Post-Game Talk: Dog

[Riche16]

I thought Zbad had a great game

KK was much better

Laf was a little worse

Tro, Chytil & Bread were awesome

Cuylle was really good also

 

[duhmetreE]

Did that Chytil dance become a meme for the team?

 

[Greg02]

Yes, yes, the law of averages. The median. The mean.

I mean more than that, no? It's the same concept as RBs in the NFL. It's not that they're not really good athletes, it's just why pay for one when you can grab an equivalent one in the 7th round from Middle Tennessee State?

 

[bhamill]

That's happened every game so far, Laviolette has been double shifting Panarin at times, which is smart when he's skating like he has.

yup.

 

[Machinehead]

You forgot “the refs cheated for the other team”

That's valid sometimes!

 

[will1066]

I mean more than that, no? It's the same concept as RBs in the NFL. It's not that they're not really good athletes, it's just why pay for one when you can grab an equivalent one in the 7th round from Middle Tennessee State?

Please, continue. I think I know where you're headed with your point, but please continue. Look, if you're in the NHL, you're a good athlete because plenty others don't make it to that level. But there's a difference between getting in the door to the room and being on the stage in front of that room. A team can use an average goalie in the NHL, or go for an elite goalie, but some other aspect of the team has to give.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

This was a few years ago. Where is the video of tonight's brawl at the buzzer?

Here you go. Both Ranger’s and Yote’s feed:

 

[JHS]

Because a team getting outplayed for parts of 60 minutes of a game happens in EVERY game. The only way you can reconcile that play with asking for a 60 minutes effort is by saying you can be outplayed AND play well. And you said something earlier something to that effect.

Literally every NHL expert has said the Rangers need a more complete effort- every one, like you can’t even find one that says the Rangers consistently give a solid effort for all 3 periods.

Whether the other team is putting in effort is not what this statement about a full 60 minute effort is about— sure they can outwork the Rangers and put on a push. Anyone who’s watched/played sports knows the concept of momentum. What I’m asking you to evaluate and what you seem incapable of seeing is the Rangers own effort is not nearly consistent enough yet and that will be the biggest reason if this team under achieves.

 

[Greg02]

Please, continue. I think I know where you're headed with your point, but please continue. Look, if you're in the NHL, you're a good athlete because plenty others don't make it to that level. But there's a difference between getting in the door to the room and being on the stage in front of that room. A team can use an average goalie in the NHL, or go for an elite goalie, but some other aspect of the team has to give.

GSAA is pretty much roughly a measure of how many more goals you save in a year compared to the rest of the league's goalies. In the five years since Andrei Vasilevskiy won the Vezina, he averaged about 20 GSAA. So (very) roughly, it's the difference between paying for a 20G scorer vs a 40G scorer comparing him to the worst starter in the league. But actually it's kind of worse, because if you look at the 15th best you're getting roughly 10 GSAA, so a ten goal difference.

Or put another way, the 40th best Center in the league is a pretty good 2C. The 40th best goalie is a backup.

 

[hardnosed]

Here you go. Both Ranger’s and Yote’s feed:

Interesting that Ari announcers say it started when their guy "put the wood to Lindgren". Actually, Lindy cross checked him first. But should have ended there. Dumba flying in got it going further.

 

[will1066]

GSAA is pretty much roughly a measure of how many more goals you save in a year compared to the rest of the league's goalies. In the five years since Andrei Vasilevskiy won the Vezina, he averaged about 20 GSAA. So (very) roughly, it's the difference between paying for a 20G scorer vs a 40G scorer comparing him to the worst starter in the league. But actually it's kind of worse, because if you look at the 15th best you're getting roughly 10 GSAA, so a ten goal difference.

Or put another way, the 40th best Center in the league is a pretty good 2C. The 40th best goalie is a backup.

