Post-Game Talk: Devils lose 6-1 to the Flyers; should it cost someone their job?

[captainscott]

They aren’t firing guys over a loss when everyone is sick. I get that the tough talkers here don’t believe in “excuses” but actual context, otherwise known as fact, often called reality, supersedes the irrational emotional reactions on this board.

Now pro sports bread and butter is loyal fans’ irrational, emotional responses and I’m not a robot and I get it and have a loads of them too (or I wouldn’t spend time and money on this dumb team).

But with the illnesses and COVID protocols (and the NHL is imploding with them right now) and the goalie crisis (and that’s a full blown crisis if Bernier is broken) you aren’t giving any new coach a stable starting part.

There isn’t a AC I want as interim coach and I don’t want Dineen dragged up here this second because I’m frustrated. So interim coaches are a bad idea.

The coaches that got fired all had been there a lot longer, this would be a ridiculously quick hook. And the “it’s been 10 years!” doesn’t actually have anything to do with Fitz or this team, he can’t make panic moves because of that.

Assistants don’t get fired midseason because it’s hard to replace them midseason and the point wouldn’t be to punish Recchi, it would be to improve upon him. (I would like someone new there, and Fitz wants to throw a new guy into the mix that would be cool, but it typically doesn’t happen.)

This team had a hobbled goalie tandem that was together for 17 games. We had all three of our “too many centers!” for 7 1/2 games.

This is partly a depth issue and lots of people saw it coming, for instance, it wouldn’t have killed Fitz to get a very good veteran forward to solidify the bottom six when we had the cap space instead of just dumpsters diving with PTOs. Fitz isn’t blameless here.

But it can’t be fixed today and he’s not firing a sick coach who lost with a sick team. (And yes, we were losing before that but that’s what just happened in what people are arguing is “a must fire” game. It’s not that because of the context, it just sucks a ton.)

If the team improves this season AND Fitz takes that as a sign to stick with this whole staff I will lose my shit then because that’s honestly the worst case scenario.

your assessment is well thought out.... however you are making excuses over 1 game...Every team deals with illness and injury the devils are not special... I don't know what good firing the coach does either at this point as I see a problem with the roster. But my issue with this roster that it would prob get pushed around in the playoffs and need to add pieces.. this thing seems to be falling apart at the wheels. and all the forwards play exactly the same way.... even our bigger forwards... vesey, zacha, shara... may as well be 5-8 170 they dont play a mean game.. thats why they brought bastian back.. but he is a fourth line player and an average one at that along with mcleod.. they need 2-3 wingers that bring a size and physicality element..( patrick maroon type) guys.. im sure its not easy to just snap your fingers and get that but teams lick their chops when they see the devils on their schedule and have been for years

 

[Eggtimer]

Landeskog was named captain after one year in the league. Brady Tkachuk was just named captain after 3. There are examples of others being named captain early on, even without the accolades.

Didn't seem to affect the Avs too much. They had awful seasons after he was named captain and they stuck with it. Now they're one of the better teams in the league. What did change was their talent.

The captain thing is such a non-issue I really don't get it at all. Stripping Nico of the captaincy isn't going to make him play better. It's not going to make Bratt, Hughes, Mercer, etc play better.

We need better players and better coaching. Doesn't matter who the captain is.

This is all especially weird to me because the captain thing is so subjective and based on stuff we have no idea about as fans. None of know how things are in that locker room. Who are we to say who are and aren't leaders on the team... I don't get it man.

You can see and tell that Tkachuk and Landeskog have captain material. You can tell by thier actions that they would not put up with shit. I can see Nico just wince with his wince face and not say much or i cannot see how he is the type of captain that is needed. Just my 2 cents

 

[billingtons ghost]

You thought that when Daws and Wedge were in the net and we lost 5-3?

