Line Combos: Don’t Touch PP1. It’s Good. Very Good.

[huerter]

Arrrghh...enough with Trocheck in the bumper. He's sucked there all year. He has no idea how to get open without the puck. His best attribute is his skating/puck carrying ability. His shot accuracy is garbage, his release is slow and predictable compared to others, and his movement without the puck is atrocious for generating offense. He's physical, he can forecheck well, but he lacks everything you'd need from him to suceed in the bumper and has all year. He doesn't collapse down low for rebounds. He sits between the top of the circles surrounded by 4 defenders, and has an uncanny knack to make sure that every one of the 4 is situated perfectly in the passing lane between him and the nearest Ranger in that direction. On the offchance a puck makes it to him, he half winds up and releases a slow, predictable snapper from range that is usually low and along the ice (as if he's a point shooter going for a deflection) except that he should be trying to score from there, and almost never does.

He was in the bumper again today and that PP unit did absolutely nothing. The only value Trocheck gives the PP is faceoffs, so whichever unit Zibanejad is not on is the unit he should be on, where he can help screen the goalie and play net front/side of net/puck recovery which plays to his strengths. That's it. Period full sotp.

Meanwhile, they are absolutely underutilizing Tarasenko on the PP. Guy is open at the right circle practically every PP shift and rarely gets the puck. Has a decent one timer too, and they never pass it to him. They gave him the puck once on the PP and he almost scored with a right circle wrister.

Kreider has to be net front
Mika has to be left circle
Panarin has to be right circle
Fox has to be up top

Someone has to be the bumper. To fit the above personnel, that person has to use a righthanded stick. Therefore, by default, the choice is Trocheck. There's never been an easier choice. Pat Mahomes or his backup is a harder choice. Aaron Judge or Aaron Hicks is a harder choice.

It's settled.

 

[SA16]

I don't just look at the stats, I look at the body of the game. Here are his PPG's this season:

-10/17 tap in from right side of net off a broken rush
-10/29 one timer from left dot after rotating out of the bumper with Kakko moving over to the middle in his place
-11/8 rebound from side of net, not playing standard bumper on the setup (Rangers had 2 forwards low).
-11/17 rebound from bumper.
-11/28 rebound from bumper.
-12/12 (3 months ago) against the Devils for the last goal he actually scored from that spot (deflection).
-12/18 vs. Chicago, at the side of the net along with Kreider, deflection (Rangers had 2 forwards low setup again here)
-New Year's Day, off the rush, so being "in the bumper" was irrelevant on that one.
-Zero PPG since.
-And most importantly, zero goals all season scored shooting off the pass from the bumper.

In fact, all of these just prove my point that he is better NOT in the bumper because allowing him to play net front/side of net/puck recovery allows him to drift to the side of the net when the play warrants which is actually how he's scored the majority of his PP goals this season. It also takes advantage of the fact he's been one of our better puck recovery forwards all year. My point isn't that he sucks/shouldn't be on the PP, it's that in that spot he is not good. He has other skills especially closer to the net that you would want to utilize, plus his uncanny faceoff skills which cover for Chytil's biggest weakness on the non-Mika unit. Putting him in the bumper with Mika virtually assures he won't score AND also ensures that Filip Chytil is taking PP2 faceoffs at 40%.

Also, PP1 got off to a hot start and now it's stale. Aside from the last 2 weeks, he's pretty much exclusively been in that spot all year. So, while averaging 90 seconds on every PP for much of that, he's got 1 PPG since a week before Christmas, and that was off the rush.

So, yes, I'd maintain he's been pretty bad in the bumper.

There’s more than one way to score from the bumper position yet you seem to be neglecting any goal that isn’t a one timer. If he wasn’t in that position the deflections and rebounds wouldn’t be there either

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

There’s more than one way to score from the bumper position yet you seem to be neglecting any goal that isn’t a one timer. If he wasn’t in that position the deflections and rebounds wouldn’t be there either

I'm not discounting them...I'm simply saying that's 3 PPG's in the bumper playing almost 60 games worth of PP's where he's out there 90 seconds.
That's atrocious.

