ECHL/CHL Merger rumors

[Thunder God]

I found something about an ECHL and the CHL Merging

http://frozenfutures.com/2014/08/05/rumour-echl-chl-set-merge/

Click to read more...

 

[JungleJON]

He still has the Riverkings as part of the CHL, he should read the sports section every once in awhile as they are in the SPHL.

 

[Agalloch]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/06/report-echl-and-chl-to-merge/

Another link.

I think we will see NHL teams affiliation with AAA (AHL-30 teams) and AA (ECHL/CHL-30 teams).

 

[JB51Hockey]

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/06/report-echl-and-chl-to-merge/

Another link.

I think we will see NHL teams affiliation with AAA (AHL-30 teams) and AA (ECHL/CHL-30 teams).

Ah yes, of course the Las Vegas Wranglers are still in the ECHL and are unaffiliated along with the Colorado Eagles......

 

[NorthStar]

I just saw that report and thought if anyone here has mentioned it so far and I was right.. so it might happen after this coming season is done with.. wow... only thing was the 4 ECHL clubs mentioned to move above to the AHL.. who will they replace in the AHL?? That might be really interesting to find out who...

 

[LadyStanley]

I just saw that report and thought if anyone here has mentioned it so far and I was right.. so it might happen after this coming season is done with.. wow... only thing was the 4 ECHL clubs mentioned to move above to the AHL.. who will they replace in the AHL?? That might be really interesting to find out who...

The three California teams and (I'm guessing) Arizona have been talking (for years) about moving their AHL franchises closer to their NHL franchises.

It came out earlier this summer that the AHL has indicated these discussions ARE taking place and that this could/would be accomplished as early as 2015-16 season.

It's looking more and more like a "done deal" WRT future plans.

(So, that would be AHL Worcester, AHL Manchester, AHL Portland, and AHL San Antonio that would be "relocated".)

 

[Agalloch]

Stockton Thunder (Worcester) - SJ Sharks
Ontario Reign (Manchester)- LA Kings
Las Vegas Wranglers (Portland) - Arizona Coyotes
Bakersfield Condors (Oklahoma) - Edmonton Oilers ?
?? (Norfolk) - Anaheim Ducks ?

 

[hkymnky]

At the risk of beating a dead horse Portland is not owned by the Coyotes, and are unlikely to be participating in the western migration (what with new ownership, a newly remodeled arena, etc.).

That being said, Arizona could buy another AHL team (perhaps the Springfield Falcons?) and move them west. However, of all the teams being discussed the Coyotes are by far the weakest of the bunch (just look at the unending parade of threads on the Business of Hockey board) and I'm skeptical that the organization has the funds lying around to buy an AHL club.

Also..San Antonio is owned by the Spurs (who in turn operate the building) so its highly unlikely that the Rampage would be going anywhere, especially with a greater concentration of teams to the west.

 

[wildcat48]

At the risk of beating a dead horse Portland is not owned by the Coyotes, and are unlikely to be participating in the western migration (what with new ownership, a newly remodeled arena, etc.).

Finally someone who gets it.

 

[JungleJON]

Finally someone who gets it.

Well, the Yotes can still put their AHL team in another city and then Portland can scramble to find another NHL willing to relocate there.

Some AHL eastern teams will lose their franchise only to gain another and some of the smaller (poor attendance) teams will either drop down to AA, A or junior.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

At the risk of beating a dead horse Portland is not owned by the Coyotes, and are unlikely to be participating in the western migration (what with new ownership, a newly remodeled arena, etc.).

That being said, Arizona could buy another AHL team (perhaps the Springfield Falcons?) and move them west. However, of all the teams being discussed the Coyotes are by far the weakest of the bunch (just look at the unending parade of threads on the Business of Hockey board) and I'm skeptical that the organization has the funds lying around to buy an AHL club.

Also..San Antonio is owned by the Spurs (who in turn operate the building) so its highly unlikely that the Rampage would be going anywhere, especially with a greater concentration of teams to the west.

Let's not let indisputable, well-known facts get in the way of a "expert" in the business of hockey's opinion of what is going to happen...

 

[hkymnky]

Two good points

Well, the Yotes can still put their AHL team in another city and then Portland can scramble to find another NHL willing to relocate there.

By no means are Arizona and Portland joined at the hip...its just frustrating how often people seem to confuse an affiliation with outright ownership. Portland has been doing the affiliation hustle for a number of years now since ending their longstanding affiliation with the Capitals almost ten years ago.

