Doug McLean on the FAN590

[KingsFan7824]

The league just got too big, on so many levels. It's just such a mess. All parties involved might have broken it. We'll see how badly they broke it if, when, and how the league gets back to playing.

 

[SuperUnknown]

Right.
But the can live with 42.5 Million??????

You're talking an extra $2.5 million payroll advantage for those few teams that choose to use it?

Get real.

Many teams were unhappy at $42.5M already. There's a lot of teams that are unhappy going over $35M (for a cap)!

If the owners feel stretched at $42.5M, then the $2.5M IS a big deal. If you've got $1 in your pocket and you want something that's $1.01, then that $0.01 is a big deal to you because you can't have what you want without it. Everything is always relative to something else.

You don't seem to understand that if Detroit signs Datsyuk to $3M/year because they can, then all other young players will ask for Datsyuk's kind of money regardless of where they play? Why do you think players often get more than the 10% QO?

 

[Member 23807]

As I said on another thread, if the owners can't agree on a cap at $45M, the league is doomed in its present format. You can't expect teams that can afford almost double that to stay in a league with so many businesses that clearly aren't economically similar.

At least half the league would have no economic problem with a $45M cap. Maybe they should just break away at this point.

That's actually a very solid argument... unfortunately, it's something the league simply cannot pursue given the millions they got for selling those franchises to some of the owners.

PJStyles

 

[SuperUnknown]

That's actually a very solid argument... unfortunately, it's something the league simply cannot pursue given the millions they got for selling those franchises to some of the owners.

PJStyles

On the other hand, who's to say those teams could generate that kind of revenue while broken off the NHL? Also, who's to say the NHL wouldn't give rights to other individuals in the same cities to operate a team?

 

[The Legend]

You know who you can blame for no hockey?

Blame whatever team you support, and then add Dallas, NYR, Flyers, Detroit,Avs,Leafs,Canes and whoever else paid 3rd line pluggers 3-4 million a year or offered someone a 30mill siging bonus. Leave "small-markets" alone, because only they sell out their arenas and cover the behinds of those in NYR so at least some of the televised games appear sold out.

Last time I looked, the ONLY "small markets" selling out are Columbus and Minnesota. Toronto, Detroit, Colorado, Philly,NYR all have great attendence numbers.

In fact, the argument could be made, and I'll make it now, that the small market teams only get good attendence numbers in some games because the big markets like Toronto or Detroit come in and have a lot of their own fans from the area come to the games.

 

[grego]

Last time I looked, the ONLY "small markets" selling out are Columbus and Minnesota. Toronto, Detroit, Colorado, Philly,NYR all have great attendence numbers.

In fact, the argument could be made, and I'll make it now, that the small market teams only get good attendence numbers in some games because the big markets like Toronto or Detroit come in and have a lot of their own fans from the area come to the games.

Try checking the attendance in Edmonton the last few years, and then look at the capacity of the stadium. They are selling out in Edmonton. So small market teams do sell out

 

[Vagabond]

HOW MUCH do the owners need to be protected from themselves? DONT LET THE CAP BECOME A MAGNET. Are the owners really THAT Stupid they cant stop themselves from spending the cap limit? SERIOUSLY are the owners like 8 years old? The "Salary cap magnet" is the lamest excuse ive ever HEARD. These are fricken Grown men with billions yet the "allure" of a salary cap limit will suck them in to spending more? Give me a fricken break.

^^My answer to you is, yes. Teams like Detroit last year tried to buy a cup again and lost major money because of it. I think a hard cap at 45million would work, as long as there are major luxury taxes along with arbitrational rights not favoring only one side. The Oilers would do fine at a 45million cap. I think there's no better number actually. This coming from an Oilers fan; I think a cap at 32million is Pejorative Slured, but a cap at 45mil is healthy.

The Oilers had 100% capacity last year. Vancouver had 101% capacity. Calgary at 97%.. And was their first playoff run in seven years.. goes to show certain small market teams do well attendance wise. All the Canadian markets had around 100% capacity. Toronto had 103%. Montreal 100%, and Ottawa had the lowest at 96%. Yes, some small markets aren't doing well selling thge game, they're the real bottom feeders, not the likes of Edmonton, or Calgary. Why should Edmonton and Calgary have to loose out when they market their team better than most larger market teams.. Something has to be done to limit foolish spending from non caring rich owners, don't you people think?

 

[Muleskinner]

The league just got too big, on so many levels. It's just such a mess. All parties involved might have broken it. We'll see how badly they broke it if, when, and how the league gets back to playing.