The other 5 either came off the rush where him playing in the bumper isn't relevant, or him playing down low with a two forwards down low setup where he scored from the side of the net. If anything, that's a case for putting him ranging from the left circle to the left side of the net on PP2. Trocheck's best asset is his mobility and faceoffs and putting him in the bumper negates his skating ability. His one timer / ability to score from further out is terrible, otherwise he'd have at least 1 goal from there.

Plus I also think there's a value to having dynamic movement on PP1 where Mika can play bumper but easily rotate in and out with Panarin, and any mismatches they create allow Mika to use his shot from the usual spot by rotating in and out. But besides that, Mika can actually score from the bumper when he's fed a pass.

PP1 - Kreider / Panarin-Zibanejad-Tarasenko / Fox
PP2 - Trocheck / Laf-Chytil-Kane / Trouba or Miller

 

[SA16]

I'm not discounting them...I'm simply saying that's 3 PPG's in the bumper playing almost 60 games worth of PP's where he's out there 90 seconds.
That's atrocious.

The other 5 either came off the rush where him playing in the bumper isn't relevant, or him playing down low with a two forwards down low setup where he scored from the side of the net. If anything, that's a case for putting him ranging from the left circle to the left side of the net on PP2. Trocheck's best asset is his mobility and faceoffs and putting him in the bumper negates his skating ability. His one timer / ability to score from further out is terrible, otherwise he'd have at least 1 goal from there.

Plus I also think there's a value to having dynamic movement on PP1 where Mika can play bumper but easily rotate in and out with Panarin, and any mismatches they create allow Mika to use his shot from the usual spot by rotating in and out. But besides that, Mika can actually score from the bumper when he's fed a pass.

PP1 - Kreider / Panarin-Zibanejad-Tarasenko / Fox
PP2 - Trocheck / Laf-Chytil-Kane / Trouba or Miller

We went through this with Strome the last two years. The point of that role is not to be the primary goal scorer. It's to draw coverage away from the other players, particularly to open up the cross ice pass to Zibanejad. The defenders can't leave him all alone there and just cover the other players or they'll be allowing one timers from the slot like crazy. Strome had 7 5v4 goals as a Ranger in 126 games the previous two seasons often in that role. The PP was very good despite him not being the one to put the puck in. It's been even better with Trocheck. It's just scored less since it doesn't have a guy in front of the net scoring on 40% of his shots.

Regardless this hasn't even been the structure of the PP1 for 3 weeks+ now.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

We went through this with Strome the last two years. The point of that role is not to be the primary goal scorer. It's to draw coverage away from the other players, particularly to open up the cross ice pass to Zibanejad. The defenders can't leave him all alone there and just cover the other players or they'll be allowing one timers from the slot like crazy. Strome had 7 5v4 goals as a Ranger in 126 games the previous two seasons often in that role. The PP was very good despite him not being the one to put the puck in.

Except every team knows it's coming, so that shot hasn't been there for the past 3 months except against bad defensive teams that blow the PK coverage. Most of Mika's PPG's these days are scored from him closing in on the net which has more to do with Kreider's ability to deflect-pass and the passer to time the pass with Mika crashing the net than Trocheck's ability to stand in the middle of the ice with 4 passing lanes taken away. Wouldn't it be nice to have two shooting options both on the offside to counter that in Panarin and Tarasenko at the same time??? This is what Tampa does with Stamkos and Kucherov and it creates space for both of them, and would give Fox more than one one-time option.

 

[SA16]

Except every team knows it's coming, so that shot hasn't been there for the past 3 months except against bad defensive teams that blow the PK coverage. Most of Mika's PPG's these days are scored from him closing in on the net which has more to do with Kreider's ability to deflect-pass and the passer to time the pass with Mika crashing the net than Trocheck's ability to stand in the middle of the ice with 4 passing lanes taken away. Wouldn't it be nice to have two shooting options both on the offside to counter that in Panarin and Tarasenko at the same time??? This is what Tampa does with Stamkos and Kucherov and it creates space for both of them, and would give Fox more than one option.

Do we have Kucherov? Tarasenko and Kane are not even close to the level of him as a PP scorer.

