Despite major challanges, Kyle Dubas has passed the tests

[Leaf Fans]

After reading the OP again, it dawned on me that he has passed his apprenticeship.

What apprenticeship was the OP doing?

 

[Nineteen67]

What apprenticeship was the OP doing?

I don’t know. You’d have to ask him.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I don’t know. You’d have to ask him.

Ok. But you know he passed it.

 

[Nineteen67]

Ok. But you know he passed it.

FYI in this case OP equalled “original post“.

 

[justashadowof]

Stealthily walking away after making the original post:

 

[ACC1224]

After reading the OP again, it dawned on me that he has passed his apprenticeship.

Baby steps

 

[kb]

GMs don't play the games.

The 20-21 Leafs lost to Montreal because Matthews and Marner didn't show up and Tavares got injured despite getting multipoint games from Nylander, Kerfoot, Galchenyuk, Kerfoot and Spezza and Jack Campbell having better stats that series than Carey Price? What should have Dubas done?

The 21-22 Leafs lost because of a called back goal in Game 7 and Tampa's minimum wage players outperformed our minimum wage players. Outside of Game 4, our depth didn't score. But the core 5 accounted for every single point in the final 3 games. What should Dubas have done?

Thank you for being one of the only ones in here to actually use reason and logic.

 

[ACC1224]

I guess he hasn't passed "the tests" in Shanahans mind.

Lame Duck is not a good thing, IMO.

 

[supermann_98]

I guess he hasn't passed "the tests" in Shanahans mind.

Lame Duck is not a good thing, IMO.

Definitely not a good thing, especially since his desperation for a goalie has already shown he's willing to cave in to another GM, despite the other GM having little to no leverage.

It's troubling to know the GM could trade a 1st or a top prospect to save his own job, or attempt to save his job. People who say "Dubas wouldn't do that" ... I don't think they understand the depths some people would take for self preservation.

Maybe he's got one more do-over after this year if they fail in the 1st round again. Maybe he gets to retool by trading a core piece, maybe he gets to fire his "future legend coach" and gets a Mulligan on the coaching selection, but a lame duck GM can be a lot more dangerous than a lame duck coach

 

[andora]

Definitely not a good thing, especially since his desperation for a goalie has already shown he's willing to cave in to another GM, despite the other GM having little to no leverage.

It's troubling to know the GM could trade a 1st or a top prospect to save his own job, or attempt to save his job. People who say "Dubas wouldn't do that" ... I don't think they understand the depths some people would take for self preservation.

Maybe he's got one more do-over after this year if they fail in the 1st round again. Maybe he gets to retool by trading a core piece, maybe he gets to fire his "future legend coach" and gets a Mulligan on the coaching selection, but a lame duck GM can be a lot more dangerous than a lame duck coach

On the flip side personally i dont see him making moves to save his job as the intention.. i believe he will make a move to improve the team if said move becomes available

I am definitely on the level with regards to dubas.. and i believe he is smart enough to understand that if the team succeeds he can keep building, and the intent is team succeeding before allowing my job depends on this creeping into a trade negotiation

Could be wrong.. but i would bet on not

 

[notbias]

Definitely not a good thing, especially since his desperation for a goalie has already shown he's willing to cave in to another GM, despite the other GM having little to no leverage.

It's troubling to know the GM could trade a 1st or a top prospect to save his own job, or attempt to save his job. People who say "Dubas wouldn't do that" ... I don't think they understand the depths some people would take for self preservation.

Maybe he's got one more do-over after this year if they fail in the 1st round again. Maybe he gets to retool by trading a core piece, maybe he gets to fire his "future legend coach" and gets a Mulligan on the coaching selection, but a lame duck GM can be a lot more dangerous than a lame duck coach

I don't think he will mortgage the future like a lot of GMs do (Florida) in hopes of winning a round or saving himself, especially since I am sure he'd be hired again quickly since owners aren't as dumb as our fanbase and understand that building a great team and winning involves a lot of luck too.

