Detroit Red Wings 23/24 season thread

[OldnotDeadWings]

This is the first year for Wings being a "bubble" team. There is rarely only one season at that level. Last year the attempt to be a bubble team ended with brutal losses to Ottawa before the TDL. This year they are in it at Game 81, probably Game 82,. That's progress., in large part because strategy was changed. They went whole hog into veterans. Berggren went from 67GP to 12. Edvinsson kept away until final stretch and not an earned promotion as much as an injury replacement. If you really want to go down a rabbt hole, you could say Lalonde's instant use of Ed in the top four was a giiant F.U. to his boss's bubble-team strategy. As might have been perceived by his absolute refusal earlier to play Holl or Kostin.

Wings are building through the Draft. The Draft picks who might be part of a good future have played a total of about 500 NHL games. None of them are Kane, Crosby Ovechkin, etc. Wings won't be a good team, or the Cup contending team they are trying to build, until their Draft picks have played at least 1,000 games, perhaps closer to 1,500 depending on trades/FA. It took Boston's core group of Bergeron, Krejci, Chara (acquired at 24), about 1,000 games in Boston -- almost 1,300 including Lucic -- before their first Cup winning season. And in that season they added rookie Marchand and youngish forward Horton. It took LA's group of Kopitar, Doughty and Brown about 1,400 games of NHL experience with the KIngs before they won, and the year they won they added youngish forwards Richards and Carter.

Wings are on a track that's going to require more of their Draft picks to show up and for all of them to play a few more seasons together. Making the playoffs by one point or missing the playoffs by one point doesn't change anything. It's an almost meaningless marker of rebuild progress at this point, much more the result of the quality -- good or bad -- of place-holders and temporary bandaids than of the qualty of players who will matter. It would be great, fun to watch, useful certainly to some extent for the kids. That's it.

 

[lilidk]

That is not true at all.

Ovechkin drafted 2004. Won the cup in 2018 = 14 years
Stamkos drafted 2008. Won the cup 2020 = 12 years
Landeskog drafted 2011. Won the cup 2022 = 11 years (actually 13 years)

Avalanche are an interesting situation because they started tanking before the Landeskog pick. Matt Duchene was drafted in 2009. He was traded in 2017, and the assets he returned was for players that helped win the cup in 2022.

St. Louis Blues are the outlier. So I didn't use them as an example. Vegas were an expansion team so they are nulled in the discussion.

Seider was drafted in 2019, means we could win some time around 2032

 

[Dotter]

Seider was drafted in 2019, means we could win some time around 2032

I was shooting at being a Playoff team by 2027, so 2030-ish sounds about right.

Wings have Larkin that was drafted in 2014, but unfortunately, we didn't have our "Hedman" or "Makar" around the same time frame.

I see DRWs being like Nashville in the sense where they have 'good' years and 'meh' years, but are always considered the underdog.

Living in Nashville, I can tell you how frustrating the Preds are. But also how proud and supportive fans are of them.

 

[MabusIncarnate]

I was shooting at being a Playoff team by 2027, so 2030-ish sounds about right.

Wings have Larkin that was drafted in 2014, but unfortunately, we didn't have our "Hedman" or "Makar" around the same time frame.

I see DRWs being like Nashville in the sense where they have 'good' years and 'meh' years, but are always considered the underdog.

Living in Nashville, I can tell you how frustrating the Preds are. But also how proud and supportive fans are of them.

I live right neat Nashville also, i've been to a bunch of games, I go when the Wings are in town. The stadium is electric, the fans are friendly to fans supporting the opposing team, maybe some friendly ribbing but its very light hearted. I've experienced no one vicious or Philadelphia fan-like there. It's SO loud, meaning the fans, the cheering, the support. I was very surprised when I first went because it was one of the loudest regular season games i've ever been to across many NHL arenas. Good for them for showing so much support for hockey in Tennessee.

 

[lilidk]

I was shooting at being a Playoff team by 2027, so 2030-ish sounds about right.

Wings have Larkin that was drafted in 2014, but unfortunately, we didn't have our "Hedman" or "Makar" around the same time frame.

I see DRWs being like Nashville in the sense where they have 'good' years and 'meh' years, but are always considered the underdog.

Living in Nashville, I can tell you how frustrating the Preds are. But also how proud and supportive fans are of them.

I never followed Red Wings millennium prospects , we had very good team. What if we have already Datsyuk/Zetterberg kinda prospects, we just don't know.

 

[Dotter]

I never followed Red Wings millennium prospects , we had very good team. What if we have already Datsyuk/Zetterberg kinda prospects, we just don't know.