TB PP is 25.6% this year. Rangers 23.3%.
TB PP is 23.9% last year. Rangers 25.2%

Not seeing the problem. This amazingly structured TB PP is 0.5 percentage points better than the Rangers since last year. The equivalent of 2 total goals over almost 2 years.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Do we have Kucherov? Tarasenko and Kane are not even close to the level of him as a PP scorer.

TB PP is 25.6% this year. Rangers 23.3%.
TB PP is 23.9% last year. Rangers 25.2%

Not seeing the problem. This amazingly structured TB PP is 0.5 percentage points better than the Rangers since last year. The equivalent of 2 total goals over almost 2 years.

Last year is irrelevant to this conversation. We had vastly different caliber personnel here last year, and our PP was effective because it wasn't quite as predictable and because Chris Kreider had a career year that is not repeatable.

Now, we have a former 40 goal scorer who is underutilized, a player who is admittedly playing hurt, but had 92 points last season on a terrible team who doesn't seem to fit in anywhere on either unit, Chris Kreider has become Chris Kreider again and not peak LeClair, and our leading PP scorer has continued to score PPG's but not in the stale formulaic way that those who drone on incessantly about geometry champion, especially at 5 on 4 of late.

Our PP has become weaker among the serious Cup contenders, and the majority of the posters here who are tactically inclined don't see fit to change anything or incorporate the personnel that we brought in, in a clear effort to go all in this season, into contributing with the man advantage.

That to me is a far bigger problem than 13 PPG's and a 2.3% efficiency difference.

 

[SA16]

Last year is irrelevant to this conversation. We had vastly different caliber personnel here last year, and our PP was effective because it wasn't quite as predictable and because Chris Kreider had a career year that is not repeatable.

Now, we have a former 40 goal scorer who is underutilized, a player who is admittedly playing hurt, but had 92 points last season on a terrible team who doesn't seem to fit in anywhere on either unit, Chris Kreider has become Chris Kreider again and not peak LeClair, and our leading PP scorer has continued to score PPG's but not in the stale formulaic way that those who drone on incessantly about geometry champion, especially at 5 on 4 of late.

Our PP has become weaker among the serious Cup contenders, and the majority of the posters here who are tactically inclined don't see fit to change anything or incorporate the personnel that we brought in, in clear effort to go all in this season, into contributing with the man advantage.

That to me is a far bigger problem than 13 PPG's and a 2% efficiency difference.

The Rangers have the 7th best PP% in the league. 5th best among playoff teams. Over the last two months they have the 6th best PP% in the league. Over the last one month they have the 6th best PP% in the league. Over the last month the only playoff teams with a higher PP% are Edmonton, Carolina, and Toronto. I don't understand your complaint.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

The Rangers have the 7th best PP% in the league. 5th best among playoff teams. Over the last two months they have the 6th best PP% in the league. Over the last one month they have the 6th best PP% in the league. Over the last month the only playoff teams with a higher PP% are Edmonton, Carolina, and Toronto. I don't understand your complaint.

This is the deepest team they've had in a long time. It's a serious Cup contender as constructed, based on the personnel, and they need to execute on the ice. They are built for offense and need to start maximizing it. They've clearly gone all in this year, and I'd like to see the results start to catch up.

So my complaint is, I don't think we should be "content" with being "in the conversation." For lack of a more eloquent way of putting it, I can't stand this Mets level way of looking at things. This is the best team we've had since at least 2015. From here until the end of the season other than the odd stinker on the back end of back-to-backs, we should have a Boston level record, be at or better than 25% PP efficiency from here on out, and at least get the PK above 80% as our goaltending hopefully rounds into form. We are 14th in goals scored, that very clearly needs to go up, and we need to play like a consistent top 4 in the league team.

This is a team that continues to rely on the PP for scoring. So unless they're going to magically find line combos that work and start scoring 3 goals at even strength every game, the PP has to be better than it has been because it has been so core to our overall offense. On talent alone, who is even in our stratosphere? Boston, Edmonton, Toronto, Colorado when healthy which hasn't been all year. This team should absolutely destroy teams like the Devils who are an absolutel nothingburger without Jack Hughes. When we play teams like Buffalo, who have a ton of skill, we should be comfortable trading chances with them, confident that we can win 6-4 because we are deeper and more talented than they are.

