Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - offseason edition

[NJDevs26]

Yeah this has to be on the record to have his name attributed to it.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Who would be a cheaper and better option? I am struggling to find anyone in free agency

I think Klingberg is much better overall; DeAngelo might take a bigger contract, and is a big upgrade if we were looking for offense. Manson is certainly better on the D side and with PP time could put up better point totals. Chiarot is a pretty good player. Lybushkin or Zadorov would bring more of what we need. If we wanted to kick the tires on RFAs there is Bear and Sandin out there who need changes of scenery and have reasonably high ceilings. Maybe none of the guys could eat Severson's minutes - but Severson couldn't eat his minutes either.

 

[Eggtimer]

Who would be a cheaper and better option? I am struggling to find anyone in free agency

Letang … he will sign with us , and join Malkin and Fleury on league minimum deals with us to get payback on the Pens for casting them off.….
Nico becomes our 4C replacing McLeod (only if Nico can improve his FO%) after Wright and Malkin take up two C spots

 

[Bcap88]

Yea so you completely ignored what I said at the end.

Because it’s irrelevant if he’s 1c-2c or 3c if he’s getting 18 minutes a game. What if I told you Tampa’s top three centers in stamkos,point and cirelli all averaged over 18 min a game same thing can be done in this situation if it were to occur

 

[ninetyeight]

I think trading Smith right now would be a mistake. I don't think his value can drop much from here. But there's a chance he bounces back and you can then trade him with high value or keep him.

He was outstanding in the juniors, one of the best dmen in the league and he had a great rookie year in the NHL. Getting rid of him after one bad season (especially with all the goalie issues, injuries and covid) could be a mistake. Right now I doubt he fetches even a 2nd round pick, so we should just see if he can figure things out. Would have to assume he'll at least be better next season, even if he doesn't quite reach his potential.

 

[Buggsy]

I think trading Smith right now would be a mistake. I don't think his value can drop much from here. But there's a chance he bounces back and you can then trade him with high value or keep him.

He was outstanding in the juniors, one of the best dmen in the league and he had a great rookie year in the NHL. Getting rid of him after one bad season (especially with all the goalie issues, injuries and covid) could be a mistake. Right now I doubt he fetches even a 2nd round pick, so we should just see if he can figure things out. Would have to assume he'll at least be better next season, even if he doesn't quite reach his potential.

But where is he playing?

 

[tailfins]

I think trading Smith right now would be a mistake. I don't think his value can drop much from here. But there's a chance he bounces back and you can then trade him with high value or keep him.

He was outstanding in the juniors, one of the best dmen in the league and he had a great rookie year in the NHL. Getting rid of him after one bad season (especially with all the goalie issues, injuries and covid) could be a mistake. Right now I doubt he fetches even a 2nd round pick, so we should just see if he can figure things out. Would have to assume he'll at least be better next season, even if he doesn't quite reach his potential.

Disagree that his value is that low.

First, the Devils aren’t trading smith for futures - so 2nd round pick isn’t happening.

Next, GMs know what he did in junior. They’ll value his potential.

I think Smith could be a very valuable piece for a team that’s in cap trouble, but thinks they already have pieces to win (e.g., maybe Minnesota or Vancouver).

You’re right, though, that any team trading for him has to assume Smith will improve with more games and a better system.

 

[theoptimist]

I think trading Smith right now would be a mistake. I don't think his value can drop much from here. But there's a chance he bounces back and you can then trade him with high value or keep him.

He was outstanding in the juniors, one of the best dmen in the league and he had a great rookie year in the NHL. Getting rid of him after one bad season (especially with all the goalie issues, injuries and covid) could be a mistake. Right now I doubt he fetches even a 2nd round pick, so we should just see if he can figure things out. Would have to assume he'll at least be better next season, even if he doesn't quite reach his potential.

His value drops the longer we hold on to him. The first sentence of your second paragraph is why we should trade him.

 

[MauDevils]

Trading Smith is addition by subtraction. Unless you're sending him to the minors.

He's analytically one of the worst defenseman in the league and doesn't deserve his spot.

 

[ninetyeight]

His value drops the longer we hold on to him. The first sentence of your second paragraph is why we should trade him.

You don't know that. If this season was just a sophomore slump and he continues where he left in his rookie season, his value is gonna multiple by a lot. Everyone is so impatient in these forums. Smith has only had one bad season in his whole career and now you know for sure that that is who he's gonna be from now on.

I rather hold on to prospects and see them fail, than trade them for nothing and see them flourish on another team.

