Erik Karlsson, Victor Hedman, Nicklas Lidström after 10 seasons

[alko]

Nicklas Lidström
1x Norris
3x second in Norris voting
2x Stanley Cup
121 + 375 = 496 points

Victor Hedman
1x Norris
2x third in Norris voting
94 + 324 = 418 points
0 Stanley Cups

Erik Karlsson
2x Norris
2x second in Norris voting
129 + 434 = 563 points
0 Stanley Cups

Rasmus Dahlin
Lets look back after 2027/2028 season

Will someone dethrone Lidström?

Click to read more...

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

It’s very unlikely. Lidstrom got more dominant into his 30’s, while players usually decline.

It’s a shame Karlsson ran into two pretty big injuries. He already has two Norris’, could have two more and has spent 3+ seasons looking pretty off and recovering

 

[CartographerNo611]

It’s very unlikely. Lidstrom got more dominant into his 30’s, while players usually decline.

It’s a shame Karlsson ran into two pretty big injuries. He already has two Norris’, could have two more and has spent 3+ seasons looking pretty off and recovering

Lidstrom was really starting to get exposed in his last 2 years and his last Norris was as a huge gift considering there were many better d-men playing that year.

If Hedman remains healthy and consistent I think he could atleast get a couple more Norris trophies under his belt. Ek has not looked Norris worthy for a couple of years now due to lingering injuries.

 

[KnockHobbler]

Ek is past contending for Norris' due to injuries and Hedman's not as elite as Lidstrom.
If Karlsson had stayed healthy he'd have been a good bet, but he's not the same player he used to be

 

[joe dirte]

Neither are really anywhere remotely close to as good. Hedman is solid 2 way, but not quite as good on either end. Karlsson has similar production, but his defensive game isn't in the same stratosphere.

Lidstrom was elite on both ends. Hedman is elite, but not quite on the same level at either end. He would have to drastically improve over the next decade to eclipse Lidstrom.

Karlsson would have to completely change his game, so it's not possible for him.

 

[ricky0034]

you know that thing with Karlsson where people always harp on his play in his own zone and yeah he's an offense first guy but he's so good at moving the puck out of it at his best that it honestly doesn't matter and he transforms elite offensive play into good defensive effectiveness as well?

Lidstrom was the inverse of that a defense first guy that was so good with his positioning that he transformed it into good offensive effectiveness as well

and he did it for nearly two decades in a row while missing almost no games

 

[JoVel]

Now show us Lidström's following 10 seasons...

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I love Karlsson, and he's still a great guy to have on my team. But I don't think either of these 2 will have the success of Lidstrom. Unless one of them goes beast mode in their 30s.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Never bet against EK.

Unless he suffers another major injury he will dethrone Lidstrom, maybe not in terms of Norris wins but in impact on his team. Lidstrom played on a dynasty too.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I love Lidstrom, but I'm gonna state the obvious here.

When Lidstrom was in his 30s, his competition for NHL Dmen was really weak.

When he was younger, he lost to Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis, Leetch, Chelios, Blake.

But as he got older his only peers for nearly an entire decade were Pronger and Niedermayer (who's play declined WAY earlier than his). And even Niedermayer wasn't effective for half the decade, as his primary skill of skating was stifled behind the New Jersey Trap/DPE , and was only unleashed after the 06 lockout when he was already 32.

Neither of their games really aged as well as Lidstroms.

Suter/Weber/Chara/Keith/Doughty were still new and just starting to come into their own, and hadn't really firmly entrenched their dominance.

For 11 years, Lidstrom was pencilled in as a Norris Finalist before the season even started.


Here are who Lidstrom was a finalist against by year:

2011 - Weber (nearly won it by a single vote) and Chara
2010 2009 - Did not win, but the winners and finalists were Chara + a 26 year old Keith, with Mike Green being a finalist twice.
2008 - Pfaneuf (lmfao) + Chara
2007 - Niedermayer + Pronger (they had their votes split as they both played for Anaheim)
2006 - Niedermayer + Zubov
2005 - Lockout
2004 - Niedermayer won
2003 - 39 year old Al MacInnis + Derian Hatcher (lul)
2002 - 40 year old Chelios who was also his team mate (lmfao) + Blake
2001 - 40 Year old Bourque + Scott Stevens





Lidstrom had such low levels of competition for that trophy for a VERY large window. A bunch of 40 year olds for the first half, and Chara+Green for the last bit.

 

[Sensinitis]

Ek is past contending for Norris' due to injuries and Hedman's not as elite as Lidstrom.
If Karlsson had stayed healthy he'd have been a good bet, but he's not the same player he used to be

You don’t think EK will win another Norris? that’s bold.

