Prospect Info: Elias Pettersson | Pt. II

[mouser]

I'm curious if there's a reason why Vancouver hasn't signed him yet? Not that it's a big deal since he's going to need time to develop, but he's the only unsigned top 10 pick who isn't NCAA committed.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Not exactly clear from that response if Pettersson has turned down a contract or what.

I haven't heard anything from the Canucks side on it.

 

[MS]

You went from concern to disaster pretty quick.

The only top 5-7 pick in the last decade+ who was a forward, didn't play regularly in the NHL at age 21, and then went on to become anything at all is Nazem Kadri.

If it's 2020 and this top-5 pick hasn't become an NHL regular as he's approaching his 22nd birthday ... yeah, it's tracking like a disaster.

Also, I find it funny how you get twisted around about this as though I'm saying something negative about the pick or Benning. I'm not, at all. I'm just saying where this player needs to be tracking if he's going to be a big part of this team's future. And I think he can and should do it.

 

[Roy Baby*]

Not exactly clear from that response if Pettersson has turned down a contract or what.

I haven't heard anything from the Canucks side on it.

Sounds like Nucks management wasn't too impressed and he didn't get one.... not good

 

[racerjoe]

I am not 100% sure on this, but since he is signed in the SHL and plans on playing there can't we not sign him? Or at least not sign him without compensation going to the SHL?

Either way it isn't a worry when he didn't plan on playing here next season anyway.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Sounds like Nucks management wasn't too impressed and he didn't get one.... not good

Is this a serious post or are you just joking?

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

I'm curious if there's a reason why Vancouver hasn't signed him yet? Not that it's a big deal since he's going to need time to develop, but he's the only unsigned top 10 pick who isn't NCAA committed.

It's not uncommon for a player who was just drafted and playing overseas to not sign one right away. He's at least two years away so nothing to see here..

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Sounds like Nucks management wasn't too impressed and he didn't get one.... not good

Talk about trying to create drama where there isn't any..

He's playing in Sweden this season..Their season starts in September..He's not attending Canucks camp or playing here this season..Hence,no reason to sign him

 

[Bad Goalie]

How was it a PR pick? I think Glass would have been way more of a PR pick. Good Wastern Canadian kid looking like Johansen.

Like the pick or not we picked him because OUR management team liked him the most.

Just remember, McFly knocks out biff by the end of the movie... in all three.



Pretty much what I see. See him on a bit of the same path Nylander was on with the added season in the SHL.

Willie's birthday is in May so he starts a season at an age and plays at that age for most of the year into May.

Elias looks like he is playing at a younger age because he turns in November.

Nylander played 37 AHL games at 18. At 19 Nylander played 38 AHL games and 22 in the NHL. At 20 he played a full season in the NHL.

Forget his 18 yr old season it's gone. Elias will play his 19 yr old season in the SHL. He will be 20 when he plays the equivalent of Nylander's 18 yr old season. At 21 he maybe splits between the AHL/NHL. Then at 22 he plays his first NHL season.

That's what it will look like if he follows Nylander's path if he plays the extra season in the SHL. If he and Dahlen came together this season to the AHL half way through the season like William did, he'd already be a season behind based on age.

I'd advocate them both doing such this season. If the big deal with Dahlen going back is to play with Pettersson then let them get their feet wet together in NA as well. Play the WJC and then come to NA and join the Comets. Start the !8-19 season there and get a few looks in Vancouver. 19-20 becomes up to their development path as to whether or not they stick in the show. This is proper development without rushing anything.

Little brother Alex Nylander will be starting his second year in the AHL with Rochester at 19. He got 4 games with the Sabres last season as well.

 

[mouser]

It's not uncommon for a player who was just drafted and playing overseas to not sign one right away. He's at least two years away so nothing to see here..

Well, actually there's a very good reason Vancouver should sign him now--he's a late birthday. November 12th.

- If the Canucks sign him now then his ELC can slide up to two times (2017-18 and 2018-19).

- If the Canucks instead sign him next summer then his ELC cannot slide at all, and would burn a year even if they brought him to NA to play in the AHL in 2018-19.

