ECHL: Wranglers’ arena woes

[CoyoteUgly]

Damn, I always made an effort to see a game whenever I went to Vegas

http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/kats-report/2013/dec/31/wranglers-being-jettisoned-orleans-arena-after-sea/


----------------------

Mod edit (Placed in first post for easier recall)

http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/kats-report/2014/feb/14/wranglers-search-new-home-vegas-ends-plaza/​

The Las Vegas Wranglers are heading to the city’s very core, the famous hotel at 1 Main Street.

Wranglers President Billy Johnson said today that Las Vegas’ entrant in the ECHL has reached an agreement with owners of the Plaza in downtown Las Vegas to play its home games in a leased facility to be built on that property for five years beginning with the 2014-15 season in October.

The yet-unnamed venue will seat about 3,500 fans, though its final design might change that figure. It will be built on the fifth-level pool and event deck of the resort, on existing space connecting the two hotel towers. Fans would park at the Plaza parking garage or in the hotel’s surface lot, and there is access to that space from both towers.

Under terms of the new agreement to be reviewed by ECHL officials, the Wranglers would play at the Plaza for five seasons, with an option to extend for another five years. The team’s headquarters will be moved to the property, beginning soon after it ends its 11-year run at the Orleans Arena in April.

Click to read more...

 

[Mike Jones]

This is so weird. Why would the Orleans punt the Wranglers? What are they going to replace them with?

The only thing I can think of is that the Orleans management no longer want all those free buffets handed out when people buy tickets.

 

[adsfan]

Will this hurt the chances of LV getting an NHL team some day?

 

[Mike Jones]

Will this hurt the chances of LV getting an NHL team some day?

I don't know but there's no way an NHL team could play at the Orleans anyway. At least not without a major expansion.

Isn't there a plan in the works for a large arena for Vegas?

And is there another rink the Wranglers could play in?

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Shame to hear. Hope something gets worked out.

 

[Prussian_Blue]

I don't know but there's no way an NHL team could play at the Orleans anyway. At least not without a major expansion.

Isn't there a plan in the works for a large arena for Vegas?

And is there another rink the Wranglers could play in?

This place looks like it could work, if they have ice-making capacity:

http://www.southpointarena.com/arena.php

 

[PaulieVegas]

I don't know but there's no way an NHL team could play at the Orleans anyway. At least not without a major expansion.

Isn't there a plan in the works for a large arena for Vegas?

And is there another rink the Wranglers could play in?

As a Wranglers' season ticket holder, I would be very disappointed to see them leave. They regularly draw respectable crowds (2,500-3,000 during the week, 5,000-6,000 on the weekends...not earth-shattering, but respectable) and their fan base is passionate and supportive. It would be a shame to see them go.

The arena at the South Point Hotel & Casino, which was suggested in another post, is the only real alternative. And as it happens, it would be perfect. It is ideally located, is virtually a carbon copy in appearance and seating capacity as the Orleans' arena, and it is sorely underused. I just checked the schedule for events in 2014 and between now and the end of May there are only THREE on calendar (two days of flat truck racing, an Arenacross, and something called a "Bad A$$ Dash"). It would be a perfect replacement, and if they don't have their own ice making/maintenance equipment they can just buy the Orleans'. Not that the Orleans will need it anymore.

The only other options in town are the Thomas & Mack Center, the MGM Grand Garden Arena, and the Mandalay Bay Arena. None are viable options. Thomas & Mack is among the worst and most outdated arenas in the country and it will look awkward seeing 3,000 people sitting in an arena that can hold 13,000. The Las Vegas Thunder of the old IHL played in T&M for a while and it couldn't make it work, and they drew far bigger crowds. MGM and Mandalay Bay would not be interested, ECHL hockey is far too "bush league" and "C-list" for them. I cant imagine that arenas which regularly host the world's biggest fights and entertainers will want to share the marquis with a low-level minor-league hockey team.