Instead, I see another team that is squandering the opportunity this season has presented and will either bow out in an early round 7-game series, or win a few tight series, burn itself out, and lose to a beatable team before they get to a Cup final. I want to be wrong, but what I see is a bunch of guys who are all capable of point per game in the right situation - who won't get those opportunities here because of the depth of talent - all underperforming even more modest expectations, and a PP that hasn't consistently been a difference maker when they need them to be, that is formulaic and easily defended by any team that actually knows what they're doing on the PK. I see what we've been doing all season, both offensively and defensively, and it's been "above average." If that's as good as it gets, then the season will be a failure when all is said and done. So either they change their system to create more offense at even strength, or their PP has to be even better than it has been. Otherwise, we're not going to score enough in the playofs again, and we're going home early.

 

[SA16]

This is the deepest team they've had in a long time. It's a serious Cup contender as constructed, based on the personnel, and they need to execute on the ice. They are built for offense and need to start maximizing it. They've clearly gone all in this year, and I'd like to see the results start to catch up.

So my complaint is, I don't think we should be "content" with being "in the conversation." For lack of a more eloquent way of putting it, I can't stand this Mets level way of looking at things. This is the best team we've had since at least 2015. From here until the end of the season other than the odd stinker on the back end of back-to-backs, we should have a Boston level record, be at or better than 25% PP efficiency from here on out, and at least get the PK above 80% as our goaltending hopefully rounds into form. We are 14th in goals scored, that very clearly needs to go up, and we need to play like a consistent top 4 in the league team.

This is a team that continues to rely on the PP for scoring. So unless they're going to magically find line combos that work and start scoring 3 goals at even strength every game, the PP has to be better than it has been because it has been so core to our overall offense. On talent alone, who is even in our stratosphere? Boston, Edmonton, Toronto, Colorado when healthy which hasn't been all year. This team should absolutely destroy teams like the Devils who are an absolutel nothingburger without Jack Hughes. When we play teams like Buffalo, who have a ton of skill, we should be comfortable trading chances with them, confident that we can win 6-4 because we are deeper and more talented than they are.

Instead, I see another team that is squandering the opportunity this season has presented and will either bow out in an early round 7-game series, or win a few tight series, burn itself out, and lose to a beatable team before they get to a Cup final. I want to be wrong, but what I see is a bunch of guys who are all capable of point per game in the right situation - who won't get those opportunities here because of the depth of talent - all underperforming even more modest expectations, and a PP that hasn't consistently been a difference maker when they need them to be, that is formulaic and easily defended by any team that actually knows what they're doing on the PK. I see what we've been doing all season, both offensively and defensively, and it's been "above average." If that's as good as it gets, then the season will be a failure when all is said and done. So either they change their system to create more offense at even strength, or their PP has to be even better than it has been. Otherwise, we're not going to score enough in the playofs again, and we're going home early.

Well do I have good news for you then. The Rangers PP is 30.2% since the day they acquired Tarasenko which is second best in league behind only the team with the second highest PP% in league history.

So if you want the PP to be better than it has been are your expectations that it be the best PP in the history of the league? Think you're asking for a bit much.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

Well do I have good news for you then. The Rangers PP is 30.2% since the day they acquired Tarasenko which is second best in league behind only the team with the second highest PP% in league history.

And that's great...a good deal of that has coincided with Trocheck moving to the 2nd unit, where he covers for Chytil's faceoff deficiencies, and the ice time being distributed more evenly between the two units which means fewer long/tired shifts where nothing is generated but possession is maintained by the first unit staying on past fatigue and initiating a new zone entry at the one minute mark rather than changing when the puck is cleared seconds before.

I'd like to stick with that and let those guys jell in the new units, rather than go back to something that was merely above average most of the season.