No, its not that the league got too big. I know the NHL has expanded into markets it shouldnt have, but growth is what a major sport should do.

Its called miss managment. Bettman has been so occupied with expansion he never did some of the changes the game needed all along for the TV end. Only now has the league begun to look at something like adapting to the AHL style of play that fans love and would lead to a bigger TV ratings. They are like dinosaurs the way they move. There are big market teams that over spend and drive up player salaries and this has the players loving their free market.

I have been, and I still am an owner supporter in this. Even though I feel that the leadership on their end with Bettman has not performed in the right ways, a cap that the SMALLIST market teams can live with is whats in order to save this league.

 

[Muleskinner]

^^My answer to you is, yes. Teams like Detroit last year tried to buy a cup again and lost major money because of it. I think a hard cap at 45million would work, as long as there are major luxury taxes along with arbitrational rights not favoring only one side. The Oilers would do fine at a 45million cap. I think there's no better number actually. This coming from an Oilers fan; I think a cap at 32million is Pejorative Slured, but a cap at 45mil is healthy.

The Oilers had 100% capacity last year. Vancouver had 101% capacity. Calgary at 97%.. And was their first playoff run in seven years.. goes to show certain small market teams do well attendance wise. All the Canadian markets had around 100% capacity. Toronto had 103%. Montreal 100%, and Ottawa had the lowest at 96%. Yes, some small markets aren't doing well selling thge game, they're the real bottom feeders, not the likes of Edmonton, or Calgary. Why should Edmonton and Calgary have to loose out when they market their team better than most larger market teams.. Something has to be done to limit foolish spending from non caring rich owners, don't you people think?

Good post. The only thing I would add is that the league revenue is a sticking point in all of this. The revenue pie is only so big. TV dollars bring that revenue up and that is shrinking by the minute right now. I cant understand why the PA doesnt see this. The pie has shrunk now that the season is sunk, and it will only keep shrinking. They are lead by fools that dont care about the game or the players.

 

[Vagabond]

Good post. The only thing I would add is that the league revenue is a sticking point in all of this. The revenue pie is only so big. TV dollars bring that revenue up and that is shrinking by the minute right now. I cant understand why the PA doesnt see this. The pie has shrunk now that the season is sunk, and it will only keep shrinking. They are lead by fools that dont care about the game or the players.

^I hear ya, but.. unfortunately, they don't, nor do they care. At the expense of their greed, they could care less.. for the most part anyway. That's the way they make me feel.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Until the owners do meaningful revenue sharing I do not think theyre honest about anything. My take is that the only reason big market teams agreed to do a low cap is if they were guarenteed they would NOT have to revenue share with small market teams. This is the only reasonal explanation I can think of for no good revenue sharing ever being brought up or offered in this whole ordeal. My personal opinion is that if the NHL cant run off a 45 mill payroll theyre in deep crap regardless of getting the right payroll. Just seems kinda pathetic if it is in fact true that the NHL would need a 30-35 mill cap to just survive.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Right.
But the can live with 42.5 Million??????

You're talking an extra $2.5 million payroll advantage for those few teams that choose to use it?

Get real.

If 2.5 million isn't such a big deal, then why don't the NHLPA blow off 2.5 million off their offer?

Seriously, do all of you pro-PA people wipe your asses with $20 bills? If you don't, then why do you think the owners should? Call it a business, call it an investment, call it whatever, but if they are losing money, it is a problem. Heck, would any of you be ok if you lose 2.5 million? I get pissed when I have to pay a parking ticket!

 

[Phanuthier*]

HOW MUCH do the owners need to be protected from themselves? DONT LET THE CAP BECOME A MAGNET. Are the owners really THAT Stupid they cant stop themselves from spending the cap limit? SERIOUSLY are the owners like 8 years old? The "Salary cap magnet" is the lamest excuse ive ever HEARD. These are fricken Grown men with billions yet the "allure" of a salary cap limit will suck them in to spending more? Give me a fricken break.

Check out the other leagues

 

[vanlady]

Check out the other leagues

The other leagues hit there caps because they have the revenues. The NFL recieve enough from there TV money alone to cover the cap. Let's see if the NHL doesn't have the revenue, don't spend

 

[vanlady]

If 2.5 million isn't such a big deal, then why don't the NHLPA blow off 2.5 million off their offer?