 

[Clam Jensen]

I think Klingberg is much better overall; DeAngelo might take a bigger contract, and is a big upgrade if we were looking for offense. Manson is certainly better on the D side and with PP time could put up better point totals. Chiarot is a pretty good player. Lybushkin or Zadorov would bring more of what we need. If we wanted to kick the tires on RFAs there is Bear and Sandin out there who need changes of scenery and have reasonably high ceilings. Maybe none of the guys could eat Severson's minutes - but Severson couldn't eat his minutes either.

Wasn’t Chiarot Florida’s worst defenseman analytically in the playoffs? I can’t believe MON for a 1st for him.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Ty Smith was not that bad his last 30 games of the season. He started off as one of the worst players in the NHL but finished okay. I wouldn’t be opposed to dealing him if we’re getting something of value back. It’s definitely stupid to just dump him though, he has potential.

 

[McDuffz88]

You don't know that. If this season was just a sophomore slump and he continues where he left in his rookie season, his value is gonna multiple by a lot. Everyone is so impatient in these forums. Smith has only had one bad season in his whole career and now you know for sure that that is who he's gonna be from now on.

I rather hold on to prospects and see them fail, than trade them for nothing and see them flourish on another team.

Problem with Smith is that there's a 95% chance he doesn't make the team which will significantly drop his value to the point of being worthless. That 3rd LD spot is going to be a battle between Bahl, Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin & Smith. Bahl & Okhotuik already looked much better then Smith & their playstyle fits perfect with the team. They bring elements that this team is severely lacking. Bahl & Okhotuik are shutting people down & laying down the body. Smith on the other hand just has a redundant playstyle. Even if he rebounds to his rookie season I still don't see a place for him. Whatever skillset he brings we already got other defenseman who do it much better. Hamilton & Severson will always be on the PP over him. This year we really need to attempt the playoffs. We just can't do that with the liability Smith is especially when we got other defenders in the system who bring a game we desperately need. Next season Luke Hughes joins the team. After Hughes joins consider Smith's career as a NJ Devil dead on arrival. To add to this Smith is not only slow, he is soft as a baby, and has 0 defense to his game. That's not what you want out of your #6 dman especially when you're going to have 3 other offensive dmen. So Smith either makes the team this year (which he won't) & then by next year when Hughes joins Smiths career is over. The odds aren't in his favor. This is why we trade him now while he still has some value because after this season he will be worthless. Regardless I just don't see how he fits in the long-term plans of this team.

 

[devilsblood]

This team needs talent everywhere and anywhere I wouldn’t turn away someone good just because “we have guys”. Same goes for draft

It's not about turning guys away, it's about allocating a finite amount of assets to building a team.

Take drafting Cooley for instance. I'm against the idea. Not because I don't think Cooley is a good player who can help the team, but because we only have one 2nd OA pick, so if we take Cooley we are passing up an opportunity to fill actual needs, whether that be a big strong winger, or perhaps a high end RHD.

 

[devilsblood]

Ty Smith was not that bad his last 30 games of the season. He started off as one of the worst players in the NHL but finished okay. I wouldn’t be opposed to dealing him if we’re getting something of value back. It’s definitely stupid to just dump him though, he has potential.

Like my thoughts on trading Holtz for say Fiala, it's not about dumping Smith. It's about trading a guy who has questions but still has value.

I'd stick Smith in the AHL, keep him for depth, and hope he finds his game before I sell at a severe discount.

Problem with Smith is that there's a 95% chance he doesn't make the team which will significantly drop his value to the point of being worthless. That 3rd LD spot is going to be a battle between Bahl, Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin & Smith. Bahl & Okhotuik already looked much better then Smith & their playstyle fits perfect with the team. They bring elements that this team is severely lacking. Bahl & Okhotuik are shutting people down & laying down the body. Smith on the other hand just has a redundant playstyle. Even if he rebounds to his rookie season I still don't see a place for him. Whatever skillset he brings we already got other defenseman who do it much better. Hamilton & Severson will always be on the PP over him. This year we really need to attempt the playoffs. We just can't do that with the liability Smith is especially when we got other defenders in the system who bring a game we desperately need. Next season Luke Hughes joins the team. After Hughes joins consider Smith's career as a NJ Devil dead on arrival. To add to this Smith is not only slow, he is soft as a baby, and has 0 defense to his game. That's not what you want out of your #6 dman especially when you're going to have 3 other offensive dmen. So Smith either makes the team this year (which he won't) & then by next year when Hughes joins Smiths career is over. The odds aren't in his favor. This is why we trade him now while he still has some value because after this season he will be worthless. Regardless I just don't see how he fits in the long-term plans of this team.

We do need to consider who the RHD addition is. If we find a veteran d-oriented RHD, then maybe Smith is the better fit next to that guy then Bahl or OK.

 

[My3Sons]

It's not about turning guys away, it's about allocating a finite amount of assets to building a team.