People crap on our goaltenders, but occasionally they play really well and everyone forgets. It's possible I don't remember the game as well as I thought I did, but I thought it easily could've been 8 or 9. There's been a few games like that this season... and I guess its thankful that we only destroyed Bernier with an 8 goal shellacking to get him on IR.

People wonder how Cory got hurt - well, this is pretty much it. Coming from an ex-goaltender here, there's nothing funner than trying to turn yourself inside out for a save... that is until the previously perfect hip flexor or some other ligament pops out of the little channel its supposed to be in because you're fatigued from standing on your head all night.

And while a visibly ill MB29 sure let in a stinker or two - I don't know how you can expect to win breaking records for Cam Atkinson breakaways in a game.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I’m testy over the idiotic “strip Nico of C” plan more than anything, particularly in response to game where his absence was a problem.

And I don’t see how his performance is sullying the C either. I don’t see the problem because “ohhh, don’t give the magic special letter to anyone until a very special person walks in” is super goofy and I literally don’t believe Nico doesn’t “deserve” it.

I think almost the opposite is true. Carrying the C is a burden in any sport unless you're the right type of guy. I thought Elias was a terribad choice and he was rightfully stripped. I think Nico of 26 might be a perfect choice. I think Nico of 20 is a terrible choice because it puts undo pressure on a player to NOT just be himself and play his game.

If you LIKE the idea of him dropping the gloves - and I somewhat do, in that he doesn't want to put up with crap - but I kinda don't, as I'd rather have some other knucklehead there for the purpose so that he's not out with a broken knuckle for two months, seeing as he's really our defacto leader/#1C/whatever...

I know some people are saying it to slight Nico, but I'm saying it just for his own personal good and development.

 

[NJDevs26]

While I don't disagree it looks like they jumped the gun giving Nico the C, there's nothing other than Sutter's or anyone else's own bias to suggest Elias was weighed down by the C or whatever other nonsense justification was used by Sutter at the time to make Patty a one and done. He had 69 points in 75 games the season he was the C and the Devils made the second round of the playoffs while he had 55 points in 74 games and a first-round exit the year after he was stripped so it wasn't exactly hindering his or the team's on-ice performance.

Whether he was ultimately the right choice or not long-term...who else was a slam dunk better choice on that team? It sure as shooting wasn't Langenbrunner, who Sutter was partial to because he was a good ol' North American grinder. And I don't think too many other people would have handled what Sutter did with more class than Patty.

 

[Cheddabombs]

You can see and tell that Tkachuk and Landeskog have captain material. You can tell by thier actions that they would not put up with shit. I can see Nico just wince with his wince face and not say much or i cannot see how he is the type of captain that is needed. Just my 2 cents

I don't think you can point to Nico's wince face as a reason he wouldn't be a good captain. That's my point, there's so much that goes into it behind the scenes that we don't know of, as fans we honestly can't tell anything. There are also different type of leaders so just because he may not fit that mold doesn't mean anything.

All that to say, it doesn't matter. Like at all. We need better players and better coaching. A different person wearing some letter will do nothing for this team.

 

[Guttersniped]

I mean id disagree that some players being sick is an excuse to get out of a firing; so what, we lose the next two as well cause of guys being sick and then we have 3 wins in 17 games?

Recchi and probably even Ruff should have been fired after the Islander game. Last night only made it a must happen because we got embarrassed by the leagues worst team in the last 20 games, and being sick isnt an excuse to getting dominated by them

It’s not “excuse”, it’s was a big contributing factor last night. That’s how human bodies function.

It’s not like I’m Team Ruff here and I should probably let everyone vent in peace, but injuries and sickness aren’t ever excuses. We have other problems and flaws too. All those things can be true at once. (And even if you think they should have been fired before, that still doesn’t change the fact that Fitz won’t fire the sick coach with the sick team.)