As for the possibilities of an arena in Las Vegas, I doubt it will ever happen. The idea of building an arena has gained a lot of steam in the past decade or so, but the end result is always the same: the idea gets proposed, kicked around in the media for a while, and then disappears. When Oscar Goodman was mayor it was a pipe dream of his to get an arena built and then try to draw a pro sports team (preferably an NBA team, but they'd settle for an NHL team). Now that he's not mayor anymore the issue has faded into the background. A couple weeks ago there was another new story in the media about a private investor wanting to build a $1.2 billion arena on the grounds of the now-closed Sahara Hotel & Casino, but Las Vegans have heard it all before and grown jaded. We'll believe it when concrete it finally being laid, until then it's just noise.

The big problem is that even if we build an arena, there is no guarantee we will get a team. Then what? Who wants to build an arena for nothing? The NFL has gone on record as saying Vegas will never get a team as long as their is legalized gambling in Nevada. I don't remember if the NHL has taken a stance on the issue, but I know the NBA held the All-Star game at Thomas & Mack a few years back as sort of an "audition" to show Vegas is capable of supporting a team, and the entire weekend turned out to be a disaster. So they're probably not likely to give us a team.

Anyway, I'm getting off track. According to a local article the Wranglers have only until Jan. 20 to show the ECHL they are in serious discussions with an arena or they will not be allowed to play next season, which means they would either fold or move. The South Point Arena is a perfect and logical choice: the Wranglers need a home, and the South Point Arena needs tenants. Hopefully it's not too late and these two entities can come together and reach an agreement in time.

 

[lvwranglersfan]

As a Wranglers' season ticket holder, I would be very disappointed to see them leave. They regularly draw respectable crowds (2,500-3,000 during the week, 5,000-6,000 on the weekends...not earth-shattering, but respectable) and their fan base is passionate and supportive. It would be a shame to see them go.

The arena at the South Point Hotel & Casino, which was suggested in another post, is the only real alternative. And as it happens, it would be perfect. It is ideally located, is virtually a carbon copy in appearance and seating capacity as the Orleans' arena, and it is sorely underused. I just checked the schedule for events in 2014 and between now and the end of May there are only THREE on calendar (two days of flat truck racing, an Arenacross, and something called a "Bad A$$ Dash"). It would be a perfect replacement, and if they don't have their own ice making/maintenance equipment they can just buy the Orleans'. Not that the Orleans will need it anymore.

The only other options in town are the Thomas & Mack Center, the MGM Grand Garden Arena, and the Mandalay Bay Arena. None are viable options. Thomas & Mack is among the worst and most outdated arenas in the country and it will look awkward seeing 3,000 people sitting in an arena that can hold 13,000. The Las Vegas Thunder of the old IHL played in T&M for a while and it couldn't make it work, and they drew far bigger crowds. MGM and Mandalay Bay would not be interested, ECHL hockey is far too "bush league" and "C-list" for them. I cant imagine that arenas which regularly host the world's biggest fights and entertainers will want to share the marquis with a low-level minor-league hockey team.

As for the possibilities of an arena in Las Vegas, I doubt it will ever happen. The idea of building an arena has gained a lot of steam in the past decade or so, but the end result is always the same: the idea gets proposed, kicked around in the media for a while, and then disappears. When Oscar Goodman was mayor it was a pipe dream of his to get an arena built and then try to draw a pro sports team (preferably an NBA team, but they'd settle for an NHL team). Now that he's not mayor anymore the issue has faded into the background. A couple weeks ago there was another new story in the media about a private investor wanting to build a $1.2 billion arena on the grounds of the now-closed Sahara Hotel & Casino, but Las Vegans have heard it all before and grown jaded. We'll believe it when concrete it finally being laid, until then it's just noise.

The big problem is that even if we build an arena, there is no guarantee we will get a team. Then what? Who wants to build an arena for nothing? The NFL has gone on record as saying Vegas will never get a team as long as their is legalized gambling in Nevada. I don't remember if the NHL has taken a stance on the issue, but I know the NBA held the All-Star game at Thomas & Mack a few years back as sort of an "audition" to show Vegas is capable of supporting a team, and the entire weekend turned out to be a disaster. So they're probably not likely to give us a team.

