Elmira Coming Back To Minor League Hockey????
- Thread starter Hit Em Hoss
- Start date
Atlantian
Registered User
From everything I’ve heard it will be a new FPHL team in Elmira. Would love to see Elmira back in the ECHL but I don’t see it as a feasible location anymore
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
USPHL's NCDC is not a match for Elmira. The Boston Mafia's most basic requirements for having a NCDC team are owning their arena, usually a multi-rink pad, top to bottom organization with teams from Premier down to learn to play, etc. Twin City Thunder are the only USPHL organization with a NCDC team that doesn't adhere to this, and that was a political ploy to try and steal a certain potential NAHL market.
They weren't evicted. It was the county and the owners who were leasing the First Arena who presumably were not able to come to an agreement towards a new contract so the team was dispursed in a draft. They can still play in Elmira if of course they had a barn to play at.
mk80
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- Jul 30, 2012
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I was going to essentially say what Barclay has already stated. If they went the junior route it wouldn't be NCDC as that adheres to more of a structure with youth organizations and USPHL levels top to bottom, as opposed to NAHL teams which are operated more like minor league hockey teams, although that organizational model the USPHL uses has crept into the league.
Again I will say I bet they go the FPHL route, but was more or less stating that there was the other remaining option.
bleedblue94
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- Jun 8, 2004
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Whatever mod deleted my previous posts just PM me and they can verify me for my information.
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Well this is a bust largely.
Donner gets a 5 year lease. He claims that he is on the hook for the day to day operations and the fiscal responsibilities. There was also mention of a specific account for proceeds to go to the IDA specifically.
It's an FHL team. Donner says they could start in January or next season. Pass. The FHL isnt as good as college hockey. Speaking of that there were subtle hints about college hockey coming eventually. I just hope that the rich school EC actually forms over real cash. They play presently at their location for $1 apparently.
It sounds like there may be indoor soccer or lacrosse coming. That's kinda sext. Not a fan of either sport for the most part but stick anything indoors and it gets interesting with the smaller space.
Donner gets a 5 year lease. He claims that he is on the hook for the day to day operations and the fiscal responsibilities. There was also mention of a specific account for proceeds to go to the IDA specifically.
It's an FHL team. Donner says they could start in January or next season. Pass. The FHL isnt as good as college hockey. Speaking of that there were subtle hints about college hockey coming eventually. I just hope that the rich school EC actually forms over real cash. They play presently at their location for $1 apparently.
It sounds like there may be indoor soccer or lacrosse coming. That's kinda sext. Not a fan of either sport for the most part but stick anything indoors and it gets interesting with the smaller space.
The attendance has been brutal since they exist. Anything Robbie Nichols does should be taken with a grain of salt. He is notorious for giving out tons of free tickets.
I do feel like the league is propping up Wheeling's survival though. This is a franchise that should have been dead like 15 years ago.
But we all know it's a ruse. Wheeling is just as economically depressed. I doubt this charade can last long term.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Wheeling has been under ownership by this joint venture for nearly a decade and hasn't ever had publicized relocation or folding talks. They've managed to renovate the arena and have provided demonstrable and tangible economic benefits to the downtown area.
What isn't demonstrable are your claims that it is a ruse or a short term charade.
Not a hard claim. their attendance remains poor and money won't be coming in forever. It might work in the short term but it's not a viable go on forever forward idea. It's not like the economy in Wheeling next month or a decade from now is gunna see an Economic resurgence none of little America is. All of these small areas are pretty much toast from a logistical standpoint long term going ahead in this country.
This will end in 3 ways....
1. Donner and his buddy take all of that money and skip town.
2. The IDA gets the money they want and they possibly hand the arena off to the college and they use the place as a tax write off until it comes time for the building to need maintenance and they don't want to deal with that.
3. It works out and the debt disappears and Donner either Buys it or they find someone wanting to buy it.
3 is the least likely I could see happening. My bank is on #1.
1. Donner and his buddy take all of that money and skip town.
2. The IDA gets the money they want and they possibly hand the arena off to the college and they use the place as a tax write off until it comes time for the building to need maintenance and they don't want to deal with that.