I suspect they'll manage to find a partner by the time the music stops. While Portland will always be a smaller market in the AHL, I think they have the right combination of assets to get through the turbulent times ahead. Last season was very touch and go, but I'm more optimistic about the future of the Pirates than I've been in a long time.

Some AHL eastern teams will lose their franchise only to gain another and some of the smaller (poor attendance) teams will either drop down to AA, A or junior.

Ultimately the prospective ECHL/CHL merger and the westward movement of AHL franchises is going to have a very big impact on the minor league hockey landscape. As you said, I could easily see markets "stepping up" to AAA or "stepping down" to AA, A, or Junior.

The challenge is going to be geography. I could see Oklahoma City rejoining the AA ranks in a unified ECHL/CHL, but Manchester may have a harder time finding a place as it is well outside the combined league's footprint.

For all we know there could be even more pieces waiting to fall into place. All I do know is that if all these rumors are true (and there's certainly a lot of smoke), its going to be a very interesting year.

 

[speedrissr]

I would consider OKC a more likely candidate than Portland, of course, a shuffle of lesser AHL teams could end up with Portland getting a different team. OKC has been a disappointment in the AHL, attendance has never been as expected there.

Al?

RLR

 

[wildcat48]

Two good points



By no means are Arizona and Portland joined at the hip...its just frustrating how often people seem to confuse an affiliation with outright ownership. Portland has been doing the affiliation hustle for a number of years now since ending their longstanding affiliation with the Capitals almost ten years ago.

I suspect they'll manage to find a partner by the time the music stops. While Portland will always be a smaller market in the AHL, I think they have the right combination of assets to get through the turbulent times ahead. Last season was very touch and go, but I'm more optimistic about the future of the Pirates than I've been in a long time.

Agreed. With Ron Cain's ownership and the franchise stability in the marketplace with the renovations done to the Cross Insurance Arena, new long-term lease and the OA Performance Center in Saco and Cain's other sport properties gives Portland an edge they may not have had several years ago.

I'm confident that if the Coyotes leave Portland will get another NHL affiliate just like they did when Washington, Anaheim and Buffalo decided to leave.

 

[CJNewman]

I don't understand why everyone insists Portland will move. If it was going to happen it would of when all the drama over the lease was happening last year not after they agreed to a new 5 year with an option for 10. As far as the Coyotes are concerned with Portland if I was to bet on it I would say that they swap with the Panthers and go to San Antonio.

 

[JungleJON]

I don't understand why everyone insists Portland will move. If it was going to happen it would of when all the drama over the lease was happening last year not after they agreed to a new 5 year with an option for 10. As far as the Coyotes are concerned with Portland if I was to bet on it I would say that they swap with the Panthers and go to San Antonio.

Didn't say Portland would move, but DID say that their NHL affiliate would be one to switch their AHL farm team. I think Glens Falls, Utica, Binghampton, Worcester, Springfield, Norfolk, OKA City and maybe Albany would be the best best for losing their teams after all of the affiliate changes are made. Most of these teams are also in the bottom 10 in attendance in the AHL as well. But they would be good picks ups for the ECHL.

Let the negative comments begin!!!

 

[hkymnky]

Didn't say Portland would move, but DID say that their NHL affiliate would be one to switch their AHL farm team. I think Glens Falls, Utica, Binghampton, Worcester, Springfield, Norfolk, OKA City and maybe Albany would be the best best for losing their teams after all of the affiliate changes are made. Most of these teams are also in the bottom 10 in attendance in the AHL as well. But they would be good picks ups for the ECHL.

Let the negative comments begin!!!

This thread makes me really miss the Minor League Hockey Death Pool, which was put together by HF Board user Hans a number of years ago.

I don't have a strong recollection of Hans's methodology, but based on my own number crunching I'd put Glens Falls, Manchester, Saint John's, and Worcester on the "endangered" list.

Meanwhile Albany, Hamilton, Hartford, Oklahoma City, Springfield, and Utica are all on my "watch" list.

HOWEVER not all of these teams will end up heading west. Unless they are sold (which is a possibility) the Saint John's, Hamilton, Hartford and Albany FRANCHISES (not markets) are likely to stay somewhere close to their parent organizations.

This leaves Glens Falls, Manchester, Worcester, Oklahoma City, Springfield and Utica as prime candidates for the westward migration.