Just for flexibility I'd think they're better off signing him now, in the case they do decide to bring him over next year. Worst case it's a wash if he doesn't come over until 2019-20.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Yeah, to clarify - expectations for their upside and future role are set too high, but expectations for where they should be in their development if they're tracking to meet that upside are set way too low.

Guys who make it separate themselves early. Like Boeser has. Virtually every forward taken in the #3-8 overall range over the last decade who has amounted to anything of note has been an NHL regular at age 20. If you think Pettersson should be an impact player for this team, you should damn well be expecting him to shred the SEL next year and be on our lineup in October 2018.

Like datsyuk and Zetterburg and naslund and Bertuzzi and etc there are tons of players who don't get it figured out in the nHL until later. Yes I get your point in the lesser leagues they tend to dominate early, but not always. And even if they do it does't necessarily translate to the NHL.

And Peterson has the disadvantage of a slight frame .... no hurrying this guy ...

 

[FroshaugFan2]

It's not uncommon for a player who was just drafted and playing overseas to not sign one right away. He's at least two years away so nothing to see here..

I feel like a lot more often then not top ten picks sign the same summer they were drafted, even if they are going to play in Europe the next season.

Heiskanen and Andersson have signed already. Brodin, William Nylander, and Zibanejad all signed the same summer they were drafted and were then loaned back to Europe.

On the other side Mikael Granlund was the last top ten pick to go back and play in Europe without a NHL contract.

 

[MS]

Like datsyuk and Zetterburg and naslund and Bertuzzi and etc there are tons of players who don't get it figured out in the nHL until later. Yes I get your point in the lesser leagues they tend to dominate early, but not always. And even if they do it does't necessarily translate to the NHL.

And Peterson has the disadvantage of a slight frame .... no hurrying this guy ...

Those guys are outliers. And are examples from over 15 years ago. And Bertuzzi scored 40 points in the NHL at age 20.

A top-5 pick should contribute, and contribute quickly. If Pettersson needs 3 more years of development before he's an NHL regular (and this after he's already played 2 full years against men and has a late-birthday so an extra year of development when drafted), then he shouldn't have been a top-5 pick and taking him there was a dumb move. We should have taken Mittlestadt or Vilardi or whoever instead.

But I don't feel this is the case. Again, guys like RNH and Nicklas Backstrom have come into the league as toothpicks and produced immediately, and if Pettersson has the talent to justify his draft position, he should be able to as well. He might lose a bunch of puck battles or struggle defensively at first, but he should be able to contribute quickly.

Taking a guy with a top-5 pick that you think can't play until he's 21-22 is a TERRIBLE move if that were the case.

 

[Tim Calhoun]

Not exactly clear from that response if Pettersson has turned down a contract or what.

I haven't heard anything from the Canucks side on it.

Have to think he isn't very enthusiastic about signing with the Canucks.

Who was the last European prospect to refuse a contract a la Vesey/Schultz? It would be a very black mark on this club.

 

[me2]

Have to think he isn't very enthusiastic about signing with the Canucks.

Who was the last European prospect to refuse a contract a la Vesey/Schultz? It would be a very black mark on this club.

It may have little to do with liking or not liking the Canucks. He might just prefer to be his own man for the year as it gives him more control over if he knows he's not making the canucks and he isn't unless he gains 20lb quick smart. He's probably been offered max so it isn't about money.

 

[me2]

Well, actually there's a very good reason Vancouver should sign him now--he's a late birthday. November 12th.

- If the Canucks sign him now then his ELC can slide up to two times (2017-18 and 2018-19).

- If the Canucks instead sign him next summer then his ELC cannot slide at all, and would burn a year even if they brought him to NA to play in the AHL in 2018-19.

Just for flexibility I'd think they're better off signing him now, in the case they do decide to bring him over next year. Worst case it's a wash if he doesn't come over until 2019-20.

Maybe his agent is recommending he not sign until next year if they feel he has little or no chance of making the canucks this year.