Wings aren't going to be a loaded team like the Maple Leafs, but I trust Yzerman will build some solid teams. Outliers like St. Louis Blues.

As Herb Brooks once said: "I'm not looking for the best players; I'm looking for the right ones."

 

[Gniwder]

Thank f*** we weren't the team who got suckered to go for Erik karlsson.

Seider, Ed, And ASP look good, there wasn't a need for a defenseman. Horvat is the player I wanted, and in hindsight I would've given up Kasper & Hronek for him.

The team would still be able to win when Larkin misses games, and NYI wouldn't be in a playoff spot right now.

 

[GarlicbreadTB]

Seider, Ed, And ASP look good, there wasn't a need for a defenseman. Horvat is the player I wanted, and in hindsight I would've given up Kasper & Hronek for him.

The team would still be able to win when Larkin misses games, and NYI wouldn't be in a playoff spot right now.

Horvat would've been good definitely.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Wings aren't going to be a loaded team like the Maple Leafs, but I trust Yzerman will build some solid teams. Outliers like St. Louis Blues.

As Herb Brooks once said: "I'm not looking for the best players; I'm looking for the right ones."

Wasn't the STL Blues cup just a once in a million fluke?

Teams that win, in particular teams that win continuously, have high end elite talent more than just a collection of hood depth players

 

[Pavels Dog]

Seider, Ed, And ASP look good, there wasn't a need for a defenseman. Horvat is the player I wanted, and in hindsight I would've given up Kasper & Hronek for him.

The team would still be able to win when Larkin misses games, and NYI wouldn't be in a playoff spot right now.

Remind me where we got ASP from.

 

[Gniwder]

Remind me where we got ASP from.

As much as I like ASP, he's at least 2 years from helping the team win games so I'd still go with Horvat.

 

[Realgud]

As much as I like ASP, he's at least 2 years from helping the team win games so I'd still go with Horvat.

I think he means ASP was picked with the pick the wings received from the Canucks in the Hronek trade, so he's saying you wouldn't have both Horvat and ASP.

 

[Dotter]

Wasn't the STL Blues cup just a once in a million fluke?

Teams that win, in particular teams that win continuously, have high end elite talent more than just a collection of hood depth players

I guess you could say in the past 10 years, three "flukes" won the cup. Kings, Blues and VGK.
There's a handful of 'elite' teams and not all of them have won it all either. In a perfect world it'd be nice to have the center depth of McKinnon, McDavid, Matthews and a top defense with Makar, Hedman, Fox, and Heiskanen. I'd even settle for a crappy goalie like Ullmark....

But here we are. No lottery luck, and development time spent on our group so far is still in its infancy stage. Maybe we have a few Bedard's, MacKinnon's and Fox's in the system yet.

What if Marty Mcfly popped in from his Delorean and said, "Great Scott, DRWs don't win the cup until 2044!"? That wouldn't even be the longest cup drought in NHL history. And there's more competition than ever now with more NHL teams and a salary cap.

All we can hope for is some draft luck. Hopefully a few kids pan out and become something special.

 

[jkutswings]

All we can hope for is some draft luck. Hopefully a few kids pan out and become something special.

I think a better plan is to take some of the overabundance of prospects they have and package them with other assets to land a better caliber of player (or two). Even if all the picks pan out, they can't all fit on the roster (and statistically, they're not all going to pan out anyway).

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I guess you could say in the past 10 years, three "flukes" won the cup. Kings, Blues and VGK.
There's a handful of 'elite' teams and not all of them have won it all either. In a perfect world it'd be nice to have the center depth of McKinnon, McDavid, Matthews and a top defense with Makar, Hedman, Fox, and Heiskanen. I'd even settle for a crappy goalie like Ullmark....

But here we are. No lottery luck, and development time spent on our group so far is still in its infancy stage. Maybe we have a few Bedard's, MacKinnon's and Fox's in the system yet.

What if Marty Mcfly popped in from his Delorean and said, "Great Scott, DRWs don't win the cup until 2044!"? That wouldn't even be the longest cup drought in NHL history. And there's more competition than ever now with more NHL teams and a salary cap.

All we can hope for is some draft luck. Hopefully a few kids pan out and become something special.

I'd disagree about LA and Vegas not having had high end elite talent...especially when compared to the ridiculous STL Blues assertion thrown around here all the time.

I agree though that we need some lotto luck and a player or two too exceed expectations substantially...