Anyway, I'm getting off track. According to a local article the Wranglers have only until Jan. 20 to show the ECHL they are in serious discussions with an arena or they will not be allowed to play next season, which means they would either fold or move. The South Point Arena is a perfect and logical choice: the Wranglers need a home, and the South Point Arena needs tenants. Hopefully it's not too late and these two entities can come together and reach an agreement in time.

First, let's hope we don't get an NHL team here in Vegas. It would fail miserably.

Now on to the real issue, Boyd Gaming's eviction of the Wranglers. Boyd released a statement saying they have been unable to reach an agreement. The team released a statement saying there was no offer, just saying they would not be welcome back for next year. I believe the team on this one. Since the deadline is Jan 20, wouldn't it be in the best interest if both parties are interested, to continue negotiations until then before announcing anything? As a season ticket holder since season 4, it sucks that I will most likely not be renewing if they move to the South Point. I am sure it is a nice enough arena but it is way too far away from most of the valley, especially with our freeway traffic. It could take some people living in the far north side of the valley upwards of an hour to get to the South Point. But the people responsible for bringing the Wranglers to the Orleans are now in charge at the South Point so it isn't too farfetched to see it happen. The owner of the South Point loves hockey and used to own the Orleans.

And by the way, the South Point arena, according to their website holds almost 3,000 less people than the Orleans. They list their capacity as 4,600, although that doesn't include temporary seating which I guess could get them close, but there is no firm evidence of that.

It's humorous that an arena that was built for the hockey team, is now telling the team they are not wanted.

 

[PaulieVegas]

First, let's hope we don't get an NHL team here in Vegas. It would fail miserably.

Now on to the real issue, Boyd Gaming's eviction of the Wranglers. Boyd released a statement saying they have been unable to reach an agreement. The team released a statement saying there was no offer, just saying they would not be welcome back for next year. I believe the team on this one. Since the deadline is Jan 20, wouldn't it be in the best interest if both parties are interested, to continue negotiations until then before announcing anything? As a season ticket holder since season 4, it sucks that I will most likely not be renewing if they move to the South Point. I am sure it is a nice enough arena but it is way too far away from most of the valley, especially with our freeway traffic. It could take some people living in the far north side of the valley upwards of an hour to get to the South Point. But the people responsible for bringing the Wranglers to the Orleans are now in charge at the South Point so it isn't too farfetched to see it happen. The owner of the South Point loves hockey and used to own the Orleans.

And by the way, the South Point arena, according to their website holds almost 3,000 less people than the Orleans. They list their capacity as 4,600, although that doesn't include temporary seating which I guess could get them close, but there is no firm evidence of that.

It's humorous that an arena that was built for the hockey team, is now telling the team they are not wanted.

Okay, thanks for correcting me on the South Point seating capacity. I did not know it was that much lower, 4,600 is not very much. I once went to a minor-league MMA event there and thought the arena looked very similar to the Orleans in seating capacity, obviously I was wrong.

I believe the team in this one too, and I don't think it makes sense for the two sides not to at least do the one-year extension for next season. Who knows, maybe cooler heads will prevail. And I didn't think about that angle with Gaughan (I assume that's who you meant by the South Point's owner) being such a big hockey fan, that is very encouraging.

I do however think you underestimate people's willingness to travel to South Point for games. I'm speculating, but honestly I don't think the drive would be that much worse. It's easy for me to say because I live in Henderson, and South Point is actually closer for me. But I think the South Point is only about four miles south of the Tropicana offramp on 15, which I assume most NLV fans take to get to the Orleans. And as someone who used to drive from Summerlin to Anthem during rush hour, traffic gets considerably smoother once you get past Russell Road.

