Muleskinner said:
Don't worry, though. These guys are doing it for the next generation of players -- grinding the league's revenues down to bare-bones, just for them.
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Don't worry, though. These guys are doing it for the next generation of players -- grinding the league's revenues down to bare-bones, just for them.
Muleskinner
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Cully9 said:Don't worry, though. These guys are doing it for the next generation of players -- grinding the league's revenues down to bare-bones, just for them.
Yep, the greedy....... Man, this day was nothing but a giant kick in the nads to me. It started out like the nightmare was over, but they stepped in to pull the rug out from under me again. I am just pissed right now.
I'm now starting to feel like the PA did all this just as a stunt to embarrass the league media wise by leaking all this "deal is done" crap. The hell with the fans like us following this stupid garbage and our feelings.
You know what? The hell with them.
how do you mean?Spezza said:
as the lockout continues, the nhl receive less revenue from tv, so they'll offer less to the nhlpa. i dont see how that is not negotiating in good faith.
If you shrunk the league back to the original six (20% of the league) and you kept the top 20% salaried players, last year's payroll numbers for those players would exceed the revenues of the six teams. The problem isn't as simple as merely "let's get rid of the small market teams".
One of the problems is that they spent so long trying to get the NHLPA to acknowledge they had been losing serious money (Dec 9th, 24% rollback after years of discussions). Another was that they couldn't get on the same page philosophically until the past week. The NHLPA really haven't had much time to collectively digest and work out the nuts and bolts of the recent system that came up in negotiation - a cap. Like me, some of you could come up with something quickly but you have to get everyone understanding and agreeing on what you've come up with. It takes time.
The arguing went on too long and there wasn't time to get a quick understanding given the mistrust of the owners by the players.
Under last years revenues, the NHLPA agreed to set the starting bar at $33 mil team payroll average ($44 mil - 24% rollback). A $45 mil cap is disproportionate to the revenues when you look at the caps of the NBA (!.5 times NHL revenue) and the NFL (2.5 times NHL revenue). That's not the end of the world but you have to make sure that the teams average payrolls don't do what the NFL and NBA payrolls do : average out to the cap number because the NHL can't afford it. The only way to do that systemically is to restrict revenue sharing or taxes going back into the payroll system - keep them low. The players complained when they owners did that yesterday thinking they were ripping them off. In fact, the owners are trying to stay alive.
To me, unfortunately and with tremendous disappointment, they found out that they are grappling with a problem that isn't dead simple for an uneducated hockey player to get their heads around. It all got left too late with the bickering in negotiations.
Nuking 6 small market NHL teams will cost the league about $100 mil each to buy them out. So it is a costly fix. Players salaries will have to be even lower proportionate to revenue to pay for it. And you'll only move the bar a little on the average team payroll onve you've done that - along with all the lost hockey jobs.
It's great that they got closer philosophically. But the NHLPA hasn't been playing with cap numbers for 3 years - only for a few days. They ran out of time getting their heads around the problem and a common understanding. That's all. It's a sad time.
One of the problems is that they spent so long trying to get the NHLPA to acknowledge they had been losing serious money (Dec 9th, 24% rollback after years of discussions). Another was that they couldn't get on the same page philosophically until the past week. The NHLPA really haven't had much time to collectively digest and work out the nuts and bolts of the recent system that came up in negotiation - a cap. Like me, some of you could come up with something quickly but you have to get everyone understanding and agreeing on what you've come up with. It takes time.
The arguing went on too long and there wasn't time to get a quick understanding given the mistrust of the owners by the players.
Under last years revenues, the NHLPA agreed to set the starting bar at $33 mil team payroll average ($44 mil - 24% rollback). A $45 mil cap is disproportionate to the revenues when you look at the caps of the NBA (!.5 times NHL revenue) and the NFL (2.5 times NHL revenue). That's not the end of the world but you have to make sure that the teams average payrolls don't do what the NFL and NBA payrolls do : average out to the cap number because the NHL can't afford it. The only way to do that systemically is to restrict revenue sharing or taxes going back into the payroll system - keep them low. The players complained when they owners did that yesterday thinking they were ripping them off. In fact, the owners are trying to stay alive.