 

[Dotter]

I think a better plan is to take some of the overabundance of prospects they have and package them with other assets to land a better caliber of player (or two). Even if all the picks pan out, they can't all fit on the roster (and statistically, they're not all going to pan out anyway).

If you can package up all our abundance junk and trade it for any elite superstar talent, then I say by all means, go for it!

Fleece away. You have my full blessing.

 

[Oddbob]

1. You are being a hypocrite.
2. Listening to the talking heads on the radio is a bad argument starting point. It's not your orginal thought we all hear the radio if you drive. Don't bring Jim Harbaugh into this either... who 1 always had good teams and then cheated and also gets a new team every other year. Not apples to apples.
3. Not true, with Tampa. Way less time and he just fired an inherited coach. Again, not apples to apples.

Is Jack Eichel worth more than Compher/Copp right now? Idk, it's impossible to say if we could or couldn't have pulled that trade off, asking if it's worth it is fair, but just assume we did. I like building around Larkin/Eichel better than what we have now. He had a neck injury, true, but the issue was always about surgery or not, and Teams actually have the final say over surgery. That lead to him wanting to leave more than anything in Buffalo. (Allegedly.) It sounds so simple back basically Buffalo medical staff said no surgery needed we know beset, Eichel's side said different, Vegas agreed to the trade allowing Eichel to proceed with the surgery and injury the way HE wanted. Guys like him only become available for reasons like this or force outs.

Idk if I see a scenario now where Red Wings can get a player like that period.

What is so good about Jack Eichel? Honest question? He is at under a pt a game for his whole career, and puts up similar pts with less defence to Larkin. He also gets hurt a fair bit as well. He has 66 pts this year, Larkin has 65, and they both missed games, Larkin is also much better in the faceoff dot. Last season he was 1 pt under a pt a game just like Larkin. He costs 2 mil more a season and would have cost quite a bit to get without much better performance.

I get wanting good players, but why Eichel?

You complained that Yzerman only got DeBrincat because he only wanted Detroit, then are complaining we didn't get another good player that only got traded because he wanted out of where he was.


Every Wing fan, myself included wants us to be further along than we are, but reality is there is only so many good young players that are even available. Add to that, that players all have preferences on where they want to play and Detroit is just one of 32 teams players will want to go, meaning most don't want to come here, when we aren't winning. Also need to remember that Yzerman is known for being tight lipped, meaning just because you didn't hear any rumours, doesn't mean that Yzerman hasn't gone big game hunting. We didn't know about the Hronek trade until it happened, there could easily be other attempts that just didn't go through.

 

[Oddbob]

I think a better plan is to take some of the overabundance of prospects they have and package them with other assets to land a better caliber of player (or two). Even if all the picks pan out, they can't all fit on the roster (and statistically, they're not all going to pan out anyway).

How do we know Yzerman isn't or hasn't tried already? Takes two to tango and he can't force anything. Yzerman is tight lipped so for us fans that can be annoying as we never hear much from Detroit with regards to trades, which is why the Hronek one was so surprising. In other markets and other GMs, the Hronek trade would have been known about 2-3 days before it happened.

 

[jkutswings]

How do we know Yzerman isn't or hasn't tried already? Takes two to tango and he can't force anything. Yzerman is tight lipped so for us fans that can be annoying as we never hear much from Detroit with regards to trades, which is why the Hronek one was so surprising. In other markets and other GMs, the Hronek trade would have been known about 2-3 days before it happened.

We do not know. But what truly matters isn't whether he has attempted it once or twice or a hundred times. It's whether he's gotten it done.

You're free to define your own entertainment as you see fit. Just as I am with mine. I think it's perfectly fair to raise my expectations for this regime at this time. Feel free to agree to disagree.

 

[Snuggs]

What is so good about Jack Eichel? Honest question? He is at under a pt a game for his whole career, and puts up similar pts with less defence to Larkin. He also gets hurt a fair bit as well. He has 66 pts this year, Larkin has 65, and they both missed games, Larkin is also much better in the faceoff dot. Last season he was 1 pt under a pt a game just like Larkin. He costs 2 mil more a season and would have cost quite a bit to get without much better performance.

I get wanting good players, but why Eichel?

You complained that Yzerman only got DeBrincat because he only wanted Detroit, then are complaining we didn't get another good player that only got traded because he wanted out of where he was.