More importantly, as opposed to the Orleans, South Point is right on the freeway. You get off the freeway, make a left, and boom, you're there. On the other hand, from the freeway the Orleans is a slow and painful 1.5-mile long drive through heavy traffic and lots of stoplights. I'm purely speculating but, I can't imagine the drive to the South Point is much longer or worse than the drive to the Orleans.

Well whatever happens, I'm hopeful that things can get worked out and the Wranglers stay here. I assume you're going to the game this afternoon. Enjoy, maybe I'll see you there.

 

[lvwranglersfan]

Okay, thanks for correcting me on the South Point seating capacity. I did not know it was that much lower, 4,600 is not very much. I once went to a minor-league MMA event there and thought the arena looked very similar to the Orleans in seating capacity, obviously I was wrong.

I believe the team in this one too, and I don't think it makes sense for the two sides not to at least do the one-year extension for next season. Who knows, maybe cooler heads will prevail. And I didn't think about that angle with Gaughan (I assume that's who you meant by the South Point's owner) being such a big hockey fan, that is very encouraging.

I do however think you underestimate people's willingness to travel to South Point for games. I'm speculating, but honestly I don't think the drive would be that much worse. It's easy for me to say because I live in Henderson, and South Point is actually closer for me. But I think the South Point is only about four miles south of the Tropicana offramp on 15, which I assume most NLV fans take to get to the Orleans. And as someone who used to drive from Summerlin to Anthem during rush hour, traffic gets considerably smoother once you get past Russell Road.

More importantly, as opposed to the Orleans, South Point is right on the freeway. You get off the freeway, make a left, and boom, you're there. On the other hand, from the freeway the Orleans is a slow and painful 1.5-mile long drive through heavy traffic and lots of stoplights. I'm purely speculating but, I can't imagine the drive to the South Point is much longer or worse than the drive to the Orleans.

Well whatever happens, I'm hopeful that things can get worked out and the Wranglers stay here. I assume you're going to the game this afternoon. Enjoy, maybe I'll see you there.

The traffic issue is something I am gauging from my wife's reaction. She doesn't drive freeways and we live in the northwest section of town. We normally take surface streets to the Orleans and it is relatively quick and easy. I did a Google maps comparison of the 2 locations and for me from home, it turns from a 8 mile drive to a 17 mile drive, so it doubles. A drive I am willing to make, but some others may not be.

And yes, I was referring to Gaughan.

We'll see what turns this story takes and I am excited to see and hear the reactions in the arena this afternoon, so yes I will be there. I've only missed a few games this year and they are all on Sunday when my daughter has hockey games of her own.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

At this point the South Point casino is it's only option to maintain operations. I have friends that have been season ticket holders since day 1 and I'm not sure if they would make the drive. I live in NLV and I know the amount of games that I would attend would decline. This is really unfortunate news for the team and the fans. If they do move to SP, I would hope that there could be some way to increase the seating, because 4,600 would not be enough.

As far as a "professional" team coming to Vegas, I believe the NHL will be the first to make it's mark. TSN had posted an article a few weeks ago about the NHL and possible expansion in the near future. It mentioned the Northwest, ie Seattle being the main target. The next city mentioned was Las Vegas and how the NHL would love nothing more than to be the first professional team in this city.
I personally feel an NHL team could do well here. I've had many conversations with hockey fans here that don't support the Wranglers because they are minor league.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Sorry to hear about this situation.

I saw all 3 games of the 2008 Kelly Cup finals at The Orleans Arena. I was very impressed with the building.

Here's a link to the South Point facility. It appears to be a more highly utilized facility than one of the posters suggested. I have no idea if it's a viable alternative or not for the Wranglers. I hope that it is.

http://www.southpointarena.com/events.php

 

[JB51Hockey]

Maybe they'll move to Reno?

 

[tvboy11]

4600 is a doable size for an arena in this league. Idaho's is about that size and they do just fine. Colorado's is about 5000 and they do okay, too.

You'd almost hope it would create a demand. Fewer seats, more urgency to buy. Doesn't always work that way, though.