“will>injuries” is a weird take. Blackwood coming in with a f***ed-up foot and Bernier having some terrible hip thing straight out of the gate was very bad for us. (We can’t have nice things like a functional NHL goalie tandem.) Colorado can continually outscore it’s goaltending issues but we can’t. (Our PK is actually humming and goaltending is making it look worse.)

And a big strength, particularly with Mercer, is our centers, but they never actually get to play together for any extended period of time because we can’t have nice things like that either.

I’m not happy after that game either (thank god it was in Philly). And it’s not just injuries and sickness or even underperformance. Fitz adding no forwards until Tartar in August and then some PTOs, after all the guys we lost and who we had, was nuts to me. I don’t even see how we could handle a bigger injury bug. We only had one key bottom six guy injured (Wood) and it sucks down there. And there’s no way he saw Mercer blooming early like this. Every GM adds more dudes than that and clever pick-ups can be a lifesaver (it’s called team building). It feels more like another “let the kids play” year or wishful thinking to the point of delusion, neither of which is good.

Say what you will about Shero, he made nice supplemental adds and making the bottom six completely out of our AHL team (and a PTO) is a weird plan.

I’m also not saying results don’t matter, you just have to be smart about when you make a big change. It’s not “save the season!” panic time right this very second and more about picking your spot and getting a great staff. You can’t be completely reactionary, this is about setting up for the future.

We have to see what happens with COVID and illness in the locker room first. Fitz certainly can’t bring in a new guy without doing something about the goaltending first.

Like many here, I grew up with Lou dropping the hammer all the time and he didn’t do it because those coaches were intrinsically bad (well MacLean was bad) but because it wasn’t working.

Shero keeping Hynes, with the same staff!, even after 2019-20 was a terrible idea. Just madness. It will have only been two years and Ruff might be a good guy, but his system is breaking their brains.
Maybe the team could have a awesome season under Ruff next year, but who f***ing cares about him getting more chances. Move on.

My real concern, and I’m actually quite concerned about this, is that the team will improve somewhat and Fitz will point to the hardships and say “it’s not fair to the coaching staff” to blame them blah blah blah. And that means, for some godforsaken reason, we’re required to start this all over again with these four dudes next year. If Fitz is a loyalty guy who considers the current coaches’ well-being (or whatever the f*** Shero’s Hynes and Co ride or die was all about) instead of the team’s like Shero did, f***ing fire his ass. Coaches are tools you use to win and are very replaceable and no hard feelings fellas, Lou taught me that.

Also to throw in some armchair psychology, I don’t think the players are particularly tuning out Ruff now, but they are wearing down. The players deserve a fresh start without the COVID misery period guy. That’s not “fair” to Ruff but life’s not fair.

Maybe a midseason change happens in a bit (I doubt it though) or should happen. I don’t know the future. This is subjective. Maybe I’m not being fair to Ruff, but I’m a STH and I can’t take him trying to make “why yes, opposing team, you can have large swaths of the middle of the ice in our zone, including the area in front of our goalie, but if we have the puck (which at times we all stare at like a hypnotist’s watch) watch out! We’re extra-zoomy!” a thing.

 

[Oneiro]

I’m testy over the idiotic “strip Nico of C” plan more than anything, particularly in response to game where his absence was a problem.

And I don’t see how his performance is sullying the C either. I don’t see the problem because “ohhh, don’t give the magic special letter to anyone until a very special person walks in” is super goofy and I literally don’t believe Nico doesn’t “deserve” it.

Landeskog was named captain after one year in the league. Brady Tkachuk was just named captain after 3. There are examples of others being named captain early on, even without the accolades.

Didn't seem to affect the Avs too much. They had awful seasons after he was named captain and they stuck with it. Now they're one of the better teams in the league. What did change was their talent.

The captain thing is such a non-issue I really don't get it at all. Stripping Nico of the captaincy isn't going to make him play better. It's not going to make Bratt, Hughes, Mercer, etc play better.

We need better players and better coaching. Doesn't matter who the captain is.