To me, unfortunately and with tremendous disappointment, they found out that they are grappling with a problem that isn't dead simple for an uneducated hockey player to get their heads around. It all got left too late with the bickering in negotiations.
Nuking 6 small market NHL teams will cost the league about $100 mil each to buy them out. So it is a costly fix. Players salaries will have to be even lower proportionate to revenue to pay for it. And you'll only move the bar a little on the average team payroll onve you've done that - along with all the lost hockey jobs.
It's great that they got closer philosophically. But the NHLPA hasn't been playing with cap numbers for 3 years - only for a few days. They ran out of time getting their heads around the problem and a common understanding. That's all. It's a sad time.
Last edited:
me2
Go ahead foot
Nuking teams hurts the players pay even though it lifts the average payroll.
For extreme example lets kill off 28 teams and leave us with the two biggest spenders, NYR and Det, at about $80m. Average payroll to $80m. Average salary $3.5m or there abouts. Must be good for the individuals, right? No it the opposite.
If Brodeur and Khabibulin are the two goalies, how much do Belfour, Luongo, Theodore get as backups? One teams defense might be that of Pronger, Neidermayer, Jovo, Gonchar,Lidstrom, McCabe? Is McCabe going to get $5m playing 6th Dman when the team's average salary is just $3.5m? Hell no!
And then think what this does this do the other 28 teams worth of players who are out of jobs?
More teams = more spots for stars = better pay for elite players.
For extreme example lets kill off 28 teams and leave us with the two biggest spenders, NYR and Det, at about $80m. Average payroll to $80m. Average salary $3.5m or there abouts. Must be good for the individuals, right? No it the opposite.
If Brodeur and Khabibulin are the two goalies, how much do Belfour, Luongo, Theodore get as backups? One teams defense might be that of Pronger, Neidermayer, Jovo, Gonchar,Lidstrom, McCabe? Is McCabe going to get $5m playing 6th Dman when the team's average salary is just $3.5m? Hell no!
And then think what this does this do the other 28 teams worth of players who are out of jobs?
More teams = more spots for stars = better pay for elite players.
Splatman Phanutier said:
Actually, they're trying to maximize parity. A salary cap means a few wealthy teams can't buy up all the good players. Which means the talent pool will be spread more evenly, thus increasing parity. With more parity you have a more competetive and exciting product (like the NFL). A more exciting product equals more attendance and interest in the sport. More interest equals more endorsements. More endorsements and attendance equals more money for the owners. If the owners can't turn around and spend that money on players (due to the cap), then they either keep that money for themselves or they funnel it back into the team which only benefits the fans in the end.
Totally unrelated, but some what some people don't realize about small market teams is that a lot of the time it's not simply a lack of money that leads to low salaries. If I was a small market owner spending 30m with a theoretical max of 45m, under the current system I have no incentive to spend that 45m. Why not? Because no matter what I spend, the wealthy teams are going to be able to outbid me for the superstar players. Which means I only get a couple of 3rd liners at 3m a pop. If, however, there is a salary cap, then teams either continue to spend a ton on superstars but only get to have a few, in which case I gladly spend extra money to pick up good players that can't fit into the other team's budgets OR the general cost of the superstar player contracts come down and I can be competetive in the bidding process for good players. Either way, small market teams have incentives to spend as much as they can afford, up to the cap. Which gets back to parity, which is healthy for the league.
Muleskinner
Registered User
SuperKarateMonkey said:
Telling the PA the truth is never "negotiating in good-faith" if it isn't a reality they are prepared to deal with, YET.
Small market teams sell out their bulidings! In what league, not the NHL. Have you seen the attendence in Carolina, Pittsburgh, Washington, Atlanta, anaheim hell even the Islanders to name a few. They draw 12000-14000 at best. They have no business having a team if they cna't su[pport it financially.SerbianEagle said:
jb said:
Did you see my post!? The smallmarkets that cant sell the game are the bottom feeders of the NHL.. but really, are no different than huge markets convicted of the same thing! Whatabout huge markets like Chicago, and Boston, look at their capacity and you'll find out they're the same as the teams you mentioned.. Does that not go to show that something does need to be fixed, I think so.
People, it's not about the $2.5mil, its about a soft as can be NBA type cap at $49mil vs a hard NFL type cap at $42.5mil. That's a huge differene! Night and F***IN' day!
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