Does a cup affect McDavid’s legacy?

[rogking65]

You are doubling down on not thinking.

Tell me, what does McDavid do on the ice without his teammates?

you are arguing against yourself...you are saying Mcdavid depends on his teamates but if the teaam fails to win a cup it is his fault .... bizarre logic

 

[Divine]

you are arguing against yourself...you are saying Mcdavid depends on his teamates but if the teaam fails to win a cup it is his fault .... bizarre logic

I'm saying McDavid is a product of his teammates and if he doesn't win a Cup, he's at fault just as his teammates are.

Your logic makes no sense. You're saying McDavid isn't a part of the team when they lose? Only when they win can he be given credit?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

as another poster commented,there is a lack of critical thinking in this thread

well i guess that would be his opinion then now wouldn't it? what does his opinion trump everyone elses? how the hell are you going to argue McDavid over the other greats if he can't lead his team to a cup? He needs one or the story will always be. he's the best player to never win anything.

 

[rogking65]

well i guess that would be his opinion then now wouldn't it? what does his opinion trump everyone elses? how the hell are you going to argue McDavid over the other greats if he can't lead his team to a cup? He needs one or the story will always be. he's the best player to never win anything.

as I said before it is not tennis or golf....one person alone does not determine the outcome of a hockey game...why is that so hard to comprehend?

 

[Bank Shot]

What? Are you new to hockey? Ovechkin not being able to win the Cup was always a mark against him in comparison to Crosby.

By dumb people.

Ovechkin was absolutely dominant in some of his playoff exits.

The story that Ovechkin changed his game to become more of a two way guy is fiction created by dummies after Ovechkin won the Cup to explain how he won it, when he was apparently "lacking something" before his win.

 

[Subway Schenn]

I fully believe he'll win one (maybe a bit later in his career like Ovy).

 

[rogking65]

I'm saying McDavid is a product of his teammates and if he doesn't win a Cup, he's at fault just as his teammates are.

Your logic makes no sense. You're saying McDavid isn't a part of the team when they lose? Only when they win can he be given credit?

so youy are admitting that if a team does not have a group of players good enough to win a cup it should still factor in the legacy of a player? you are contradicting yourself

 

[TomppaKoo]

It’s pretty unanimous Connor is the best player of this generation and among the best of all time already. Especially now that he’s the 5th fastest to 800. His postseason numbers are phenomenal as well yet, because of things out of his control his Oil teams have underwhelmed year in and year out (for the most part). My question is does winning a cup affect his legacy or is it already firmly cemented in the top 10. How much would winning a cup shoot him up the list or does it not change anything seeing how dominant he’s been since he joined the league

If Ovie didn't win the cup, his legacy would be diminished even that he is probably the best goal scorer in NHL ever. If Teemu Selänne didn't win the cup his legacy as one of the best offensive players and skater of his era would be diminished. There are many examples and I think it is a pretty important thing to a player. Look at Eric Johnson and Landeskog celebrating last year, when they won the cup.

 

[Divine]

By dumb people.

Ovechkin was absolutely dominant in some of his playoff exits.

The story that Ovechkin changed his game to become more of a two way guy is fiction created by dummies after Ovechkin won the Cup to explain how he won it, when he was apparently "lacking something" before his win.

Dummies? Barry Trotz was the one who said it. That was his coach.

so youy are admitting that if a team does not have a group of players good enough to win a cup it should still factor in the legacy of a player? you are contradicting yourself

Yes, McDavid is part of the team.

If they don't win, it's his fault just as much as anyone else's. Stop blaming everyone else but your favourite player.

 

[rogking65]

Dummies? Barry Trotz was the one who said it. That was his coach.



Yes, McDavid is part of the team.

If they don't win, it's his fault just as much as anyone else's. Stop blaming everyone else but your favourite player.

actually Tage T is my favourite player. Sabres fan since 1975

 

[Divine]

actually Tage T is my favourite player. Sabres fan since 1975

My condolences.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

as I said before it is not tennis or golf....one person alone does not determine the outcome of a hockey game...why is that so hard to comprehend?

why is it so hard for you to comprehend that winning a cup matters in the top 10 of all time?
How the hell are you going to argue McDavid is better then any of them if he can't even lead his team to a cup?

it has always mattered for every sport. McDavid isn't special, your greatness is weighed by how much you win. he needs atleast one to be part of the conversation otherwise you will always have people disagreeing.
he needs one plain and simple

 

[tucker3434]

Of course it does. May not be fair but if he never wins one, it’ll be the asterisk on his career that follows him around, like Dan Marino.

