Post-Game Talk: Ducks @Perds 7 pm CST Hunting for a 1st OA...

[LCPreds]

New plan. I’m leaving the arena the next time we go up by 2 goals.

 

[101st_fan]

I thought he had a great game tonight and that he looked great on the Forsberg-OReilly line early in the season. Forsberg was on a cold streak shooting so we gave up on it but I think that line was really quite good.

The way I justify it though is we’re losing almost every game now and consistently blowing leads. We saw last year that the younger guys can step up given the opportunity yet we seem to have reverted back to the veteran first, effort over skill mindset that failed us miserably last season. We’re not winning anything with the current roster so why not focus on developing for the future. What’s the worst that could happen? End up in the bottom of the standings?

He looked so good on that line that he played himself off of it. That line is performing in its current configuration. The same goes for Sherwood playing instead of Tomasino alongside Evangalista and Novak (when healthy). It performed better after the personnel move ... empirical data shows it.

Where Pärssinen looked best tonight was with Smith and Foudy when all three were playing a strong game down low. He still can't win a face off consistently which is why he was intended to play wing this season. No fact supports him on the top line. Only your desires do.

 

[Adz]

Is ESPN using fake crowd noise? There was a huge cheer for the Ducks goal and I know there's not that many Ducks fans there, plus Weekes said "the Ducks goal stuns the crowd here in Nashville"

Unfortunately no. There were enough fans that you could hear when they scored. But it really didn't stun me except on a "this is happening again" note. I've become kind of used to it. But I had a good time.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I thought he had a great game tonight and that he looked great on the Forsberg-OReilly line early in the season. Forsberg was on a cold streak shooting so we gave up on it but I think that line was really quite good.

The way I justify it though is we’re losing almost every game now and consistently blowing leads. We saw last year that the younger guys can step up given the opportunity yet we seem to have reverted back to the veteran first, effort over skill mindset that failed us miserably last season. We’re not winning anything with the current roster so why not focus on developing for the future. What’s the worst that could happen? End up in the bottom of the standings?

We've heard Trotz discuss wanting to bring in vets with a "winning mentality" and saw him shitcan players like Johansen and Duchene who we all pegged as being part of the "country club" we bemoaned for years. Handing out ice time and roles based on age and draft pedigree is completely at odds with that. Vets are starting to get priority because all the younger players outside of Novak and Evangelista are doing nothing with their opportunities.

The worst that could happen is we create an environment of entitlement and where players gain and expect to get ice time based on factors other than filling their role and producing. That type of culture is one where the youngsters aren't going to bust their ass to get better ice time, power play time, first line duties, etc... and their development stagnates as a result.

 

[triggrman]

So demote ROR from 1C to fit the dream of Pärssinen at center AND on the top line?

What the staff needs to do is end this experiment of Pärssinen at center and follow their pre-season gut to play him at wing. Let him bang on the boards and cycle ... let him carry the puck to the front of the net ... keep him away from the dot (entered the night at 37% ... his 3 for 10 tonight isn't going to help that).

Nyquist for all of your complaints is getting points and contributing.

Age and/or experience isn't keeping anyone off of the ice. Evangalista is the youngest player on the current roster, still Norris eligible with only 25 games prior to this season, and getting 2nd line minutes at ES plus PP time because he is executing. Pärssinen had goals in the first two games, nothing since, and his ice time has reduced as a result.

Norris eligible?

 

[101st_fan]

Norris eligible?

Calder .... brain wandering while trying to figure out how this team blows three consecutive two goal leads.

Maybe we should try him at defense and let Josi be the top six forward.

With the way this team is playing I used an IR slot on my fantasy team to pick up Ingram. Better win percentage.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

I had a question watching the game last night. On the Gudas goal where he just waltzed down center ice...who is responsible for him? It looks like maybe Smith was trailing, but then left him and moved to puck support. Was that an error by Smith or should someone have rotated over to take him as he came into the zone?

 

[Predsanddead24]

We've heard Trotz discuss wanting to bring in vets with a "winning mentality" and saw him shitcan players like Johansen and Duchene who we all pegged as being part of the "country club" we bemoaned for years. Handing out ice time and roles based on age and draft pedigree is completely at odds with that. Vets are starting to get priority because all the younger players outside of Novak and Evangelista are doing nothing with their opportunities.

The worst that could happen is we create an environment of entitlement and where players gain and expect to get ice time based on factors other than filling their role and producing. That type of culture is one where the youngsters aren't going to bust their ass to get better ice time, power play time, first line duties, etc... and their development stagnates as a result.