 

[SourTemplePilot]

No one will EVER dethrone Lidstrom. A lot a valid points brought up so far, but I don’t think it will happen, imo.

 

[dtown77]

I love Lidstrom, but I'm gonna state the obvious here.

When Lidstrom was in his 30s, his competition for NHL Dmen was really weak.

When he was younger, he lost to Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis, Leetch, Chelios, Blake.

But as he got older his only peers for nearly an entire decade were Pronger and Niedermayer (who's play declined WAY earlier than his). And even Niedermayer wasn't effective for half the decade, as his primary skill of skating was stifled behind the New Jersey Trap/DPE , and was only unleashed after the 06 lockout when he was already 32.

Neither of their games really aged as well as Lidstroms.

Suter/Weber/Chara/Keith/Doughty were still new and just starting to come into their own, and hadn't really firmly entrenched their dominance.

For 11 years, Lidstrom was pencilled in as a Norris Finalist before the season even started.


Here are who Lidstrom was a finalist against by year:

2011 - Weber (nearly won it by a single vote) and Chara
2010 2009 - Did not win, but the winners and finalists were Chara + a 26 year old Keith, with Mike Green being a finalist twice.
2008 - Pfaneuf (lmfao) + Chara
2007 - Niedermayer + Pronger (they had their votes split as they both played for Anaheim)
2006 - Niedermayer + Zubov
2005 - Lockout
2004 - Niedermayer won
2003 - 39 year old Al MacInnis + Derian Hatcher (lul)
2002 - 40 year old Chelios who was also his team mate (lmfao) + Blake
2001 - 40 Year old Bourque + Scott Stevens





Lidstrom had such low levels of competition for that trophy for a VERY large window. A bunch of 40 year olds for the first half, and Chara+Green for the last bit.

So Lidstrom isn't as good as people think?

 

[CartographerNo611]

you know that thing with Karlsson where people always harp on his play in his own zone and yeah he's an offense first guy but he's so good at moving the puck out of it at his best that it honestly doesn't matter and he transforms elite offensive play into good defensive effectiveness as well?

I watched most Shark playoff games, while I know he was battling injuries, he was garbage at getting the puck out of his own zone. Either straight up turned it over trying to force a pretty pass or missed the pass all together. His lack of hustle getting back to his own zone was glaring. Again, hip injury, but he was far from even average in his own zone. He was okay in the offensive zone but again, was trying to force the pretty play that worked out half the time which still garnered him a lot of points.

If anything Burns gets an unfair amount criticism for his own zone play, he had an amazing stick and was head over shoulders the Sharks best d-man.

Agree with you completely on Lidstrom.

 

[SotasicA]

I love Lidstrom, but I'm gonna state the obvious here.

When Lidstrom was in his 30s, his competition for NHL Dmen was really weak.

When he was younger, he lost to Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis, Leetch, Chelios, Blake.

But as he got older his only peers for nearly an entire decade were Pronger and Niedermayer (who's play declined WAY earlier than his). And even Niedermayer wasn't effective for half the decade, as his primary skill of skating was stifled behind the New Jersey Trap/DPE , and was only unleashed after the 06 lockout when he was already 32.

Neither of their games really aged as well as Lidstroms.

Suter/Weber/Chara/Keith/Doughty were still new and just starting to come into their own, and hadn't really firmly entrenched their dominance.

For 11 years, Lidstrom was pencilled in as a Norris Finalist before the season even started.


Here are who Lidstrom was a finalist against by year:

2011 - Weber (nearly won it by a single vote) and Chara
2010 2009 - Did not win, but the winners and finalists were Chara + a 26 year old Keith, with Mike Green being a finalist twice.
2008 - Pfaneuf (lmfao) + Chara
2007 - Niedermayer + Pronger (they had their votes split as they both played for Anaheim)
2006 - Niedermayer + Zubov
2005 - Lockout
2004 - Niedermayer won
2003 - 39 year old Al MacInnis + Derian Hatcher (lul)
2002 - 40 year old Chelios who was also his team mate (lmfao) + Blake
2001 - 40 Year old Bourque + Scott Stevens





Lidstrom had such low levels of competition for that trophy for a VERY large window. A bunch of 40 year olds for the first half, and Chara+Green for the last bit.

Good post. Lidstrom was definitely overrated and in his later years voters also basically gifted him Norrises for past merits and team success.

In his earlier years he was outplayed by many, and in his later years he was the voters' pet.

 

[Claypool]

I love Lidstrom, but I'm gonna state the obvious here.

When Lidstrom was in his 30s, his competition for NHL Dmen was really weak.