 

[Knight53]

1.5 years. He'll see NHL action in the 2018-2019 season IMO, probably after the deadline like Boeser this past year. Ideally, he stays away from the team for 2 years while the team tanks.

 

[DL44]

Im glad we have all the worse case scenarios laid out.

 

[CanaFan]

Im glad we have all the worse case scenarios laid out.

I don't think any of those are actual worst case scenarios.

 

[mouser]

Maybe his agent is recommending he not sign until next year if they feel he has little or no chance of making the canucks this year.

Dunno what he's making in Sweden, but sign now and get an immediate $92.5k signing bonus. The Canucks and his SHL team can sort out who pays him what when he's assigned to the SHL.

 

[lawrence]

Those guys are outliers. And are examples from over 15 years ago. And Bertuzzi scored 40 points in the NHL at age 20.

A top-5 pick should contribute, and contribute quickly. If Pettersson needs 3 more years of development before he's an NHL regular (and this after he's already played 2 full years against men and has a late-birthday so an extra year of development when drafted), then he shouldn't have been a top-5 pick and taking him there was a dumb move. We should have taken Mittlestadt or Vilardi or whoever instead.

But I don't feel this is the case. Again, guys like RNH and Nicklas Backstrom have come into the league as toothpicks and produced immediately, and if Pettersson has the talent to justify his draft position, he should be able to as well. He might lose a bunch of puck battles or struggle defensively at first, but he should be able to contribute quickly.

Taking a guy with a top-5 pick that you think can't play until he's 21-22 is a TERRIBLE move if that were the case.

what makes you think they will be ready by age 20? Vilardi and Mittlestadt. As far as I know their development path is almost the same. 2 -3 years until the NHL. Mittlestadt apparently said he will like to spend 4 years in college. Plus we don't know what management intends to do with Petterson, all I know is he will probably play in N/A next year.

1.5 years. He'll see NHL action in the 2018-2019 season IMO, probably after the deadline like Boeser this past year. Ideally, he stays away from the team for 2 years while the team tanks.

this is what I am thinking too.

A top-5 pick should contribute, and contribute quickly.

a top 5 pick and a top 2 pick is 2 different things, and how quickly are they expected to contribute ?

 

[ChilliBilly]

what makes you think they will be ready by age 20? Vilardi and Mittlestadt. As far as I know their development path is almost the same. 2 -3 years until the NHL. Mittlestadt apparently said he will like to spend 4 years in college. Plus we don't know what management intends to do with Petterson, all I know is he will probably play in N/A next year.



this is what I am thinking too.



a top 5 pick and a top 2 pick is 2 different things, and how quickly are they expected to contribute ?

Why would he play in Canada? If he sign's a ELC it won't come in to effect until he plays in either Utica or Van. He should play SEL for at least one more year. And what pray tell is the advantage for him or the Canucks in playing in Utica if he can earn more money in Sweden?

 

[lawrence]

Why would he play in Canada? If he sign's a ELC it won't come in to effect until he plays in either Utica or Van. He should play SEL for at least one more year. And what pray tell is the advantage for him or the Canucks in playing in Utica if he can earn more money in Sweden?

2018 season plays in Sweden.

at the end of our season next summer we sign him. 2019 season he be in AHL/NHL.

He will make his NHL debut along with Olli Juolevi and Rasmus Dhalin officially pathing the path for the next generation of Canucks.

 

[Trelane]

Well ya, cause someone asked in this thread how long they thought he'd take.

Like do people not understand what these threads are for? You can discuss things that are opinions and not past events or mathematical facts.

This board gets so uptight when anyone has a "glass is not 100% full" opinion about things. Yeesh.

Funnily enough I'm seeing the reverse. Like this board getting its panties in a knot when prevailing opinion is something other than glass being 100% empty.


Pencil necks, even top 5 picks, should take longer to make the show unless they're rushed and needlessly setup for an early career injury, e.g., RNH. My guess is two years, going just by him gaining something like 11lbs over the last year, thus allowing him to reach Sedin weight in a leisurely/natural manner in that time. The wait will be worth the payoff.

 

[drax0s]

Another angle on Pettersson's goal.