 

[huerter]

After the first few PPs were lifeless, loaded up on one unit and put Kane on the goalline instead of the bumper. It's an interesting wrinkle but just put Trocheck in the bumper. It's a proven formula.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Laffy has to come off that unit, he's atrocious on the PP. He just doesn't bring enough skill, play making, puck movement etc. He basically retrieves pucks 50% of the time and it goes straight to the point. Zone entries? Forget it. If he has to touch the puck on a zone entry Igor just stands behind his net in the trapezoid because the puck is simply going back down to our end, he's hopeless to enter the zone with any type of skill

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

After the first few PPs were lifeless, loaded up on one unit and put Kane on the goalline instead of the bumper. It's an interesting wrinkle but just put Trocheck in the bumper. It's a proven formula.

The only thing it's proven to be is mediocre. Trocheck was in the bumper all night on the first unit, and that unit didn't do a darn thing, as usual.

But hey, at least he took the faceoffs.

 

[huerter]

The only thing it's proven to be is mediocre. Trocheck was in the bumper all night on the first unit, and that unit didn't do a darn thing, as usual.

But hey, at least he took the faceoffs.

We said for the whole Strome in the bumper era that our personnel necessitated the righty in the bumper. Then we signed Trocheck and Kreider said the best facet of the signing was that he could be a righty in the bumper. Then in December 2022, former KHL coach Mitch Giguere said that the tire fire Canadiens PP should try to emulate the Rangers PP, while specifically mentioning the utilization of Trocheck.

But hey, at least Chytil didn't fall down when he got the pass in the bumper spot from the right boards and had to go backhand to forehand and then whiffed on the shot. Trocheck would have top shelf sniped and you would have been cised.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

We said for the whole Strome in the bumper era that our personnel necessitated the righty in the bumper. Then we signed Trocheck and Kreider said the best facet of the signing was that he could be a righty in the bumper. Then in December 2022, former KHL coach Mitch Giguere said that the tire fire Canadiens PP should try to emulate the Rangers PP, while specifically mentioning the utilization of Trocheck.

But hey, at least Chytil didn't fall down when he got the pass in the bumper spot from the right boards and had to go backhand to forehand and then whiffed on the shot. Trocheck would have top shelf sniped and you would have been cised.

That would be an impressive what-if scenario considering it hasn't happened once all year.

Trocheck has 8 PPG's this season. Not a single one scored in the fashion you suggest receiving a pass in the middle of the ice off a positional PP setup and shooting.

In reality, one of two things would've happened...he would've shot immediately and hit the goalie in the chest from range, or he would have tried to deke and lost the puck because his hands aren't fast enough like Chytil's are to squeeze off that shot in traffic. Trocheck's best attributes are his physicality and his skating speed, neither of which is used in the bumper. Still more likely is the third possibility - the pass never makes it to Trocheck because he's not open.

 

[DanielBrassard]

We said for the whole Strome in the bumper era that our personnel necessitated the righty in the bumper. Then we signed Trocheck and Kreider said the best facet of the signing was that he could be a righty in the bumper. Then in December 2022, former KHL coach Mitch Giguere said that the tire fire Canadiens PP should try to emulate the Rangers PP, while specifically mentioning the utilization of Trocheck.

But hey, at least Chytil didn't fall down when he got the pass in the bumper spot from the right boards and had to go backhand to forehand and then whiffed on the shot. Trocheck would have top shelf sniped and you would have been cised.

While the rest of your post might be true, Trocheck hasn't one timed a puck into the net all season from where Fil was. Probably wouldn't have there either.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Whatever happened to Fox floating writers top cheese while Kreider solar eclipses the goalie with his ass? Getting seriously sick of them passing around the triangle for the entire shift. You have a 50+ goal guy who is arguably the best net front guy in the league in front of the net, why have we moved so far away from what worked so well last year?

 

[huerter]

Still more likely is the third possibility - the pass never makes it to Trocheck because he's not open.

I think we found something here. Sticks in the lane denying the pass to Trocheck. Opens the seam pass to Mika. Top shelf snipe. Cised.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I think we found something here. Sticks in the lane denying the pass to Trocheck. Opens the seam pass to Mika. Top shelf snipe. Cised.

HA! So first Trocheck is going to do something he's not done all season (snipe from the bumper), and now that has been challenged, your fallback position is that a top 3 PK team in the league that's known for pressuring the puck as soon as it arrives is just going to magically have the weak side coverage just ignore/forget about the team's top PP weapon because Vincent Trocheck is such an unreal distraction in the middle of the ice...that's rich!