Ok. But now tie it back to the previous point about getting stonewalled by rando, replacement-level goalies. So these guys are making most of their GSAAs on our team, if we are in the top 10 in shooting pct? That's some shit luck for us then which is lasting unnaturally long.

 

[JCProdigy]

But the '21-'22 Rangers had no problem making the Pens and Canes backup goalies looking as backup as they were. Despite all the Spicy pork and broccoli eaten.

 

[Greg02]

Ok. But now tie it back to the previous point about getting stonewalled by rando, replacement-level goalies. So these guys are making most of their GSAAs on our team, if we are in the top 10 in shooting pct? That's some shit luck for us then which is lasting unnaturally long.

If our shooting percentage is good then either we're legitimately well above average at scoring on good goalies while being bad at scoring on backups, or it's just that even the replacement level goalies are pretty good, we're talking about a difference of less than a goal a game, and the time when we score two goals less than you'd expect against a backup stick out more than the times when we score two goals more. Haven't looked at the data that closely, but I'd guess it's the latter.

 

[mas0764]

We don't need Kakko to be Barkov to win the cup. Absurd.

I think we do, actually.

We need another elite, really two, offensive impact players.

We have seen what happens with what we have. Someone goes cold and out we go, early. The talent we came to play with isn't good enough.

Even when we are overachieving, when you run into a Tampa, they are just better.

 

[Raspewtin]

there are things I don't like to this point from the team but with the obvious culture shock and system shock that Laviolette has brought, you really couldn't ask for a better start. They've outplayed the other team in all three games, showed great defensive structure, effort, and discipline. Also helps that we have a top 4 D on the bottom pair babysitting Schneider's stupid ass.

I don't think we will see a really finished product until like January so I fully expect dips, bad plays, and lots of tomfoolery going forward.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Regardless of who we put the blame on - players or coaches - Kakko, Laf and Chytil are all at 0.33 ppg.

Yeah, it's 3 games in. So what? We are back at these guys being afterthoughts to driving the offense. There is no change. Cold streaks happen but we would see more activity by now even, if these guys were primed to make a jump.

This is all they will ever be. This was the last year for them to show that they are capable of stepping up into dynamic, offense-driving players.

It's failure and with it go any realistic Cup hopes.

They're still not getting special teams time, getting prolonged time sitting between shifts. Top 6 at EV or not, if they're not getting PP time they're not going to produce the kind of numbers people want.

If the organization was serious about it, they'd force the coach to put them in those spots. They aren't. New coach, same pets, same BS. They're giving them top 6 EV minutes, but it doesn't matter they still have to score all their points at even strength. We shouldn't even be saying even strength at this point its 5v5. Because they won't be out 4v4 anyway. They need to score all their points when it's 5v5. How sustainable do you think that is? If a game's final score is 3-2 you expect Laf and Kakko to always be one of the 3 goals? It's not realistic. Without PP1 time they aren't going to ever put up the points everyone wants and expects.

They'll use the excuse, just like fans, that "look they're playing top 6 now". Great but asking them to score ALL their points 5v5 is idiotic, they know it's not attainable. It's by design.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Literally every NHL expert has said the Rangers need a more complete effort- every one, like you can’t even find one that says the Rangers consistently give a solid effort for all 3 periods.

Whether the other team is putting in effort is not what this statement about a full 60 minute effort is about— sure they can outwork the Rangers and put on a push. Anyone who’s watched/played sports knows the concept of momentum. What I’m asking you to evaluate and what you seem incapable of seeing is the Rangers own effort is not nearly consistent enough yet and that will be the biggest reason if this team under achieves.

What experts??? Seems like it would be a pretty big deal if every prominent hockey figure was literally calling out NYR players for not giving a shit

 

[mas0764]

Yeah plus it's been 3 games and its not like they aren't creating any chances.

Theres no reason to touch anything in the top 9 to this point. All of the lines are working.

I'm not suggesting moving him off that line.