When he was younger, he lost to Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis, Leetch, Chelios, Blake.

But as he got older his only peers for nearly an entire decade were Pronger and Niedermayer (who's play declined WAY earlier than his). And even Niedermayer wasn't effective for half the decade, as his primary skill of skating was stifled behind the New Jersey Trap/DPE , and was only unleashed after the 06 lockout when he was already 32.

Neither of their games really aged as well as Lidstroms.

Suter/Weber/Chara/Keith/Doughty were still new and just starting to come into their own, and hadn't really firmly entrenched their dominance.

For 11 years, Lidstrom was pencilled in as a Norris Finalist before the season even started.


Here are who Lidstrom was a finalist against by year:

2011 - Weber (nearly won it by a single vote) and Chara
2010 2009 - Did not win, but the winners and finalists were Chara + a 26 year old Keith, with Mike Green being a finalist twice.
2008 - Pfaneuf (lmfao) + Chara
2007 - Niedermayer + Pronger (they had their votes split as they both played for Anaheim)
2006 - Niedermayer + Zubov
2005 - Lockout
2004 - Niedermayer won
2003 - 39 year old Al MacInnis + Derian Hatcher (lul)
2002 - 40 year old Chelios who was also his team mate (lmfao) + Blake
2001 - 40 Year old Bourque + Scott Stevens





Lidstrom had such low levels of competition for that trophy for a VERY large window. A bunch of 40 year olds for the first half, and Chara+Green for the last bit.

When you’re so good you make the rest of the field look average, you mean.

 

[bobholly39]

Dahlin could. Sky's the limit for him. But neither Hedman nor Karlsson will. To have had a chance they'd have had to be waaay ahead of Lidstrom by age 30 considering how good Lidstrom's back half is. As it is they're barely pacing him - so no chance they surpass him all time.

Don't know yet that Dahlin will be that high caliber a player - but if he is he has a better shot than the other 2. They missed their chance

 

[Perfect_Drug]

No one will EVER dethrone Lidstrom. A lot a valid points brought up so far, but I don’t think it will happen, imo.

When you’re so good you make the rest of the field look average, you mean.

So Lidstrom isn't as good as people think?

I love Lidstrom. All Time great, I'd even rate him 3rd All-Time.
But for nearly a decade, he was the best Dman in a field of pretty mediocre Dmen.

I mean, look at some of the finalists he won over:
Pfaneuf, Hatcher, Green, 40 year old Bourque, and 40 year old Chelios.

These are guys that came 2nd to him!

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nobody is dethroning Lidstrom. He is one of the best defensemen ever, and the current group of defensemen is historically weak.

Honestly, the Norris is such a stupid way to determine anything. I don't know if it has ever actually gone to the best defenseman in any particular season. It has become mainly a "who has the reputation and gets the most points as a defenseman" award, and finalists reflect that. Pronger and Neidermeyer were better defensemen than any in the league today, so discounting them as competitors is pretty ridiculous. Chara was also an absolute beast back then, and there were a lot of younger guys having great starts to their careers. Lidstrom also got better as he got older, which is rare. And while he piled up the points, his defense was his main asset, which is extremely rare in guys who put up massive points.

 

[joe dirte]

you know that thing with Karlsson where people always harp on his play in his own zone and yeah he's an offense first guy but he's so good at moving the puck out of it at his best that it honestly doesn't matter and he transforms elite offensive play into good defensive effectiveness as well?

Lidstrom was the inverse of that a defense first guy that was so good with his positioning that he transformed it into good offensive effectiveness as well

and he did it for nearly two decades in a row while missing almost no games

Back that up with numbers though. I bet you cant.

 

[joe dirte]

I love Lidstrom. All Time great, I'd even rate him 3rd All-Time.
But for nearly a decade, he was the best Dman in a field of pretty mediocre Dmen.

I mean, look at some of the finalists he won over:
Pfaneuf, Hatcher, Green, 40 year old Bourque, and 40 year old Chelios.

These are guys that came 2nd to him!

3rd? Interesting. Who do you have 2? Bourque?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Good post. Lidstrom was definitely overrated and in his later years voters also basically gifted him Norrises for past merits and team success.

In his earlier years he was outplayed by many, and in his later years he was the voters' pet.

How many Norrises was he gifted, out of curiosity?

 

[Patty Ice]

Ek has not looked Norris worthy for a couple of years now due to lingering injuries.

Someone missed Sharks hockey midseason.

 

[SotasicA]

How many Norrises was he gifted, out of curiosity?

I voted against him each time, but that's just me.

Also, I was not on the panel.

 

[Boy Hedican]

EK65 is going to have a monster season. Just watch.