This is all especially weird to me because the captain thing is so subjective and based on stuff we have no idea about as fans. None of know how things are in that locker room. Who are we to say who are and aren't leaders on the team... I don't get it man.

I agree the stripping of the C is melodramatic and really, I don't care about the C - I point to it as an example of showing good faith that hasn't been returned with a better level of play. I'm all for letting the talent grow but the past two weeks have been flat out embarrassing, even for me. There seemed to be an improved ability to bounce back earlier in the year - I was satisfied with seeing them fight back and stay at or above .500. That was baby-steps to me. But like clockwork, we're back in the mud with a more expensive defense and the same year one mistakes. I don't expect a linear uptrend but I think you have to make a distinction between growing pains and a harmful status quo.

Nico's on, what, a 52 pt pace with a full camp and summer. Is there no benchmark for growth ever? Are we going to keep deferring to the territorial CF% battle and a low shooting % to justify how good he is? Are we always going to talk about goal-tending and the lack of vet support on the wing, like these guys are prisoners to fate until the GM puts on his Santa cap?

The jump in Bratt's game is one thing that gives me hope that all these players are better than they've shown and it's genuinely about patience and having the right strategy to glue the group together. That there is a breakthrough coming. But pinning all results to the talent level of the roster while pushing the self-inflicted mistakes under the rug seems just as short-sighted to me. For the first time since Shero took over, I really feel sorry for the fanbase at large having to watch some of the carelessness repeat itself over and over.

 

[Guttersniped]

People crap on our goaltenders, but occasionally they play really well and everyone forgets. It's possible I don't remember the game as well as I thought I did, but I thought it easily could've been 8 or 9. There's been a few games like that this season... and I guess its thankful that we only destroyed Bernier with an 8 goal shellacking to get him on IR.

People wonder how Cory got hurt - well, this is pretty much it. Coming from an ex-goaltender here, there's nothing funner than trying to turn yourself inside out for a save... that is until the previously perfect hip flexor or some other ligament pops out of the little channel its supposed to be in because you're fatigued from standing on your head all night.

And while a visibly ill MB29 sure let in a stinker or two - I don't know how you can expect to win breaking records for Cam Atkinson breakaways in a game.

Oh, if saying we’re leaving our goalies out to dry, then yes, I agree with you.

 

[tr83]

Lol...Recchi is still employed

 

[Call Me Al]

wait we’re behind philly in the standings? lmao

 

[glenwo2]

Nico is the least of this teams problems..

we are not phsycial or north south enough... its a soft team.. said in pre season and saying it again.. they are small, soft and young.. with ehhh goaltending and the worst special teams in the league.

the team makeup is bad and has been for 10 years... we went from old big and slow up and down the lineup to an over correction of soft , mildly skilled players.

honestly at this point Fitz has to find a trading partner. its gotta be a big trade 2 or 3 player swap.. we build around hughes/ hischier... but its time to cut bait with some of the other forwards and defensman. may have to be a zacha/smith and number 1 pick type of deal to bring in a true power winger and stay at home dman or something etc.... would hate to lose bratt but maybe you get something while he is on fire.... i don't know.. this team....it doesn't work i don't care what coach you have... its the team first and foremost.

So we trade away one of our most talented players for another(hopefully) talented player and we are left with the same situation as we were before.

I would rather add to our limited talent pool instead of rearranging the chairs of the Titanic.

 

[Bleedred]

wait we’re behind philly in the standings? lmao

We may as well be on a 10 game losing streak as it is, just like they were.

Our only two wins like the last 11 games were against them.

We only even have one shootout/OT loss in those 11 too. 2-10-1. Ouch.

The writing was already on the wall at some point in November, but we kept getting games to overtime and the shootout and it was getting us some points. Now all those losses are happening in regulation and we’re winning even less.

 

[Sheros expletives]

At this point i'm just ready to bottom out and go for 1 oa, again. This stretch just killed all optimism.