Manchester is owned by LA who also owns the Ontario Reign, and Worcester is own by San Jose. Worcester is a chronic under performer at the gate, and LA has telegraphed their intentions from 3000 miles away. I suspect both teams will be the first to move.

Adirondack (Glens Falls) and Utica are also owned by western teams, but neither team has been in their current location for more than a season. While its possible they could move next year, I wouldn't be surprised if they formed a "second wave".

This leaves Oklahoma City and Springfield. Oklahoma City has been a major disappointment at the gate, and I can only assume the team is hemorrhaging money. Springfield's financial struggles have been well documented, and its current ownership has gone on record stating that they need help.

Currently Anaheim and Arizona are the two teams without AHL franchises agitating for farm teams closer to home. I have my doubts about Arizona being able to buy a franchise, but I could see Anaheim buying a team and moving them out west.

I haven't heard much coming from Colorado, but they could also be a factor. However if they opt to buy an AHL team that could leave one of the western teams (ie Arizona) on the outside looking in.

Obviously this doesn't take into account NHL teams selling their AHL teams, which could change things significantly...but at this point I'm more inclined to see NHL teams holding on to their AHL franchises. I don't think we will ever see all 30 AHL teams owned by NHL clubs, but the league is already close to 50% NHL ownership and I don't see that trend changing any time soon.

 

[Hoodaha]

Okc

The OKC franchise would probably be moved to Bakersfield. Bakersfield is owned by the Oilers and draws many more fans per game.

Bakersfield: 4,859 fans/game
OKC: 3,348 fans/game

With Ontario joining the AHL, Bakersfield is easy for travel.

Bakersfield is a reasonably quick drive to LAX, where there are direct flights to Edmonton.

Presumably, San Jose and Anaheim get teams in California too (Stockton/San Diego/Fresno?), setting up a pretty good, easy base of travel for the AHL west...

 

[Thunder God]

More News that i found

http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=134723

 

[JungleJON]

More News that i found

http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=134723

AUSTIN ICE BATS????

With the internet, how come people have seemed to dumb downed.

 

[GindyDraws]

More News that i found

http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=2&ArticleID=134723

The 16-team AHL?!

Either these people don't do their research, or they are talking out of the other end.

 

[Hoodaha]

Not to mention

Not to mention that they say that the CHL's Austin Ice Bats could become Dallas' AHL team. Dallas already has the Texas Stars (which they just announced that they are buying). Very badly edited and researched article.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Two good points



By no means are Arizona and Portland joined at the hip...its just frustrating how often people seem to confuse an affiliation with outright ownership. Portland has been doing the affiliation hustle for a number of years now since ending their longstanding affiliation with the Capitals almost ten years ago.

I suspect they'll manage to find a partner by the time the music stops. While Portland will always be a smaller market in the AHL, I think they have the right combination of assets to get through the turbulent times ahead. Last season was very touch and go, but I'm more optimistic about the future of the Pirates than I've been in a long time.



Ultimately the prospective ECHL/CHL merger and the westward movement of AHL franchises is going to have a very big impact on the minor league hockey landscape. As you said, I could easily see markets "stepping up" to AAA or "stepping down" to AA, A, or Junior.

The challenge is going to be geography. I could see Oklahoma City rejoining the AA ranks in a unified ECHL/CHL, but Manchester may have a harder time finding a place as it is well outside the combined league's footprint.

For all we know there could be even more pieces waiting to fall into place. All I do know is that if all these rumors are true (and there's certainly a lot of smoke), its going to be a very interesting year.

Didn't ya know, the ECHL footprint is world wide? Manchester and or many of the NE or NY teams will not support the ECHL. What's the deal about this league anyway? No better than D3 college hockey and the games will yawn you to sleep.

 

[JungleJON]

Didn't ya know, the ECHL footprint is world wide? Manchester and or many of the NE or NY teams will not support the ECHL. What's the deal about this league anyway? No better than D3 college hockey and the games will yawn you to sleep.

I was waiting for you to post on this subject - have you been on vacation Sunshine?

 

[JB51Hockey]

Didn't ya know, the ECHL footprint is world wide? Manchester and or many of the NE or NY teams will not support the ECHL. What's the deal about this league anyway? No better than D3 college hockey and the games will yawn you to sleep.

Way off. It's higher quality than D3 and even D1 and every ECHL team could beat every major junior team in a game. It's not as intense but these guys are matured.