Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason part III

[Devil X]

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[devilsblood]

From Jim:

"Severson is 22 years old who has played for one one of the worst teams in the NHL for the last 3 years... Shattenkirk is 28 years old had 3 full years at BU before he entered the NHL and Kevin never really played on a bad team...

Not sure why the comparison is happening, but Severson will be a better all around Defenseman than Shattenkirk, no question about it."

Well this was not my first post making that comparison, but I was very much saying why are we so enthralled by 27 yr old Shattenkirk when at es he's playing on par with a 22 yr old Severson who people by no means feel had a big time offensive season.

But I agree I think it's very possible, that Severson will take a step up in his play, and will be a better es d-man then Shattenkirk. Very possible it happens next season.


Now PP? That's another story.

 

[Classic Devil]

So. Do we really think McLeod could make the team out of camp? And if so, where do we expect him to slot in? Could he start at RW (he is a right handed shot) and transition to center over time? Would it be worth having him as 4th line center when that would likely mean displacing Blandisi, or should he go back to the Trout?

 

[devilsblood]

I think McLeod will be in the NJ next season. I would not use him on the 4th line. Mid 6 RW, maybe 3rd line C.

 

[Blender]

He's an offensive defenseman PP guy, I'm not sure why this is either surprising or a large mark against him. We shouldn't be signing him to be the guy nightly. He'd be coming in to play the old Rafalski role - the key supplemental piece.

For sure that's what he'd be coming into to do, but is that worth $7 million plus per season for 7 years? I don't think it is, and that's what he will likely cost and what others are comfortable paying. Successful organizations don't tie themselves down with mid level players making upper level money.

 

[Classic Devil]

For sure that's what he'd be coming into to do, but is that worth $7 million plus per season for 7 years? I don't think it is, and that's what he will likely cost and what others are comfortable paying. Successful organizations don't tie themselves down with mid level players making upper level money.

We paid Rafalski $6M for the same role back in the day, and that was a greater percentage of the cap at the time. And when he left, we noticed.

 

[Blender]

We paid Rafalski $6M for the same role back in the day, and that was a greater percentage of the cap at the time. And when he left, we noticed.

I don't think Shattenkirk is anywhere near as good positionally as Rafalski was. Rafalski had his weaknesses for sure, but the guy wasn't getting burned regularly like Shattenkirk does. Rafalski was generally in the right spot at the right time. Shattenkirk is a very good offensive player, and I take him on the team in a second, but not at the price and term he's going to get in free agency.

Shattenkirk played on the 3rd pairing in St. Louis and the 3rd pairing in Washington. Washington doesn't even have what anyone would consider a top defenseman and Shattenkirk was still playing sheltered minutes. He gets a ton of power play time for obvious reasons, and that's his specialty. He was 4th in points among defensemen this year, but 18th in even strength points.

 

[Classic Devil]

I don't think Shattenkirk is anywhere near as good positionally as Rafalski was. Rafalski had his weaknesses for sure, but the guy wasn't getting burned regularly like Shattenkirk does. Rafalski was generally in the right spot at the right time. Shattenkirk is a very good offensive player, and I take him on the team in a second, but not at the price and term he's going to get in free agency.

Shattenkirk played on the 3rd pairing in St. Louis and the 3rd pairing in Washington. Washington doesn't even have what anyone would consider a top defenseman and Shattenkirk was still playing sheltered minutes. He gets a ton of power play time for obvious reasons, and that's his specialty. He was 4th in points among defensemen this year, but 18th in even strength points.

I'm not sure what choice we have. If we want to take the next step towards being competitive, we're going to need to take risks on a UFA player or two, else we're going to burn what's left of Schneider's prime for nothing.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm not sure what choice we have. If we want to take the next step towards being competitive, we're going to need to take risks on a UFA player or two, else we're going to burn what's left of Schneider's prime for nothing.

Realistically we won't be competing until the end of Cory's contract or even into his next one if he is still here.

The guys we are hoping to become our top players are really 2-4 years away from being real impact guys simply due to their age.

Doesn't mean Shero shouldn't be trying to put a playoff team together next year, but his moves need to make sense both now and multiple years in the future (something he has been doing with his trades. He isn't bringing any older players in on big deals).