But yeah they are putting up good xGF numbers but.... 2 goals against Arizona, a 2 goal loss against Columbus. What's gonna happen when we play NJ, Carolina, Boston?

The line, and especially Kakko, needs to actually produce some numbers. xGF is great but you do also have to score.

 

[JHS]

What experts??? Seems like it would be a pretty big deal if every prominent hockey figure was literally calling out NYR players for not giving a shit

Wow- never said the players don't give a crap-- Guys this argument is just literally that. Look at any of what Vali said either at the end of last season, after the Columbus game,

Ihttps://nypost.com/2021/10/23/rangers-stage-furious-rally-in-final-minutes-to-stun-senators/
From 2021

From 2022- On the Rangers playing a full 60 minutes - Blue Seat Blogs

From 2023 after the game 6 loss--https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/36309248/rangers-lose-devils-again-shift-focus-win-game-6

Kreider admitted that the Rangers had let their advantage over the Devils slip away in two losses at Madison Square Garden.

"We've had a terrific fan base all year. We let them down, we let ourselves down at home," he said. "So it's up to us to show up and play the way we want to play from puck drop.

"All the cliches and euphemisms I throw at you guys all year, it's time to step up and do those things, right? It's time to play for a full 60 minutes. It's time to win a hockey game."

think I'm going back to not coming to this site. It totally feels like its just argument central around here and almost no actual hockey talk goes on.

 

[Gardner McKay]

I think we do, actually.

We need another elite, really two, offensive impact players.

We have seen what happens with what we have. Someone goes cold and out we go, early.

Even when we are overachieving, when you run into a Tampa, they are just better.

We didn't go out early because someone got cold. We went out early because the entire team played like putrid ass in the playoffs.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

I think we do, actually.

We need another elite, really two, offensive impact players.

We have seen what happens with what we have. Someone goes cold and out we go, early.

Even when we are overachieving, when you run into a Tampa, they are just better.

Patrick Kane? Reports say he is doing well in his rehabilitation.
What would that do to the lines even if he came in on league minimum in January?
Panarin, Chytil, Kane
Kreider, Zibanejad, Lafrenier
Cuylle, Trocheck, Kakko
Goodrow, Bonino, Pitlick

 

[KevinFinnerty]

very concerned with Miller. fighting the puck

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm not suggesting moving him off that line.

But yeah they are putting up good xGF numbers but.... 2 goals against Arizona, a 2 goal loss against Columbus. What's gonna happen when we play NJ, Carolina, Boston?

The line, and especially Kakko, needs to actually produce some numbers. xGF is great but you do also have to score.

You mean the NJ team that just got run out of their own building by the AZ team the Rangers beat? Or the Carolina team that just got housed by Anaheim?

I have no idea what will happen. But logic dictates that if they continue to create chances as they have been, they'll start going in.

 

[McRanger92]

very concerned with Miller. fighting the puck

Im not. The only defenseman who have stood out are Fox (he's an alien) and Gustafsson (who played this system with Lavi last year). The other 4-5 guys all look like they are still working out the kinks. Trouba and Miller have good analytics for whatever thats worth in the early going.

You mean the NJ team that just got run out of their own building by the AZ team the Rangers beat? Or the Carolina team that just got housed by Anaheim?

I have no idea what will happen. But logic dictates that if they continue to create chances as they have been, they'll start going in.

Theres no point arguing with him. We have no chance.

 

[mas0764]

You mean the NJ team that just got run out of their own building by the AZ team the Rangers beat? Or the Carolina team that just got housed by Anaheim?

I have no idea what will happen. But logic dictates that if they continue to create chances as they have been, they'll start going in.

Well then when they start going in I'll have far less to complain about.

But as is, I see yet another year where we won't score enough to hang with the big boys.

I'd love for that to change and for Kakko and Laf to be 60 point scorers at least.

We didn't go out early because someone got cold. We went out early because the entire team played like putrid ass in the playoffs.

And one of the reasons for that is a lack of high end scoring talent.