I just don't really see how having younger guys watch our vets and effort guys blow leads from the bench or the press box is building a winning mentality. It seems to me we're punishing the young guys heavily for any mistake but the vets aren't held to the same standard.

The first line is scoring goals but has had some horrendous play in our zone. The final goal last night was the result of a lost puck battle by Carrier, followed by a turnover to the middle of the ice by O'Reilly, and then Nyquist is stuck in no man lands leaving his point guy wide open who scores the goal. There were numerous d-zone breakdowns by them in the Jets game too even though that line did score some goals. Our effort guys aren't doing much of anything either. Smith, McCarron, and Foudy all had a lazy backcheck and covered no one on the second goal. That's not to say our younger players are perfect. For example, Evangelista went and stood on his X and covered no one on their first goal. He got two shifts after that where he got to see the rest of our team blow the lead. Smith, McCarron, and Foudy all got as much or more ice time than Evangelista after the game was tied too. It just seems to me that we hold the young guys to a much higher standard than our vets and that just builds resentment not a winning mindset.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I had a question watching the game last night. On the Gudas goal where he just waltzed down center ice...who is responsible for him? It looks like maybe Smith was trailing, but then left him and moved to puck support. Was that an error by Smith or should someone have rotated over to take him as he came into the zone?

I said this in the comment I just posted but to me it was overall lazy backchecking and a bunch of guys not really covering anyone. Foudy is the first one up the ice so should probably take Gudas but he's also trying to cover the guy coming up the far post. The guy in center ice should be the higher priority though. McCarron and Smith both stopped skating once they hit the redline and didn't cover anyone either. McCarron really should have been busting his ass to get back into the play but didn't and instead just stands in open ice. Smith could have recognized that Foudy was drifting out and tried to take Gudas too. Smith's responsibility is his point guy so he wasn't necessarily wrong but he should have recognized Foudy misplayed it and tried to cover for him since his man on the point wasn't a threat in the play at all. Plus, Smith ends up just drifting and not covering the point man anyways.

For the guys who supposedly do the little things right it was really a display of why that isn't true. Just because you skate hard doesn't mean you're doing the right thing.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I just don't really see how having younger guys watch our vets and effort guys blow leads from the bench or the press box is building a winning mentality. It seems to me we're punishing the young guys heavily for any mistake but the vets aren't held to the same standard.

The first line is scoring goals but has had some horrendous play in our zone. The final goal last night was the result of a lost puck battle by Carrier, followed by a turnover to the middle of the ice by O'Reilly, and then Nyquist is stuck in no man lands leaving his point guy wide open who scores the goal. There were numerous d-zone breakdowns by them in the Jets game too even though that line did score some goals. Our effort guys aren't doing much of anything either. Smith, McCarron, and Foudy all had a lazy backcheck and covered no one on the second goal. That's not to say our younger players are perfect. For example, Evangelista went and stood on his X and covered no one on their first goal. He got two shifts after that where he got to see the rest of our team blow the lead. Smith, McCarron, and Foudy all got as much or more ice time than Evangelista after the game was tied too. It just seems to me that we hold the young guys to a much higher standard than our vets and that just builds resentment not a winning mindset.

The top line has had some godawful defensive shifts the last few games. Like truly abysmal, and I tbh would never have expected that from O'Reilly. But people who are bothered at all about "gifting" ice-time to players who are taking shortcuts and not paying attention to detail, then those guys should be right up there at the head of the class lately. That's just the old country club double standard back in action.

And it's not like we need to ask for the moon here. Just... they maybe don't need to play 21 or 23 minutes a night? Maybe their lax defensive play is partly down to just being overused? Maybe before we sit down kids for the same mistakes, there could be some recognition of this? I don't think ANYBODY really needs to be punished here. 18-19 mins is fine for the #1 line, they aren't McDavid and Draisatl. And a mistake here or there by one of our top young prospects is something they can talk about in the video room after the game, it's not really productive for us as a rebuilding team to have our best young players sitting down. If we're just going to lose games anyway by having the veterans making the same mistakes?

 

[Predsanddead24]

The top line has had some godawful defensive shifts the last few games. Like truly abysmal, and I tbh would never have expected that from O'Reilly. But people who are bothered at all about "gifting" ice-time to players who are taking shortcuts and not paying attention to detail, then those guys should be right up there at the head of the class lately. That's just the old country club double standard back in action.

And it's not like we need to ask for the moon here. Just... they maybe don't need to play 21 or 23 minutes a night? Maybe their lax defensive play is partly down to just being overused? Maybe before we sit down kids for the same mistakes, there could be some recognition of this? I don't think ANYBODY really needs to be punished here. 18-19 mins is fine for the #1 line, they aren't McDavid and Draisatl. And a mistake here or there by one of our top young prospects is something they can talk about in the video room after the game, it's not really productive for us as a rebuilding team to have our best young players sitting down. If we're just going to lose games anyway by having the veterans making the same mistakes?