 

[HansH]

Maybe they'll move to Reno?

Not no, but hell no -- for both legal and logistical reasons. There's been an inactive "Reno" franchise paying dues to the ECHL since the WCHL absorption in 2003, so the market isn't even available unless he's bought out.

And even without that hurdle, Reno is just a non-starter until there's a facility. The old WCHL Renegades/Rage played on a temporary arena in the convention center, if I recall correctly, and the CC authorities have shown ZERO interest in allowing that to return, again IIRC. There may be a potential market, there's just no arena -- and that's why the Raiders continue to be dormant.

That said, one more vestige of the classic WCHL is on the way out the door, it looks like... down to just Alaska and Bakersfield of the original six, and add Idaho from the final six... kinda sad.

 

[easternrefugee]

I posted an article on here several weeks ago about AEG/MGM breaking ground on a new 20,000 seat building to include pro hockey and basketball. Teh building is supposed to be open in 2016. Taking into account marketing in advance maybe this has something to do with this whole thing.

Regardless 18 days is going to be very difficult to get something done. ECHL qualified arenas are not sitting around empty in any city. From what i read South Point is being run by the same group that used to own the Orleans and were not hockey enthused in the past.

 

[lvwranglersfan]

Regardless 18 days is going to be very difficult to get something done. ECHL qualified arenas are not sitting around empty in any city. From what i read South Point is being run by the same group that used to own the Orleans and were not hockey enthused in the past.

While I agree the time frame sucks, your comment about Michael Gaughan and Steve Stallworth is off base. The whole reason the Wranglers are here is because of them. Michael Gaughan is a huge hockey fan. They built the Orleans Arena specifically for this purpose. However, they do hate the team president, as does Boyd gaming, which is probably why this started in the first place. Michael Gaughan was one of the names floated when the Wranglers were up for sale a few years ago.

 

[PCSPounder]

I nearly positioned myself into a Reno Events Center visit next month, or even next week. I partly wanted to see if there was enough floor space for a rink. Problem, of course, is that place is tied up nearly every Saturday night. Even Reno gets a good chunk of the entertainment business.

I might take the locals' words here regarding the personality conflict or whatever you say could be driving this. The back of my mind has the "Orleans thinks it can draw other entertainment options and sell more of the seats and keep the money themselves" line. Of course, perhaps South Point's long-term advantage is being so far away from the recognized Strip. It does have good freeway access, but you do have to drive through the thick of the rush traffic to get there.

BTW, in another circumstance, I'm pissed that I didn't put a foot down on a President's Day weekend visit. I'd wanted to see a midnight Wranglers game. Here's hoping South Point keeps the Wranglers alive and continues that "tradition."

 

[easternrefugee]

While I agree the time frame sucks, your comment about Michael Gaughan and Steve Stallworth is off base. The whole reason the Wranglers are here is because of them. Michael Gaughan is a huge hockey fan. They built the Orleans Arena specifically for this purpose. However, they do hate the team president, as does Boyd gaming, which is probably why this started in the first place. Michael Gaughan was one of the names floated when the Wranglers were up for sale a few years ago.

He did not buy the team did he???

Kind of interesting how fast this news hit the press. It is obvious that something happened between the team and the Casino. It was clearly unexpected.

 

[lvwranglersfan]

He did not buy the team did he???

Kind of interesting how fast this news hit the press. It is obvious that something happened between the team and the Casino. It was clearly unexpected.

It was, but only because the Wranglers have always taken it for granted their lease would be renewed without issue. The Orleans and the Wranglers have had a rocky relationship for a while now. Each thinks the other side is trying to screw them. From my point of view, I believe the Hotel got a pretty good deal. After all, the Wranglers get very little for concessions, and no suite revenue. All they get is ticket revenue and sales from the team store. I don't know what the rent is anymore, and that might be the part that is bad for the Orleans.

