Does Larkin become the player he is today without Zetterberg?

[Lampedampe]

It's time for some off-season threads.

I don't have much more to add other than the question posed in the title.

I've been thinking about which vets Yzerman should re-sign or go after in FA, like Stamkos for example. I also wonder how big of a impact Kane has had on Raymond's development.

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[RedHawkDown]

I would offer Stamkos 3 years at 4-5M. He can’t be worse than Copp, and he actually has some mentorship to offer.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

How's the relationship between Stamkos and Yzerman? Weren't their negotations a bit tense there in 2016?

 

[lilidk]

I don't like the idea to bring guys like Stamkos or Crosby to this team.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I would offer Stamkos 3 years at 4-5M. He can’t be worse than Copp, and he actually has some mentorship to offer.

You know that Stamkos had more goals and points than any Wing this year right? I'm sure his teammates were saying well at least you're not worse than Andrew Copp as he potted his 40th. A 4-5 million offer is straight up an insult

 

[dalem177]

Are you asking "does a rookie benefit from watching a veteran?"

Yes. Absolutely.

 

[RabidBadger]

I don't like the idea to bring guys like Stamkos or Crosby to this team.

Don't worry. There is very little danger of either of those players ending up in Detroit.

 

[Konnan511]

I would offer Stamkos 3 years at 4-5M. He can’t be worse than Copp, and he actually has some mentorship to offer.

I too would lowball him.

In no world is that his next contract. He just finished above a Point per game with 40 goals. Dude is going to get at least 7 mil if not more.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

I love Stamkos, but even by Bolts fans admission, he's a PP specialist and defensive liability at this point. A year younger right handed Kane.

 

[DamonDRW]

Yes. This mentorship crap is overrated. A player either has it or not.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

Yes. This mentorship crap is overrated. A player either has it or not.

I disagree as it helps to an extent. Barkov has stated he learned a lot early in his career playing next to Jagr. Saying you can't learn anything from someone who's played 1000+ games in the NHL is a bit short sighted.

Zetterberg spent early career years with the likes of Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Shanahan, Hull, Robitaille, and Larionov. You can't tell me he didn't learn a single thing, even if he had it.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I too would lowball him.

In no world is that his next contract. He just finished above a Point per game with 40 goals. Dude is going to get at least 7 mil if not more.

He's 34 years old and quickly declining. I doubt he puts up more than 55-60 points on Detroit, most of his production is due to Kucherov on the PP. a 3-4 year contract he's not getting above 6-7M, especially not from Tampa. If we're the only ones offering him that many years, he might bite at 5-6M range. Beyond that I wouldn't go for him, but yeah he's not taking less than 7 on a 1-2 year contract.

I think he's a great leader and a good PP weapon to have, and a good mentor for the kids. If he signs for 3-4 years at 6M, I think it would be a good stopgap.

My ideal situation is trading Berggren+Wallinder+Fabbri and ideally the '25 first for Buchnevich, signing Stamkos and Montour, shipping out Petry/Holl, and going into 2024-2025 with:

DBC-Larkin-Buchnevich
Stamkos-Danielson-Raymond
Copp-Compher-Rasmussen
Mazur-Veleno-Sprong
Some FA/Fischer

Walman-Seider
Edvinsson-Montour
Chiarot-Johansson
Maatta

Think that roster does some damage, and definitely makes the playoffs. Then over the years, you phase out Stamkos/Copp/Compher and phase in '24 1st rounder (MBN) and Kasper/Buchelnikov/Lombardi etc. Just a thought. Stamkos is essentially a Kane replacement. Could sign Kane instead too, but I have a feeling he's going to test the market.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I would offer Stamkos 3 years at 4-5M. He can’t be worse than Copp, and he actually has some mentorship to offer.

Why would he take this as a UFA to come to DETROIT???

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Why would he take this as a UFA to come to DETROIT???

We got the secret weapon, free Little Caesars for life and a reduced rate for Priority trash pickup.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Why would he take this as a UFA to come to DETROIT???

Because Tampa may not offer him term and we have cap + Yzerman connection

 

[lilidk]

He's 34 years old and quickly declining. I doubt he puts up more than 55-60 points on Detroit, most of his production is due to Kucherov on the PP. a 3-4 year contract he's not getting above 6-7M, especially not from Tampa. If we're the only ones offering him that many years, he might bite at 5-6M range. Beyond that I wouldn't go for him, but yeah he's not taking less than 7 on a 1-2 year contract.

I think he's a great leader and a good PP weapon to have, and a good mentor for the kids. If he signs for 3-4 years at 6M, I think it would be a good stopgap.

My ideal situation is trading Berggren+Wallinder+Fabbri and ideally the '25 first for Buchnevich, signing Stamkos and Montour, shipping out Petry/Holl, and going into 2024-2025 with:

DBC-Larkin-Buchnevich
Stamkos-Danielson-Raymond
Copp-Compher-Rasmussen
Mazur-Veleno-Sprong
Some FA/Fischer

Walman-Seider
Edvinsson-Montour
Chiarot-Johansson
Maatta

Think that roster does some damage, and definitely makes the playoffs. Then over the years, you phase out Stamkos/Copp/Compher and phase in '24 1st rounder (MBN) and Kasper/Buchelnikov/Lombardi etc. Just a thought. Stamkos is essentially a Kane replacement. Could sign Kane instead too, but I have a feeling he's going to test the market.