Yep exactly my point. I'm not saying bench O'Reilly, Forsberg, or Nyquist but maybe recognize that they are just as much to blame for us losing recently and reassess how you are dishing out minutes. Same goes for all of our depth guys. Trenin has 0 points this season and has the third highest 5 v 5 TOI on the team. He did get scratched but came back last night and got his usual allotment of ice time. Cole Smith hasn't had a point in ten games yet is immune to getting scratched. Even Sissons is on a 5 game pointless streak and hasn't been great defensively either.

If we were even a .500 team right now I'd see the argument that we stick with how we are dishing out ice time, but we've lost 6 of our last 7 and are one of the worst teams in hockey. Maybe the young guys aren't the answer but what we are currently doing also isn't the answer and has the added detriment of not even getting younger guys experience.

 

[wmupreds]

At a certain point the counting stat production becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Nyquist for example is 9th on the team in P/60 at 5v5.. and has yet to score a 5v5 goal.. and remains stapled to the top line. Maybe it's just me but outside of a fairly straightforward PP assist last night I thought he looked terrible.

Yes that p/60 is ahead of some of the younger guys still, but he's also playing with the top producers in both rate and totals on the team which clearly makes a difference.

It's not really about dumping on him specifically but the idea that we need a 34yo with very average production eating up premium minutes is just flawed to me and the play isn't really backing it up.

 

[ShagDaddy]

Maybe it’s time to come to the realization that the best young players currently on the Preds roster just aren’t very good.

 

[Predsanddead24]

At a certain point the counting stat production becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Nyquist for example is 9th on the team in P/60 at 5v5.. and has yet to score a 5v5 goal.. and remains stapled to the top line. Maybe it's just me but outside of a fairly straightforward PP assist last night I thought he looked terrible.

Yes that p/60 is ahead of some of the younger guys still, but he's also playing with the top producers in both rate and totals on the team which clearly makes a difference.

It's not really about dumping on him specifically but the idea that we need a 34yo with very average production eating up premium minutes is just flawed to me and the play isn't really backing it up.

I really think the comparison to Granlund for Nyquist is a pretty good one. His numbers look ok because of his minutes and linemates and he does make some nice plays occasionally. He isn't a bad player but he also isn't great and most importantly is almost certainly not going to be a key piece for this team moving forward. Because of that and given our current results it just seems sort of pointless to have him on the top line. My choice would be to put a young player on the top line (Parsinnen or maybe Evangelista while Novak is out) and then pair Nyquist with a younger player too.

Maybe it’s time to come to the realization that the best young players currently on the Preds roster just aren’t very good.

Certainly possible, but they did ok when we had to lean on them last year. Novak is certainly the best of our young guys (to the extent he still counts as young) but is unfortunately now injured. Evangelista still looks pretty good to me although he is still struggling defensively and with his finishing. Parsinnen has had his struggles too but he still often has those flashes where he looks like he could be a great power forward type. Tomasino jury is definitely still out, but as I'm sure everyone is tired of me saying I don't think we've handled well over the last month. Glass seems to have regressed for sure but maybe the injury gives him a bit of an excuse of why he's struggled to find his footing.

 

[wmupreds]

Maybe it’s time to come to the realization that the best young players currently on the Preds roster just aren’t very good.

Maybe so. On the other hand quality of teammates makes a huge difference.

What we are doing is clearly not working. I would propose giving Evangelista some time with ROR and Forsberg now that the 2nd line chemistry is broken up anyway. Clearly no need to demote those guys as they are still producing. Vange has produced so you're not rewarding anyone for poor play.

Slide Tomasino and/or Parssinen into legitimate scoring roles and see what they can do. At this point below the top line it's hard to argue that line shuffling is really "rewarding" anyone. Most of the forwards on the team aren't doing anything of note to be concerned about optics of cutting their ice time.

Tomasino and Parssinen at least have some history from last year of production when put in higher roles, if they get a chance this year and can't hack it then we have a better perspective going forward.

Consider that at 5v5 last year our 4th, 5th and 6th point producers per 60 were Duchene, Tolvanen and Nino. All gone. Nobody that we added has stepped into those production roles except ROR.

It would be great if a young guy asserted himself on lower lines and truly forced his way into higher ice time. But at this point I'm failing to see who is really killing it among the vets that would be getting such a raw deal with a TOI cut outside of ROR and Forsberg.