Never mind the Ovechkin one timer from the circle hasn't been there for Zibby at 5 on 4 since the New Year...I guess in your mind, let's just continue to encourage our players to play stale, formulaic perimeter PP hockey, all because you have faint memories of Mika blasting a one timer home against the vaunted Florida PK (which is ranked 26th) in mid January. Mika's last few one timers have actually come rotating out of the bumper to closer to the goal line, and moving around the ice with Panarin, which creates confusion - which is a far superior setup. Not to mention the absolute beaut off Tarasenko's one-touch pass where he scored FROM the bumper. All of those are superior to a setup where all three non-netfront non-bumper players are standing around the perimeter, not skating, just passing the puck back and forth for 30 seconds, only to attempt a cross ice pass through 2 defenders that hasn't been there. A stale motionless power play where a seam just magically opens up to Mika standing at the circle just doesn't happen against good teams. But for purposes of your argument, when the evidence on the ice contradicts your template - which the team had finally moved away from during their recent PP hot stretch because it wasn't working all that well to begin with - I guess it's safe for you to play the hypothetical game and just pretend a pass is going to be there that hasn't been there much of the second half of the season.

Never mind putting Trocheck in the middle of the ice completely negates his speed, boards presence, and puck retrieval - which are all strengths - and ensures that Chytil is taking 2nd unit faceoffs. Never mind Mika is good enough moving without the puck to still get his one timer off from the bumper, and can easily rotate out with Panarin, creating confusion for the PK, especially if they're using a diamond, which will actually open up the cross-ice pass to him or to Panarin at the circle when they move around since no PK's lane control is that good (royal road becomes a timing play during said movement). Never mind that 10-93-91 shows a ton of chemistry on the ice, and adds one of the top netfront presences (Kreider) to that unit, and that all times, a one-time shooting option will be available on the offwing with that setup.

Except now they've changed what they were doing in recent weeks - which was working - only to go back to a modified version of your template that also doesn't work because it takes an already-played-out PP design and puts all the players in the wrong roles to boot because our coach won't give up on Panarin-Trocheck or Panarin-Kane entirely. And instead of fixing it, you want to go back to something that was just above average, was predictable as all hell, and doesn't make proper use of our personnel.

Offense in hockey isn't a math problem with one solution. 10/10 times I would rather take creative players who are placed in roles that utilize their strengths within an appropriate big-picture stucture who learn how to read and react to one another, and who have a handful of set plays they can incorporate into their overall play, rather than a stationary, overcoached setup that favors one play over all the others, and if it's not there, the players just waste 2 minutes trying to force it because X's and O's. OK, your setup worked last year...Great. It's not working this year. The league has adapted, now the Rangers need to also.

 

[Jauffre]

Didn't capitalize so it's hard to be satisfied, but they got some glorious chances toward the end, just didn't finish. At the end of the day not converting on these in the playoffs would absolutely kill us.

 

[huerter]

Didn't capitalize so it's hard to be satisfied, but they got some glorious chances toward the end, just didn't finish. At the end of the day not converting on these in the playoffs would absolutely kill us.

5 on 3 has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Jauffre]

5 on 3 has nothing to do with this thread.

I clipped the video to post it, and figured I'd put it in the thread discussing the PP combos. This is the first look we got at the new top unit with Kane at the goal-line. Was in the middle of clipping the 5on4 PP we got in the 2nd.

Report it to a mod, Mr. Royal Road.

 

[huerter]

Let's do an informal poll. Like this post if you embrace the template.

Kreider
Zib-Trocheck-Panarin
Fox

For as long as they can go.

 

[huerter]

I'm so rick'd at what's going on here. First, lets ignore the fact that Kane is the biggest passenger on the team and doesn't deserve any PP time for that alone. Every formation they try with him makes no freakin sense. Mika in the bumper negates your biggest weapon, Mika. Kane in the bumper, he's a lefty. Kane down low on the wall near the goal line, the pk can basically take a nap.

Kreider
Zib-Trocheck-Panarin
Fox

For as long as they can go.