GDT: Draft Lotto - Rollin for Nolan. 8(ish)PM. DEVILS PICK 1ST OVERALL

[Blender]

Of course it's close, but I put less stock into someone who has their draft stock increase significantly over 6 months or so compared to someone who has steadily been performing for a couple of years. Don't get me wrong I'd be happy with either, but there is a lot more risk inherent in picking Hischier than in Patrick in my opinion.

 

[Lou is God]

Or get this people like him because they like how he plays. I mean that kind of statement is already kind of rich considering that some of you have barely watched him play if at all. And you are aware guys that have their stock boosted in their draft year still turn out to be good as to where they are drafted. Guys like Bob McKenzie have said it's a virtual dead heat between NHL scouts but yes someone who likes him is just about hype

Make note I said "some" and if we are making a judgement on a player some of us have barley watched, what about the ones who want him and have also barely watched him play?

That's who I'm referring too.

And I'm not selling this Nico kid short either because it makes me sick to my stomach that the Flyers will most likely grab him, as if our division wasn't tough enough as it is.

 

[R8Devs]

That's fair but it's not like Nico came out of nowhere. He was playing in the NLA/NLB(professional leagues) as a 16-17 year old. He was also considered as a potential top-5 pick even before the WJC. I also don't see someone rising a lot as that much of a risk if he's played a lot of games, Hischier's played around 80 games this year. So it's not like there hasn't been a ton of exposure to him.

Either way I'm happy with both I just think some of the arguments consistently used against Hischier are not really that grounded

 

[Stephen Gionta]

If Patrick was healthy, he would be the easy choice for #1 overall. His injury luck is bound to take a turn here at some point. Pick Nolan Patrick and don't look back.

 

[Blender]

That's fair but it's not like Nico came out of nowhere. He was playing in the NLA/NLB(professional leagues) as a 16-17 year old. He was also considered as a potential top-5 pick even before the WJC. I also don't see someone rising a lot as that much of a risk if he's played a lot of games, Hischier's played around 80 games this year. So it's not like there hasn't been a ton of exposure to him.

Either way I'm happy with both I just think some of the arguments consistently used against Hischier are not really that grounded

My biggest concern with Hischier, from what I have seen of course, is that he's overly reliant on his speed. Some have turned this around into a positive by saying he's a drifter that always recovers defensively because he's fast, but that isn't going to work in the NHL. Maybe he'll be able to adjust and become a much better positional player, but right now he isn't. It often makes for better highlight packages than a player like Patrick who is just quietly always in the right position, but I personally prefer the latter to the former.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

My biggest concern with Hischier, from what I have seen of course, is that he's overly reliant on his speed. Some have turned this around into a positive by saying he's a drifter that always recovers defensively because he's fast, but that isn't going to work in the NHL. Maybe he'll be able to adjust and become a much better positional player, but right now he isn't. It often makes for better highlight packages than a player like Patrick who is just quietly always in the right position, but I personally prefer the latter to the former.

To you, scouts say differently and say he is responsible defensively.

 

[NJDevs26]

Other day I was wondering if some in pro-Nico camp might be there because they're disappointed to have the #1 overall and knowing that Patrick is no generational talent like Matthews and McDavid and hoping that Nico might turn into that, mostly because his stock is rising and relatively unknown as compared to Patrick.

There's a little of that that but I think it's more a style bias than anything else. The most common refrain from the Hischler backers is he's more suited to the 'new NHL' being small and quick while Patrick's more of an old NHL pick, which is myopic cause it's not like there aren't big centers in the league that can play and small guys that can't.

 

[Blender]

To you, scouts say differently and say he is responsible defensively.

Everything that I've read and seen is that he's responsible in his own zone when the play is there, but that he often has to bust his ass to get back and that has lead to some fatigue issues in a lot of games and during the season. A player that has to skate that hard that often isn't in the right positions to begin with. It's not that he isn't responsible defensively in defensive situations, it's that I don't see him reading transitions very well but he uses his speed to make up for it.

The transition game is the new NHL, that's how you win these days. I don't think Hischier's positioning in all three zones is good enough for the NHL transition game at this time.

 

[R8Devs]

wrong thread

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Everything that I've read and seen is that he's responsible in his own zone when the play is there, but that he often has to bust his ass to get back and that has lead to some fatigue issues in a lot of games and during the season. A player that has to skate that hard that often isn't in the right positions to begin with. It's not that he isn't responsible defensively in defensive situations, it's that I don't see him reading transitions very well but he uses his speed to make up for it.

Lol okay.

 

[Blender]

Lol okay.

Nice response.

As I added to the post, the NHL is all about the transition game now. Being in the right position at all times is hugely important, and at the NHL level the game is just too fast for anyone to make up for that on a regular basis.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Nice response.

As I added to the post, the NHL is all about the transition game now. Being in the right position at all times is hugely important, and at the NHL level the game is just too fast for anyone to make up for that on a regular basis.

Care to show the scouting reports on Nico that you have read btw?

Wonderful, no one is going to be in the right position all the time, and it will be even harder for a player with injury issues to do so when they are constantly on the IR,

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Care to show the scouting reports on Nico that you have read btw?

Wonderful, no one is going to be in the right position all the time, and it will be even harder for a player with injury issues to do so when they are constantly on the IR,

Good to know that you know, for certain, that Patrick will be on IR frequently and Nico, for certain, will never be on IR.