 

[rogking65]

why is it so hard for you to comprehend that winning a cup matters in the top 10 of all time?
How the hell are you going to argue McDavid is better then any of them if he can't even lead his team to a cup?

it has always mattered for every sport. McDavid isn't special, your greatness is weighed by how much you win. he needs atleast one to be part of the conversation otherwise you will always have people disagreeing.
he needs one plain and simple

so you think that if Mcdavid continues his level of play for the next 6 or 7 years and does not win a cup he will not be considered a top 10 all time. Interested to see your answer to this

 

[Arthur Morgan]

so you think that if Mcdavid continues his level of play for the next 6 or 7 years and does not win a cup he will not be considered a top 10 all time. Interested to see your answer to this

I dont see how you can place him over others in the final top 10. so yeah even if he continues this his overall rnaking will be lowered. he needs a championship man

 

[rogking65]

I dont see how you can place him over others in the final top 10. so yeah even if he continues this his overall rnaking will be lowered. he needs a championship man

a lot of people are going to laugh at your argument

 

[Civetty]

Not really, not with the system NHL currently have at least. Its easier to make this case in soccer for example because if you're that good the best teams will buy you. Sure there is the free agent part but that usually comes with hefty trades in cases like this where it makes your new team less competetive.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Imo absolutely none as it’s a team sport. However, most will likely disagree

It always does. See, e.g., the fact that there’s even a debate about who was better between Roy and Hasek.

 

[LOFIN]

Yes but also no. If he goes on to finish his career with zero cups, will that be a black mark against him (even though it's not really his fault) and a constant point of discussion? Yes. Will it affect his status in the conversation of being the greatest hockey player, if his personal numbers and achievements are there? No.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Theres not a single person in team sports that is in the greatest of all time conversation without a championship.

It absolutely will effect his legacy

Hockey doesn‘t have a GOAT conversation.

It’s Gretzky full stop.

 

[Hisch13r]

Probably. The way people talk about Ovi before and after the Cup is very different

 

[Caroline Says ll]

This obsession with championships and rings in today's sports discussion is the most annoying and least nuanced takes.

I dislike Edmonton, I dislike McDavid. If McDavid suddenly has diminished play and became a 60 point player I would be estatic. But that is not reality. McDavid is already one of the best ever to play the game. The feats he pulls off, the results he produces are truly remarkable.

A championship would be a great achievement but it is not needed for a player to have an elevated stature. The talking heads in the media like to act that anytime a cup was won it was the fearless efforts of some star that did it and that they elevated their game enough to win. This is a sport with 19 players taking the ice, where for almost two thirds you are not responsible for what happens on the ice - let alone how your goalie performs.

It is nonsense in any sport that is a team sport to judge a player for their lack of championships when they perform in their opportunities. If McDavid was putting up .5 ppg that would be a whole seperate issue. But he performs in the playoffs. This is the whole Joe Thornton issue all over. A player that got close, performed in the playoffs but never won so he is somehow less of a player.

What absolute nonsense.

 

[Sentinel]

If this were a poll (why isn't it?), the answers would be something like 90% "yes" and 10% "no."

Winning the Cup is absolutely crucial to be considered among the "greatest."

That said, Ovechkin did not really change his game to win. He changed it to adjust to his age, but Capitals were always a Pittsburgh (or a Halak-Montreal) away from winning the Cup. After Pittsburgh won two in a row and got tired, Capitals finally pushed through.

 

[lionsDen]

He's also 5th all-time for playoff points per game (filtered for 10 GP).

Until he wins in the post season that’s a huge black mark on a fairly flawless record.

 

[rogking65]

If this were a poll (why isn't it?), the answers would be something like 90% "yes" and 10% "no."

Winning the Cup is absolutely crucial to be considered among the "greatest."

That said, Ovechkin did not really change his game to win. He changed it to adjust to his age, but Capitals were always a Pittsburgh (or a Halak-Montreal) away from winning the Cup. After Pittsburgh won two in a row and got tired, Capitals finally pushed through.

because you say so.....I think I may have used that argument when I was 5 yrs old