And no, he didn't buy it, and for good reason. This team is not profitable, and let's be honest, if you are buying a team to make a profit, it is probably the wrong reason. Most sports organizations lose money. They are meant to be write offs for rich people. Everyone tries to make money at it, but it doesn't often pan out that way.

 

[lvwranglersfan]

I nearly positioned myself into a Reno Events Center visit next month, or even next week. I partly wanted to see if there was enough floor space for a rink. Problem, of course, is that place is tied up nearly every Saturday night. Even Reno gets a good chunk of the entertainment business.

I might take the locals' words here regarding the personality conflict or whatever you say could be driving this. The back of my mind has the "Orleans thinks it can draw other entertainment options and sell more of the seats and keep the money themselves" line. Of course, perhaps South Point's long-term advantage is being so far away from the recognized Strip. It does have good freeway access, but you do have to drive through the thick of the rush traffic to get there.

BTW, in another circumstance, I'm pissed that I didn't put a foot down on a President's Day weekend visit. I'd wanted to see a midnight Wranglers game. Here's hoping South Point keeps the Wranglers alive and continues that "tradition."

Reno couldn't do it anyway right now. They have a franchise that has been granted there and the owners keep paying to keep it active, but they have nowhere to play.

I guarantee you it is the Orleans thinking they can book the arena with other events to make more money, however, I doubt that to be true. That is what San Diego thought too when they decided they didn't want the Gulls anymore, and now everytime I go past the Sports Arena down there it is empty. They house Disney on Ice down there, but we have a building that already does that here. The Orleans Arena is too small for many of the shows that comes here, so they pick either the Thomas and Mack, or one of the hotels on the strip to host the shows. But I was hearing yesterday that it isn't over yet.

 

[HansH]

"...blackjack on a Saturday night,
I'm leaving Las Vegas...
...and I won't be back...
No I won't be back.
(Not this time)."

Sorry, had a mid-90s Sheryl Crow flashback for a moment there.

Sincerely hope that the Wranglers can find SOME way to survive -- I enjoyed the games I saw at the Orleans Arena, and have a fondness for the venue cause I got a tour while it was being constructed. Fond memories.

 

[GareFan18]

I posted an article on here several weeks ago about AEG/MGM breaking ground on a new 20,000 seat building to include pro hockey and basketball. Teh building is supposed to be open in 2016. Taking into account marketing in advance maybe this has something to do with this whole thing.
.

Ha! AEG saying a 20,000 seat arena is for the NHL or NBA...

That's the same **** n' bull story they gave Kansas City. How is Kansas City's NHL or NBA team doing? It's total BS. AEG just wants an arena in Vegas that they can book for concerts. AEG makes a lot more money off concerts than they would if an NHL or NBA team occupied the arena, took 41 of their dates and had to share revenue with AEG.

It's for concerts.

http://populous.com/news/2013/11/05/first-renderings-of-new-las-vegas-arena-unveiled/

 

[Francis10]

Any update on the LV situation. What are their options? When is the deadline?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

This article gives reason for hope that Wranglers will find a solution to their arena dilemma.

Johnson has made a lot of progress even in the past week. Most likely, the team will use a temporary facility in which to play its games next year.

“We’re looking for a transitional situation, and we would like to have those conversations right now in concert with a permanent solution and work in concert with one entity,” he said. “We know that is not always possible, but it might be a temporary facility where we can get 2,500 or 2,600 seats in. We just want to reset the clock for Jan. 21.”

Johnson is ready for a shift change, too, if that temporary strategy doesn’t fall into place in time for the Jan. 20 deadline.

“Scenario 2 for next season is we combine two, three facilities, and we play 10 games in one place and 12 in another place. We have a lot of people who have stepped up and said they are willing to do a situation like that,” said Johnson, who has looked into availability at the Thomas & Mack Center and MGM Grand Garden Arena as a permanent home for the Wranglers.

Then Johnson, a master promoter, added, “We promise to be more out of the box than Dick Cheney Hunting Vest Night to solve this problem.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/ka...johnson-boyd-and-orleans-if-wranglers-are-no/