I get being concerned with Patrick's durability, but does Taylor Hall's health keep you up at night? Or Zacha's? Because I'm genuinely more concerned with those guys that have multiple knee injuries and concussions respectively.

 

[NJ07102]

The most common refrain from the Hischler backers is he's more suited to the 'new NHL' being small and quick while Patrick's more of an old NHL pick....

Hischier is the same size as McDavid and bigger than Crosby, both of which are pretty capable NHLers as far as I know. The size difference between Hischier and Patrick is roughly the same as the difference between Sid and Hischier. So what does size mean really?
The biggest difference is the weight. Nico definitely has to fill out his frame, which for me would mean he'll spend another year in the Q whereas Patrick would jump in right away.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Hischier is the same size as McDavid and bigger than Crosby, both of which are pretty capable NHLers as far as I know. The size difference between Hischier and Patrick is roughly the same as the difference between Sid and Hischier. So what does size mean really?
The biggest difference is the weight. Nico definitely has to fill out his frame, which for me would mean he'll spend another year in the Q whereas Patrick would jump in right away.

This doesn't make sense. He's 1 inch taller than Sid (if his listed height is even accurate -- heights in sports are notoriously inaccurate) and 25 pounds (at least) lighter. Sid has a freakishly strong lower half. Patrick is 20+ pounds heavier and 3 inches taller than Nico. That's a big difference and they're both likely going to add size.

 

[NJ07102]

This doesn't make sense. He's 1 inch taller than Sid (if his listed height is even accurate -- heights in sports are notoriously inaccurate) and 25 pounds (at least) lighter. Sid has a freakishly strong lower half. Patrick is 20+ pounds heavier and 3 inches taller than Nico. That's a big difference and they're both likely going to add size.

That's what I meant: Hischier is larger than Crosby and Sid is doing pretty well. There is no reason to think Hischiers size is gonna be a problem once he adds weight.

 

[Lou is God]

That's what I meant: Hischier is larger than Crosby and Sid is doing pretty well. There is no reason to think Hischiers size is gonna be a problem once he adds weight.

A 15 year-old Crosby was out muscling 17 and 18 year-olds in the Juniors, he's always been strong, if Hischier is not doing that NOW while he's 18 years-old, then that's why it's a bad comparison.

 

[Unknown Caller]

A 15 year-old Crosby was out muscling 17 and 18 year-olds in the Juniors, he's always been strong, if Hischier is not doing that NOW while he's 18 years-old, then that's why it's a bad comparison.

Who says Hischier doesn't outmuscle players? Have you even watched his tape or read scouting reports? He's a very strong player and is effective in the dirty areas of the ice.

 

[Lou is God]

Who says Hischier doesn't outmuscle players? Have you even watched his tape or read scouting reports? He's a very strong player and is effective in the dirty areas of the ice.

Very strong? Com'on dude, first off, yes I have seen his tape and read his reports and neither suggest or say he's very strong and I don't think it's all that important that he does at this moment or that he be the strongest player on the ice.

Second, if there is one constant in those reports on the con side is that he needs to add muscle, some even suggest he's not the strongest player on the ice but like I said, he doesn't need to be, it's not what he will bring to that ice or is it important that he does like it is for Patrick.

BUT is a battler and will fight for the puck, but don't confuse that with being very strong or suggest Nico is on par with Crosby when it comes to strength.

Be fair when analyzing these kids upside and downside, not stretch like suggesting Patrick is comparable to Schenn or Nico to Crosby. There are going to be some areas Patrick is better than Nico at and vice versa.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Just to chime in on what I think this argument is about lol

Nolan's size is often seen as a deciding factor, such as if all things are equal you take the bigger center (they're both centers by the way). But what I find, and maybe I'm out to lunch, is that when people make this argument the wording almost infers that Nico is some shrimp. He's an average height and and will fill out his frame over time, he's still a teen. The disparity between the two players' size is not nearly big enough to be much of a factor for me. How they use their size, sure. But not that one is a few inches taller and weighs more.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

I honestly don't care who the Devils pick. I trust management and scouting to make the right decision. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy.

 

[Zippy316]

Hischier's size isn't a problem. He plays like Elias and they're almost identical in size. Didn't stop Elias from being an effective player.

Plus keep in mind that height/weight for prospects at this age is not accurate at all. A lot of variance from website to website and some kids are still growing throughout the year.

Seems like people have run out of things to say in a Patrick vs. Hischier debate now.

 

[MadDevil]

Hischier's size isn't a problem.

He plays like Elias and they're almost identical in size. Didn't stop Elias from being an effective player.

Seems like people have run out of things to say in a Patrick vs. Hischier debate now.

We'll be debating their body language by the time June 23rd rolls around.

 

[Lou is God]

Just to chime in on what I think this argument is about lol

For me it's not that his size he a problem, I think I made that clear, I'm saying comparing Nico to Crosby when it comes to strength or size is nonsensical because Crosby is a freak of nature in how strong he was/is for his size.

 

[Cheddabombs]

For me it's not that his size he a problem, I think I made that clear, I'm saying comparing Nico to Crosby when it comes to strength or size is nonsensical because Crosby is a freak of nature in how strong he was/is for his size.

Ah okay, my bad. I knew it started about Crosby but thought it was about Hischier's size in general.