in transition, both have IQ beyond reproach. The biggest problem with Drew's career is he didn't put up gaudy point totals in an East Coast or Canadian market. And this weird venn diagram of a hate parade that crosses some sens fans/swedes/tbl fans.

 

[jetsforever]

I'd say Karlsson is the better player but Doughty might have a better career with his Cups.

 

[SimpleJack]

Wow

just wow

This isn’t close

But not in the way the pole results reflect....hence why I’m shocked....

Did I actually read someone say that “at one point Karlsson could have been considered the best player in the entire NHL”. ....LOL!

Karlsson’s putrid play in his own end has been well documented. And he’s never done a damn thing in the playoffs. At least nothing close to Doughty. And it’s not like Doughty didn’t put up points and score goals either.

What a joke.

 

[wintersej]

yea i mean they almost made it to the finals, with the sharks and karlsson badly banged up. whats your point?

Doughty on the other hand has been a real flop as soon as the team around him started sucking. Karlsson at least made his shitty teams competive

Honestly, I think Doughty might not have the best attitude. I think his sucking on a bad team has been more of a mental than physical thing.

 

[wintersej]

I don’t think we have seen the last of either of these two as elite players.

 

[bert]

Karlsson had a 82 point top 5 scoring finish(very low gpg)which is bananas and yes hes probably one of the worst defenders the game has ever seen but it's still far more impressive then that freebie underserved Norris doughty got. hes probably going to the hall one day but he did not deserve that norris, he deserved to have his teeth fixed more then anything

One of the worst defenders the game has ever seen. Good grief.

 

[topshelf15]

Best OFD vrs best two way defender,this poll is so dumb ...They are both such different players,but both were at the very top of their style of play....You really couldnt go wrong with either one

 

[Voight]

a better comparison would be the 2017 avalanche.

I was going to put them, but they actually had talented players on their team - MackInnon, Barrie, Duchene, Landeskog etc. They just all underperformed.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think there are a few components here.

I think Karlsson had the higher peak. I think Doughty had a more consistent career. I don't think winning Cups is insignificant towards assessing these players.

I'd give the slight edge to Doughty because of the winning.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Doughty, easily.

- He's won 2 x cups vs. zero for Karlsson
- 1 Norris vs. 2 for Karlsson
- 4 golds and a silver internationally vs. 2 silvers and 1 bronze for Karlsson
- They BOTH played on crap teams, but Doughty elevated his team to win. Karlsson never did.

Plus Doughty can actually play defence.

 

[JackSlater]

Karlsson, unfortunate about the injuries though.

 

[Raspewtin]

karlsson not close

doesn't help that doughty has been fried garbage the last three years

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Do Cups not matter in this voting? Shouldnt be close if so.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Sure he was but he played like crap in the first 1/3rd of the season. Maybe it was chemistry problems with Vlasic but it got embarrassing on these boards with people calling Vlasic a non NHL caliber Dman at the time.

Vlasic had a rough start to be sure but too many were giving Karlsson a free pass when we all had seen poor stretches from him before.



Sure the situation in San Jose went sideways this year but it was also unexpected how bad they were and part of it was the play of Karlsson who once again was a high event player, when he was on the ice a lot of goals were scored unfortunately more often by the opposing team.

I'm not saying it was all Karlsson's fault as a lot of players simply had bad seasons but the team performance was unexpected if you look back at Karlsson threads from the past most everyone expected the sens to be bad, even if some Ottawa fans embarrassingly downplayed other Sens players and everything Karlsson did was gold, which wasn't true.

Karlsson didn’t play like crap in the first half of the season, he had poor on-ice shooting and save percentages and he was playing with a terrible partner. People who actually watched the team or even those who looked at the stats and didn’t just go off of head say were rightfully calling Vlasic out at the time for his atrocious play and there was nothing embarrassing about that. Fast forward, it’s now been 2 years of Karlsson on the Sharks and Vlasic has been below replacement level in both of them, while Karlsson has been very good in the games he’s played.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Doughty, easily.

- He's won 2 x cups vs. zero for Karlsson
- 1 Norris vs. 2 for Karlsson
- 4 golds and a silver internationally vs. 2 silvers and 1 bronze for Karlsson
- They BOTH played on crap teams, but Doughty elevated his team to win. Karlsson never did.

Plus Doughty can actually play defence.

doughty didnt even deserve the norris he did win

 

[VoluntaryDom]

In the one season that Karlsson played for a good Sharks team, he was absolutely dominant in the two thirds of the season that he played and the team made the conference finals despite him playing through major injury.

The Sharks team that Karlsson played on this year was worse than any of the Ottawa teams that he ever played for.

nah man you cant say that, that ruins their narrative

 

[wetcoast]

Karlsson didn’t play like crap in the first half of the season, he had poor on-ice shooting and save percentages and he was playing with a terrible partner. People who actually watched the team or even those who looked at the stats and didn’t just go off of head say were rightfully calling Vlasic out at the time for his atrocious play and there was nothing embarrassing about that. Fast forward, it’s now been 2 years of Karlsson on the Sharks and Vlasic has been below replacement level in both of them, while Karlsson has been very good in the games he’s played.

This seems to be a common narrative about Karlsson is that his results are always someone else fault throughout his career yet we have the eye test that shows all too often that he quits or makes poor judgments that allow in the opposition scoring against his team.

It's comical that a below replacement player Vlasic played 23:33 for a team that went to the conference finals and didn't look out of place.

But I'm sure there are some advanced stats to prove that Vlasic is the San Jose scapegoat right?

The fact of the matter is that for years we have all been told how much better Karlsson would look when he joined a "real NHL team" and not much has changed.

Sure part of that is due to injuries but EK also seems to have a ton of lapses that directly result in GA.

This is further compounded in this thread when last season Daughty actually played really well and Jonathan Quick made Jones look good.

This year sure Doughty has had his worst year but let's not pretend that if Karlsson was in LA we would all look very closely at the rest of the Kings defense and see that the supporting cast hasn't actually been very helpfull either.

That being said Doughty has had his worst performance this year to be sure.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

This seems to be a common narrative about Karlsson is that his results are always someone else fault throughout his career yet we have the eye test that shows all too often that he quits or makes poor judgments that allow in the opposition scoring against his team.

It's comical that a below replacement player Vlasic played 23:33 for a team that went to the conference finals and didn't look out of place.

But I'm sure there are some advanced stats to prove that Vlasic is the San Jose scapegoat right?

The fact of the matter is that for years we have all been told how much better Karlsson would look when he joined a "real NHL team" and not much has changed.

Sure part of that is due to injuries but EK also seems to have a ton of lapses that directly result in GA.

This is further compounded in this thread when last season Daughty actually played really well and Jonathan Quick made Jones look good.

This year sure Doughty has had his worst year but let's not pretend that if Karlsson was in LA we would all look very closely at the rest of the Kings defense and see that the supporting cast hasn't actually been very helpfull either.

That being said Doughty has had his worst performance this year to be sure.

I’ve watched every game Karlsson has played in San Jose. Your eye test is bunk.

Vlasic turned back the clock in the playoffs and was excellent for the 18 games he played. That makes it even more confusing, and disappointing, that he has bookended that playoff performance with below replacement level performances in both of the regular seasons, but that’s where we’re at here.

Lol at Doughty playing well. Hopefully that wasn’t a typo and you were talking about some other guy named Daughty in another league or something, because Drew Doughty did not play well last season.

 

[WSS11]

Present day Karlsson vs Doughty may be a better poll

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Karlsson is much better. Doughty is closer to being the 3rd best defenseman in the draft class than the best in my opinion