I don't think Shero sees Cory's age as a deadline or a definition on how he needs to build like people on this board do.

 

[Classic Devil]

Realistically we won't be competing until the end of Cory's contract or even into his next one if he is still here.

That's five years from now, if we're not competing in the next five years we've done something horribly wrong. That'd be two years away from Hischier/Patrick potentially becoming UFA.

 

[Blender]

I'm not sure what choice we have. If we want to take the next step towards being competitive, we're going to need to take risks on a UFA player or two, else we're going to burn what's left of Schneider's prime for nothing.

To quote Lou, "when time's on your side, use it." We aren't going to be competitive next year, we probably won't be the year after. There is no reason for this franchise to be throwing huge money at a faulty player in Shattenkirk just because he's available right now. Risky moves to fill a need today can cost you massively down the road.

 

[Classic Devil]

To quote Lou, "when time's on your side, use it." We aren't going to be competitive next year, we probably won't be the year after. There is no reason for this franchise to be throwing huge money at a faulty player in Shattenkirk just because he's available right now. Risky moves to fill a need today can cost you massively down the road.

Time isn't on our side. Players like Shattenkirk, while flawed, don't come around every year. You can't just find one when you need one. And he's only 28, signing him now is an investment for the future. Could it backfire, yes, but having one overpriced defenseman isn't going to eliminate our freedom of action here.

 

[Bleedred]

We paid Rafalski $6M for the same role back in the day, and that was a greater percentage of the cap at the time. And when he left, we noticed.

I thought we only paid Rafalski $4.5 million on that UFA 2 year deal in 05-06? I thought it was like $9 million for two years and then Detroit signed him for $6 million a year when he walked?

Still though, salary cap was $44 million in 06-07. If the cap this next season is $73 million, that's roughly a 66% increase. So that would be like paying $7.5 million in 17-18.

Of course, Shattenkirk isn't as good as Rafalski, so he wouldn't command as much. The one thing he has going for him is he's 6 years younger than Rafalski was when he went to UFA.

 

[Bleedred]

Also

A lot of people complained about Rafalski's defense for years, especially the two years he played here after the Scott's were gone. People were complaining about his defense in the early 00's and saying Stevens needed to babysit him

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't think Shero sees Cory's age as a deadline or a definition on how he needs to build like people on this board do.

At the moment Taylor Hall's FA season is more of a deadline than Cory's age (especially if Mac Black actually develops into something). They have to at least become a playoff team at some point in the next two years otherwise why would Hall re-sign in the summer of 2019? Then you have another Parise situation only without the win-now team.

 

[Classic Devil]

I thought we only paid Rafalski $4.5 million on that UFA 2 year deal in 05-06? I thought it was like $9 million for two years and then Detroit signed him for $6 million a year when he walked?

Still though, salary cap was $44 million in 06-07. If the cap this next season is $73 million, that's roughly a 66% increase. So that would be like paying $7.5 million in 17-18.

Of course, Shattenkirk isn't as good as Rafalski, so he wouldn't command as much. The one thing he has going for him is he's 6 years younger than Rafalski was when he went to UFA.

Maybe that's right and I'm misremembering because of the contract he signed with Detroit.

Shattenkirk is roughly the same age as Rafalski was when he joined the Devils in 2000.

 

[NJDevs26]

Also

A lot of people complained about Rafalski's defense for years, especially the two years he played here after the Scott's were gone. People were complaining about his defense in the early 00's and saying Stevens needed to babysit him

Rafalski never got any respect around here, even after he saved our bacon waiting around a few days for Nieds to decide before re-signing in 2006 when our D could have REALLY gone in the crapper with both leaving at the same time after the lockout. In a way playing with Stevens/Lidstrom was a blessing and a curse. It caused him to be underrated because he played with two all-time players, but by the same token coaches trusted him enough to be on those pairings. And in between he did his best being the top guy on workmanlike defenses and got **** on for not being 4 or 27.

 

[Blender]

Rafalski was 13th in even strength time on ice per game among defensemen when taking everyone with over 200 games played between 99-00 to 10-11. He was 2nd in even strength points over his career, only behind Lidstrom. Was he a defensive juggernaut like Stevens? Of course not, but you don't play that many even strength minutes consistently over a decade unless you can defend and coach's trust you to reliably do it.