Take drafting Cooley for instance. I'm against the idea. Not because I don't think Cooley is a good player who can help the team, but because we only have one 2nd OA pick, so if we take Cooley we are passing up an opportunity to fill actual needs, whether that be a big strong winger, or perhaps a high end RHD.

At the second overall pick I hope they pick the guy they think is most likely to become an impact player regardless of position. If that’s Cooley, so be it. They can try him as a wing or move Hischier to wing or whatever works if he forces their hand. NJ can pick for need in every other round. If they have two or three guys lumped together then need is certainly a valid tie breaker. My guess is that th try do see a number of guys close based on Fitz’s comments so we will see. Hopefully they don’t trade the pick for a player who will leave as a UFA in one or two years.

 

[devilsblood]

At the second overall pick I hope they pick the guy they think is most likely to become an impact player regardless of position. If that’s Cooley, so be it. They can try him as a wing or move Hischier to wing or whatever works if he forces their hand. NJ can pick for need in every other round. If they have two or three guys lumped together then need is certainly a valid tie breaker. My guess is that th try do see a number of guys close based on Fitz’s comments so we will see. Hopefully they don’t trade the pick for a player who will leave as a UFA in one or two years.

Two points.

1)I always point back to this, but if Cooley is clearly the better player, then yeah, thats the pick. But by most accounts Slaf is right there, if not ahead of Cooley.

2)Sure you could move Cooley to wing, but does he lose some effectiveness there? I don't know, but a lot of people think we've seen that with Hughes, so it's a maybe with Cooley who sounds like a somewhat similar player (que STI ranting how they are not the least bit similar).

I'm also wary of yet another sub 6' fwd. And I'm not saying small fwd's can not be great players. But our top 6 is pretty small, and they have had trouble staying on the ice. So to add another little guy to the mix, especially when a big huge guy, who again looks to be a high end talent, is also available? I'm easily taking the big guy.

And if the big guy is gone I'm looking to trade down to get one of the RHD.

 

[My3Sons]

Two points.

1)I always point back to this, but if Cooley is clearly the better player, then yeah, thats the pick. But by most accounts Slaf is right there, if not ahead of Cooley.

2)Sure you could move Cooley to wing, but does he lose some effectiveness there? I don't know, but a lot of people think we've seen that with Hughes, so it's a maybe with Cooley who sounds like a somewhat similar player (que STI ranting how they are not the least bit similar).

I'm also wary of yet another sub 6' fwd. And I'm not saying small fwd's can not be great players. But our top 6 is pretty small, and they have had trouble staying on the ice. So to add another little guy to the mix, especially when a big huge guy, who again looks to be a high end talent, is also available? I'm easily taking the big guy.

And if the big guy is gone I'm looking to trade down to get one of the RHD.

My guess is they take Slafkovsky. He’s a talented multi-dimensional forward not a semi-skilled big lug which seems to be the main criticism he faces.

 

[Rhodes 81]

Draft Slafkovsky
Sign Nichushkin for 6.5-7.5, maybe higher if it's a short term deal
Re-sign PK or sign an equivalent stopgap vet (no d worth investing in available right now). Unless there is smoke to the Ethan Bear rumors in which case figure out what he costs and pay it within reason
Sign Bratt for 8 years now, because his price will continue to increase
Figure out what to do with Wood, Zacha, and some of the tweener prospects who have ticking clocks.

To me, the only real hard decision is in net. I would prefer to bring back Blackwood as a 1b with one last chance to prove he can be more. But if the relationship is toast then trade him for futures assets that can be used to buy a new goalie.

I'm intrigued by Lehner if he's available. I don't think he's a long-term solution, but we are probably one of the few teams that wouldn't demand a huge draft pick payment to take on his contract. There's nobody else available right now that's worth their respective baggage for the risk, imo. Sign one of the mediocre depth options available as well and hope that Lehner, Goalie b, Bernier, and our AHLers can piece together a season at least better enough than last year to look average. Punt this to the future to solve long-term when hopefully you can pick out someone that's more of a sure thing.

Let's say we send Zacha for Lehner and a mid pick, send Smith and some futures for Bear, and pick up some future picks for Blackwood to make moves mid-season or next year to hunt for a better goalie if Lehner doesn't bounce back.

Opening night lines:
Sharangovich-Hughes-Nichushkin
Slafkovsky-Hischier-Bratt
Boqvist-Mercer-Holtz
Wood/whoever-McLeod-Zetterlund

Seigenthaler-Severson
Graves-Hamilton
Bahl-Bear

Lehner
Some guy

Still weak depth on D, but what can you do when nobody good to sign and Luke is likely back at Michigan? At least you have a competent NHL top 9 forwards. Holtz should help the power play and long-term you still need he or Slaf to move Nichushkin or Sharangovich down, but I'm confident Jack could make something happen with those two for now.