3. It works out and the debt disappears and Donner either Buys it or they find someone wanting to buy it.
3 is the least likely I could see happening. My bank is on #1.
Barclay Donaldson
Registered User
Someone doesn't know how non-profits and regional economic development corporations work...
They aren't running this team as a business. They aren't running it to make money. They are running it to economically invigorate the region by attracting people to downtown. This has had a demonstrable effect. Downtown has sizeable increases in people paying to eat, drink, park, etc. when the Nailers play. They are seeing those increase because those are from people who are going to watch the Nailers play. There is a correlation.
And that is the only purpose of this venture between Ohio Valley Industrial & Business Development Corporation and Wheeling Youth Hockey. It isn't to keep bringing money in for the Nailers. It is to economically invigorate the area. See the Rockford IceHogs modus operandi before their sale to the Chicago Blackhawks. As long as there is that correlation for consumer activity downtown, which there demonstrably has been since the new ownership, the Nailers are fine. They also have a sweetheart lease deal with the Wheeling Municipal Auditorium Board, who understandably have a very close relationship with the Ohio Valley Industrial & Business Development Corporation since they rely on each other heavily.
But you're not going to understand that until you understand how non-profits and regional economic development corporations work. See the second paragraph to help that learning process.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
When you start to "feel like" the ECHL owners as a whole have the financial wherewithal & motivation to contribute to "propping up" a member team for 10+ years (or even for one season), please place calls immediately to the former owners in Brampton & Manchester & Anchorage & Las Vegas & Evansville & Moline to give them the good news. Did I forget anybody?
Atlantian
Registered User
Don't forget they would not even "Prop up" Augusta, Fresno, or San Francisco to help them finish their seasonsWhen you start to "feel like" the ECHL owners as a whole have the financial wherewithal & motivation to contribute to "propping up" a member team for 10+ years (or even for one season), please place calls immediately to the former owners in Brampton & Manchester & Anchorage & Las Vegas & Evansville & Moline to give them the good news. Did I forget anybody?
Johnstown one of the founding members..When you start to "feel like" the ECHL owners as a whole have the financial wherewithal & motivation to contribute to "propping up" a member team for 10+ years (or even for one season), please place calls immediately to the former owners in Brampton & Manchester & Anchorage & Las Vegas & Evansville & Moline to give them the good news. Did I forget anybody?
Boy do I long for the chiefs.
Nahl jr hockey sucks now that USA hockey implemented rules to take physicality out of the game..
JR hockey does not sale in Johnstown seats are bare..
royals119
Registered User
The city of Wheeling is probably not going to return to "glory days", although last time I was there (pre-pandemic) there were more stores open than in the past. This isn't just about Wheeling though. I have friends who live in Belle Vernon PA who have Nailers season tickets. Lots of their fans live in Ohio. If people go for a night out at the game in Wheeling and stop for dinner in St Clairsville or Moundville, or see an advertisement for the local contractor and decide to call them to have work done on their house in Wellsburg, that is still economic activity being generated for members of the regional business development group. Plus maybe their kid enjoys the game and tells mom and dad he wants to play hockey, and they join the youth hockey association. There are benefit beyond making money on the games for the owners, and many of them aren't actually located in the city of Wheeling.
royals119
Registered User
I'd love to see the Chiefs back in the ECHL too, but I don't think it is viable any longer. Their NAHL team isn't doing that bad though. They've been top five in the league in attendance most years, usually over 2000 per game on average. Looks like last year they played with no fans, so coming back from the pandemic this year is probably going to be down a bit, but they are still doing 1575 a game on average, which is sixth in the league. I have friends up there who enjoy the games. Some of them go regularly, some split their time between Tomahawks, Penguins and Nailers games. I think at that level it should be more about skill building than going out there trying to lay the big check or getting in a fight. I've been watching hockey a long time, and my views have changed. Expecting the players to go out there and risk permanent brain damage for my entertainment is not what I'm looking for anymore - especially teenagers in tier 2 juniors. This is about hoping to get recruited to a college program for most of those kids, not about NHL contracts and millions of dollars.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
I chose to stop digging into ECHL history for my list when I got back to the SF Bulls. Pat Curcio was a whole 'nother can of slimy worms.