Shattenkirk isn't nearly the even strength scorer Rafalski was, nor has he even been trusted to log big minutes at even strength.

 

[AfroThunder396]

So. Do we really think McLeod could make the team out of camp? And if so, where do we expect him to slot in? Could he start at RW (he is a right handed shot) and transition to center over time? Would it be worth having him as 4th line center when that would likely mean displacing Blandisi, or should he go back to the Trout?

I think he has a legitimate shot as the #3C. With his work ethic, raw speed, and face off/defensive prowess he would be an immediate upgrade to our bottom-6. But he also provides more offensive threat than Kalinin/Josefson/whoever we have there.

Zajac is still producing, let him stay as a top-6 C. He has obvious chemistry with Hall and Palmieri. Let Patrick/Hischier be the #1a/1b center and see what they can do. Every elite center that comes into the league can produce immediately in a top-6 role.

Ideally Henrique is traded for defensive help. Not sure if that's really in the cards or not but at worst him and Zacha become LW for this team.

I'd rather convert Blandisi to RW than McLeod, Blandisi has limited non-offensive capability.

IMO, it comes down to what id best for McLeods's development. To me, he has nothing left to learn at the junior level. He needs superior competition. I'd rather have him tread water as an NHL #3C than just scoring lay ups against 17 year olds. Even if he's not scoring, he can contribute in many many other areas.

 

[billingtons ghost]

We paid Rafalski $6M for the same role back in the day, and that was a greater percentage of the cap at the time. And when he left, we noticed.

We noticed, true - but there are a few untruths here.

We paid him $4.2m, and in fact he had hurt his knee and wasn't the same player the last year of that contract.

He got paid 6m by Detroit, to play on an excellent team - and he certainly exceeded my expectations.

That said - I thought at the time, and still think now that it was a good 'non-sign' to let him go back home at that price - because Paul Martin and Johnny Oduya were thought to be able to fill the same role admirably.

 

[MadDevil]

I'd give McLeod his 8-9 games to start the season and see what he looks like. It would be nice to have the luxury of slotting somebody like Rico or Zacha in with him on the third line to finally give us a legit third line, which we've needed for a few years now.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Rafalski never got any respect around here, even after he saved our bacon waiting around a few days for Nieds to decide before re-signing in 2006 when our D could have REALLY gone in the crapper with both leaving at the same time after the lockout. In a way playing with Stevens/Lidstrom was a blessing and a curse. It caused him to be underrated because he played with two all-time players, but by the same token coaches trusted him enough to be on those pairings. And in between he did his best being the top guy on workmanlike defenses and got **** on for not being 4 or 27.

I don't know if this is true. He got plenty of credit and deservedly so. He was a very good player for us, and he's an excellent complement to a true #1 D like Stevens or Lidstrom.

Let's not pretend that a Brian Rafalski would be the singular backbone of your defense though.

Excellent, deflectable shot, responsible defensively, good vision, good skating - but he was already getting physically punished by taking over a #1 role on our defense, and it definitely showed.

 

[Jets012]

Brendan Smith, that was a good mention last thread. He'd probably be our best LHD in all honesty if we signed him.

 

[kiwidevil]

So the plan is to not sign any big UFA's until 2 years from now?

That is a highly risking game with Hall, Henrique, Palmieri all getting to 27+ years old. If you aren't really looking to improve the team until then. You may as well trade everyone over 26-27 now.

But I guess we could sign Mike Green and Jack Johnson next year . . . . .

 

[R8Devs]

Justin Schultz would be a really good 2nd pair option behind Severson if he explores UFA (I really doubt the Pens will qualify him). So there is an option for offense on the backend beside Shattenkirk. Although Schultz isn't as good but he wouldn't command as much either.

I wonder if the Devils are going to have some more euro UFA signings. Eric Martinsson is a LHD that I guess Sweden considers one of their top d-man not in the NHL so that could be worth a shot.

I also wonder if the Ducks would consider giving up one of their d prospects in exchange for Devils taking on a guy like Bieksa or Stoner. Bieksa has a NMC so the Ducks have to protect him but maybe if the Devils said they'd buy him out he'd consider waiving it so then he's free to sign with any team basically and that way the Ducks free up a protection slot. A guy like Jacob Larsson would be a good target in that area.