Every Wing fan, myself included wants us to be further along than we are, but reality is there is only so many good young players that are even available. Add to that, that players all have preferences on where they want to play and Detroit is just one of 32 teams players will want to go, meaning most don't want to come here, when we aren't winning. Also need to remember that Yzerman is known for being tight lipped, meaning just because you didn't hear any rumours, doesn't mean that Yzerman hasn't gone big game hunting. We didn't know about the Hronek trade until it happened, there could easily be other attempts that just didn't go through.

Doesn't have to be Jack Eichel, he was just an example cause you said no one's ever avaiable, which I sort of agree with but he was and is my shining example of a young player available with Franshise potential that, idk, we just kinda sniffed at alike a bad smell yet... we're looking for the player then, now, and still will be. If you don't like Eichel, fine but quit hanging on a name though. It's the overall point, find someone as good better or at least a 1st line quality center if you don't like Eichel persronally.

Also, idk, watch the guy. He's really good, it'd be tough watching him a couple games and saying that guys not that good. You'll decide quick for yourself if he's good or not.

Yzerman's tight lipped, but at times, things happen and other parties are involved. Wild fire was all over the Kane/Debrincat rumors... even the " no trade rumor " at the TDL this year was prevalent. He's not as tight lipped as it seems...

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Doesn't have to be Jack Eichel, he was just an example cause you said no one's ever avaiable, which I sort of agree with but he was and is my shining example of a young player available with Franshise potential that, idk, we just kinda sniffed at alike a bad smell yet... we're looking for the player then, now, and still will be. If you don't like Eichel, fine but quit hanging on a name though. It's the overall point, find someone as good better or at least a 1st line quality center if you don't like Eichel persronally.

Also, idk, watch the guy. He's really good, it'd be tough watching him a couple games and saying that guys not that good. You'll decide quick for yourself if he's good or not.

Yzerman's tight lipped, but at times, things happen and other parties are involved. Wild fire was all over the Kane/Debrincat rumors... even the " no trade rumor " at the TDL this year was prevalent. He's not as tight lipped as it seems...

It's not that Eichel isn't a good player. It's undeniable that he is. But he isn't MacKinnon or McDavid. Eichel, especially post ADR Eichel, is basically Dylan Larkin making 10M instead of 8.7 million.

Eichel was available because he had a pretty bad herniated disc and was digging his feet in for a specific type of surgery with NO histroy of prognosis. It's worked out and he's back and playing well for VGK. But there was nothing to signal this was the case and all sorts of worry that it would go the other way.

It wasn't that I or anyone else hated Eichel, just that he was available at a still quite high price with major red flags.

I'm thinking that this offseason will be the start of big game fishing for Yzerman. The minors have an abundance of young talent and the Wings do not have an NHL roster full of junk that they need to wait out their contracts like they did a couple years ago. I know Copp and Compher will be brought up as that... but they're effective players when they can be used correctly and are not wildly overpaid for what they bring.

We do not know. But what truly matters isn't whether he has attempted it once or twice or a hundred times. It's whether he's gotten it done.

You're free to define your own entertainment as you see fit. Just as I am with mine. I think it's perfectly fair to raise my expectations for this regime at this time. Feel free to agree to disagree.

I'll be wildly disappointed if we walk into next season with the prospect of the same exact roster and spots given to Czarnik, Aston-Reese, etc. I think they're at a solid spot where they have a bunch of youth seemingly progressing well that they can either let the vets they have walk OR package some of the youth into better current players. Not unlimited cash or anything... but flexibility to go after whatever fish they want.

 

[Gniwder]

This team needs another Larkin level center at Larkin price, that's why I wanted Horvat. I don't think the team needs an elite player like MacKinnon, McDavid, or McPornstache.

The team also needs bottom 6 grit, a replacement for Holl, and a goalie. I doubt any of that gets done this summer.

 

[Henkka]

It's interesting how good Red Wings have been inside Division games.

They have 3rd most points in division games, and still 1 game left.

Also, Atlantic is the strongest team in NHL

1. Eastern Conference 0.564 (points perfentage)
2. Western Congerence 0.539

1. Atlantic Division 0.570
2. Central Division 0.560
3. Metropolitan Div 0.558
4. Pacific Division 0.518

Atlantic Division vs. Atlantic records
-----------------
Boston 39 points
Florida 36 points
Detroit 32 points
Ottawa 30 points
Tampa 27 points
Buffalo 25 points
Toronto 25 points
Montreal 17 points

So from the strongest Conference, from strongest Division, as being 3rd best on Divisional games - this team will deserve a playoff spot.

 

[Snuggs]

Remind me where we got ASP from.

Oh... HOF ballot like Kasper already.

 

[EXTRAS]

Seasons over. Gets seider under contract soon.