 

[ninetyeight]

Problem with Smith is that there's a 95% chance he doesn't make the team which will significantly drop his value to the point of being worthless. That 3rd LD spot is going to be a battle between Bahl, Okhotiuk, Mukhamadullin & Smith. Bahl & Okhotuik already looked much better then Smith & their playstyle fits perfect with the team. They bring elements that this team is severely lacking. Bahl & Okhotuik are shutting people down & laying down the body.

You make a fair point, but your dislike for Smith makes you sound a tad biased. 95% chance he doesn't make the team is just ridiculous. If he isn't traded I think there's a better chance he makes the team than Bahl or Okhotyuk. You're way too optimistic about our defensive depth, lets be honest we really just have Hamilton Siegs Severson and Graves (who some don't like either), the rest of the slots are wide open. Hughes is at least a year away, I'd be thrilled if Shakir is already NHL ready but I seriously doubt it. Bahl looked decent the last few games this season, but the most part he looks more lost than Smith. Okhotyuk also had his moments, but didn't think he looked NHL caliber just yet.

All your arguments are based on the fact that Smith continues to play like he did this season, and no way should he make the team then. I personally hope he blows his competition away and gets back on track. If he doesn't then send him down, get rid of him whatever. My whole argument is never sell low.

 

[Eggtimer]

You don't know that. If this season was just a sophomore slump and he continues where he left in his rookie season, his value is gonna multiple by a lot. Everyone is so impatient in these forums. Smith has only had one bad season in his whole career and now you know for sure that that is who he's gonna be from now on.

I rather hold on to prospects and see them fail, than trade them for nothing and see them flourish on another team.

But like others have said, where does he play? He has been so bad that he brings down the entire team. Giving him a roster spot even if he is outplayed by Bahl Okhotiuk Mukhamadoulin is crazy . As soon as you send him to Utica his value is probanly deminished.
Trade him now while we can. Talk to the Kings who have a shot load of RHD and need LHD .

 

[Oneiro]

I get being wary about size but it's also pretty reasonable to be wary about the history of top 5 forwards coming from Liiga, most of whom have seemed quite unprepared for the NHL (Kotkaniemi, Laine, Kakko, Puljujaarvi). But Barkov and Rantanen on the other hand too, so I get it.

I usually don't even consider personality, but I do like Slaf's directness and charisma, maybe ego to some. I think that alone can have a big say in him not becoming Zacha 2.0. (And yes, I acknowledge he's a quite different player to Zacha, but I'm talking about having an underwhelming enigmatic talent.)

In general, I can't say it matters to me much who they pick from Wright, Slafkovsky, Nemec, Jiricek or Cooley. I want another Mercer-caliber player out of it and if we get that, I'm fine. I think we can afford to take the gamble on Slaf, but I'm not losing sleep over Cooley being too similar.

 

[ninetyeight]

But like others have said, where does he play? He has been so bad that he brings down the entire team. Giving him a roster spot even if he is outplayed by Bahl Okhotiuk Mukhamadoulin is crazy . As soon as you send him to Utica his value is probanly deminished.
Trade him now while we can. Talk to the Kings who have a shot load of RHD and need LHD .

You are all misunderstanding my point. This season's Ty Smith shouldn't play anywhere. The point is to give him a chance to bounce back and earn his spot in the team. He's a 22 yo defensemen ffs! And a one with excellent junior career and potential. You don't just get rid of a guy like that for nothing just because you hated his play on an injury ridden season with league's worst goaltending.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

You are all misunderstanding my point. This season's Ty Smith shouldn't play anywhere. The point is to give him a chance to bounce back and earn his spot in the team. He's a 22 yo defensemen ffs! And a one with excellent junior career and potential. You don't just get rid of a guy like that for nothing just because you hated his play on an injury ridden season with league's worst goaltending.

Agree with this, there's no way he gets shipped out unless it's after training camp and he's clearly dropped below Bahl, Okhotyuk, and Muk on the depth chart. I mean he's a year younger than Reilly Walsh, who just played his first NHL game and had his first AHL season where he looked like something more than a one-dimensional offensive D. There's no reason not to be patient with him unless you get an offer you can't pass up (which you won't).

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

Because it’s irrelevant if he’s 1c-2c or 3c if he’s getting 18 minutes a game. What if I told you Tampa’s top three centers in stamkos,point and cirelli all averaged over 18 min a game same thing can be done in this situation if it were to occur

so you think wright is gunna be a career 40 point player? oof...I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say here. Cirelli is a depth player, idk why you're even talking about him.