It's too late to bring mentor for any of our kids . How did Chiarot for Seider worked out. Seider and Walman would be good mentors for Ed.
Danielson is not NHL ready and not ahead of Kasper.
Stamkos will bring more destruction then help , I d rather overpay Kane .
Imegi pyramid , on very top is Larkin, below him Seider and Reimond, below Walman, Chiarot, Perron and Cat. That is a team leadership, bring Stamkos and he will challenge Larkin on the top of piramid. Even though Kane was great last season, but he also brought some distractions

 

[Retire91]

These might be the last few years Stamkos will play. He is not signing at a discount. I can't believe we are going to have yet another Stamkos off season.

Let's not forget one of the attractions to Tampa is no state tax. He loses 3-7% on the same salary just by moving to another state

 

[norrisnick]

These might be the last few years Stamkos will play. He is not signing at a discount. I can't believe we are going to have yet another Stamkos off season.

Let's not forget one of the attractions to Tampa is no state tax. He loses 3-7% on the same salary just by moving to another state

Not having to live in Florida is worth a hell of a lot more than 3-7%. Blows my mind that millionaires give two shits about state taxes... It's not going to make you poor and/or alter your lifestyle in any way.

 

[Konnan511]

He's 34 years old and quickly declining. I doubt he puts up more than 55-60 points on Detroit, most of his production is due to Kucherov on the PP. a 3-4 year contract he's not getting above 6-7M, especially not from Tampa. If we're the only ones offering him that many years, he might bite at 5-6M range. Beyond that I wouldn't go for him, but yeah he's not taking less than 7 on a 1-2 year contract.

I think he's a great leader and a good PP weapon to have, and a good mentor for the kids. If he signs for 3-4 years at 6M, I think it would be a good stopgap.

My ideal situation is trading Berggren+Wallinder+Fabbri and ideally the '25 first for Buchnevich, signing Stamkos and Montour, shipping out Petry/Holl, and going into 2024-2025 with:

DBC-Larkin-Buchnevich
Stamkos-Danielson-Raymond
Copp-Compher-Rasmussen
Mazur-Veleno-Sprong
Some FA/Fischer

Walman-Seider
Edvinsson-Montour
Chiarot-Johansson
Maatta

Think that roster does some damage, and definitely makes the playoffs. Then over the years, you phase out Stamkos/Copp/Compher and phase in '24 1st rounder (MBN) and Kasper/Buchelnikov/Lombardi etc. Just a thought. Stamkos is essentially a Kane replacement. Could sign Kane instead too, but I have a feeling he's going to test the market.

He absolutely is not. I watch every Lightning game. He sucked at the start of the year but is crushing it now. The whole team was meh at the beginning. He's been a point per game player the past three seasons. 17 points in his last 10 games. He's a little slower

And you are correct, he probably would not put up 60 points on Detroit because Detroit is a mid team currently.

He is not signing for 6 mil. It'd be cool if he did and came here, but I don't see that happening.

 

[Lampedampe]

Are you asking "does a rookie benefit from watching a veteran?"

Yes. Absolutely.

Yeah I don't think there's a question on whether or not a rookies benefit from vets. I wonder more to what extent, and I'm talking about vets like these past elite players, not a guy like Chiarot.

Would Larkin be such a good two-way center if not for Zetterberg, because surely he taught him alot.

If that's the case then keeping a guy like Kane around be worth alot more, if it meant Raymond might develop into a better winger because of it.

Or perhaps getting a previously elite defender to teach Seider and Edvinsson.

Not trying to argue for a specific side though.

 

[lilidk]

Yeah I don't think there's a question on whether or not a rookies benefit from vets. I wonder more to what extent, and I'm talking about vets like these past elite players, not a guy like Chiarot.

Would Larkin be such a good two-way center if not for Zetterberg, because surely he taught him alot.

If that's the case then keeping a guy like Kane around be worth alot more, if it meant Raymond might develop into a better winger because of it.

Or perhaps getting a previously elite defender to teach Seider and Edvinsson.

Not trying to argue for a specific side though.

They should of done it 3 years ago, now it's to late both Seider and Raymond are like veterans, newcomers should learn from them

 

[Retire91]

That is the trap of what if's though. If Yzerman started accumulating past prime elite vets onto the roster for Seider and Raymond we would not have Edvinsson Kasper or Danielson because we would have went up the draft board.

 

[Ezekial]

Yes. This mentorship crap is overrated. A player either has it or not.

Who knows, if someone took you under their wing you might be a better poster

Not having to live in Florida is worth a hell of a lot more than 3-7%. Blows my mind that millionaires give two shits about state taxes... It's not going to make you poor and/or alter your lifestyle in any way.

Even millionaires can have ape brains with little foresight.

I hated Florida. I wouldn't live there again for any reason. Place is actually trash 9 months a year.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

I don't like the idea to bring guys like Stamkos or Crosby to this team.

We have 4 top 6 players. And that is including JT...

 

[lilidk]

We have 4 top 6 players. And that is including JT...

Guentzel and Berggren will make it complete line