Seriously, do all of you pro-PA people wipe your asses with $20 bills? If you don't, then why do you think the owners should? Call it a business, call it an investment, call it whatever, but if they are losing money, it is a problem. Heck, would any of you be ok if you lose 2.5 million? I get pissed when I have to pay a parking ticket!

Here's a novel idea for the owners, if you don't have it don't spend it. A cap will only lower the disparity in payrolls. Now instead of having a 50 million dollar difference between the lowest and highest payroll you will only have a 20 million dollar difference. That alone will allow small market teams compete.

 

[Phanuthier*]

The other leagues hit there caps because they have the revenues. The NFL recieve enough from there TV money alone to cover the cap. Let's see if the NHL doesn't have the revenue, don't spend

Have you ever gone into a casino saying "I'm only going to spend $20 and nothing more" and walk out having blown $35?

Thats the mentality of the cap. The pressure of things like the "extra push" or the enticing UFA or the extra 500,000 needed to get (say, Kipruoff) signed will push teams to their limit.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Here's a novel idea for the owners, if you don't have it don't spend it. A cap will only lower the disparity in payrolls. Now instead of having a 50 million dollar difference between the lowest and highest payroll you will only have a 20 million dollar difference. That alone will allow small market teams compete.

Huh? That post made absolutely no sense.

Whats this novel idea? And how does the 20 million difference make allow for all teams to be competitive?

 

[vanlady]

Have you ever gone into a casino saying "I'm only going to spend $20 and nothing more" and walk out having blown $35?

Thats the mentality of the cap. The pressure of things like the "extra push" or the enticing UFA or the extra 500,000 needed to get (say, Kipruoff) signed will push teams to their limit.

Actually I don't like casinos. I don't spend what I can't afford and I never gamble on something that I can't predict the outcome.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Check out the other leagues

I honestly dont care about the other leagues, if an owner doesn't know how to set up a budget WITH a salary cap, thats worse than not setting a budget WITHOUT one. If theyre so stupid that they cant realise they can only spend 30 million and not 42 or 45 or whatever number would be agreed upon then its their OWN fault. Why dont we rename the the NHL the Harrison Bergeron League and find out who the WORST profitible NHL team is and see what salary cap they need to be successful, and then we can handicap all 29 other NHL teams to fit the mold of the worst team. And then well put extra weights on St. Louis skates so he cant skate faster than Darren Rumble and we'll put a hole in Adam Oates's stick so he's not as good as passing as other NHL players. We can also put an eyepatch on one of Brodeur's eyes to limit his puck seeing ability so hes not as good. Then EVERYTHING can be equal! PARITY FOR ALL!!!

 

[Phanuthier*]

Actually I don't like casinos. I don't spend what I can't afford and I never gamble on something that I can't predict the outcome.

This wasn't a question about your personal life. It was an analogy.

 

[vanlady]

Huh? That post made absolutely no sense.

Whats this novel idea? And how does the 20 million difference make allow for all teams to be competitive?

So let me get this straight you think all teams should have the exact same payroll, dollar for dollar????

 

[vanlady]

This wasn't a question about your personal life. It was an analogy.

So was mine, how about some owners pay attention.

 

[Phanuthier*]

So let me get this straight you think all teams should have the exact same payroll, dollar for dollar????

And where did you get that idea?

How is a $20 million difference the same as a $1 difference?

 

[Phanuthier*]

if an owner doesn't know how to set up a budget WITH a salary cap, thats worse than not setting a budget WITHOUT one.
How do you figure?

If theyre so stupid that they cant realise they can only spend 30 million and not 42 or 45 or whatever number would be agreed upon then its their OWN fault.
Umm... wasn't that the last CBA? And wasn't it the point of this CBA - for BOTH the players and owners - to fix that problem?

If you don't recognize that, then you sorely don't understand the objective of fixing the CBA, for BOTH sides proposals.

Why dont we rename the the NHL the Harrison Bergeron League and find out who the WORST profitible NHL team is and see what salary cap they need to be successful, and then we can handicap all 29 other NHL teams to fit the mold of the worst team. And then well put extra weights on St. Louis skates so he cant skate faster than Darren Rumble and we'll put a hole in Adam Oates's stick so he's not as good as passing as other NHL players.
Huh? Hos is this related to anything?

Very odd post.

 

[vanlady]

And where did you get that idea?

How is a $20 million difference the same as a $1 difference?

A 20 million dollar difference is a far better position they are in now. Condense 30 payrolls into a 20 million dollar difference and small market teams will have a better chance.