 

[ACC1224]

On the flip side personally i dont see him making moves to save his job as the intention.. i believe he will make a move to improve the team if said move becomes available

I am definitely on the level with regards to dubas.. and i believe he is smart enough to understand that if the team succeeds he can keep building, and the intent is team succeeding before allowing my job depends on this creeping into a trade negotiation

Could be wrong.. but i would bet on not

The maxed out cap will prevent him from adding any big fish anyway.

 

[andora]

The maxed out cap will prevent him from adding any big fish anyway.

We dont need big fish though

 

[Havoc]

I don't think he will mortgage the future like a lot of GMs do (Florida) in hopes of winning a round or saving himself, especially since I am sure he'd be hired again quickly since owners aren't as dumb as our fanbase and understand that building a great team and winning involves a lot of luck too.

Impossible for him to mortgage the team to save himself anyways. Trade has to be approved by the suits above him before it goes through. If Shanahan has him on an assessment year, every trade will be scrutinized even more than normal.

 

[notbias]

Impossible for him to mortgage the team to save himself anyways. Trade has to be approved by the suits above him before it goes through. If Shanahan has him on an assessment year, every trade will be scrutinized even more than normal.

The suits allowed Lou to make some terrible decisions (Marleau's contract being probably the worst), don't see why they wouldn't allow Dubas to make trades too.

 

[ACC1224]

We dont need big fish though

Perhaps they do to get past the first round

 

[Havoc]

The suits allowed Lou to make some terrible decisions (Marleau's contract being probably the worst), don't see why they wouldn't allow Dubas to make trades too.

Agreed, all parties involved were in on that Marleau move, but I can't see anything happening that falls within a zero doubt category of mortgaging the future to save himself type of move. Obviously any move made itself will be either a good one or a bad one.

Edit: For the record, saying this just to draw lines in the sand from now if it does happen, I dont classify a Patrick Kane trade that doesn't involve the big 3 as mortgaging the future. If Dubas figured out how to bring in Kane without touching the core and using only prospects and picks, he will gain a new soldier to defend him in me. Kane is the biggest fish this season so naturally will be tied to Dubas being on a judgement year.

 

[andora]

Perhaps they do to get past the first round

I dont think stylistically in how dubas runs things the point of the acquisition would not be exclusive to the first round but more so long game 4 series effective presence

 

[notbias]

Agreed, all parties involved were in on that Marleau move, but I can't see anything happening that falls within a zero doubt category of mortgaging the future to save himself type of move. Obviously any move made itself will be either a good one or a bad one.

I more just mean I can't see him giving up something like 2x1st, 3rd, 4th, Robertson for Chiarot and Giroux kind of deal.

To me, that is not something that the suits would stop from happening, but it is certainly a steep price to pay and looks like a move where you are trying to save yourself.

I think there will be minor adds unless there is a good deal to be made, we somehow get some huge LTIR space and the player will be back for the playoffs, or a specific need has to be addressed.

 

[justashadowof]

Impossible for him to mortgage the team to save himself anyways. Trade has to be approved by the suits above him before it goes through. If Shanahan has him on an assessment year, every trade will be scrutinized even more than normal.

I don't agree. Of course he can make any trade with the end of winning in the playoffs. He's got 2 key forwards who are free agents in 2 years and the other 2 in 3 years. It's win now for this team. Who knows which of the big 4 will remain in the organization after 3 years? One thing's for sure, not all 4 of them.

How exactly is he going to "mortgage the future" of this team? Robertson, Knies and the rest of the prospect base aren't future superstars in all likelihood. Being future NHL talent is very different from being future generational talent. The team has its generational talent, in its prime, on the roster right now. They need the best possible support not summer bargain buys and secondary talent that's 80% of what the team needs to win now.

Furthermore we need to wrap our heads around the concept that the franchise is NOT in a privileged position financially. They have to pay premiums on their star talent relative to the likes of Colorado, Tampa Bay, Florida and several other NHL cities. The Leafs will never afford depth of lineup without developing impact talent on ELCs (hasn't happened in several seasons) or acquiring cap-retained rentals that cost future assets.

 

[Stephen]

New school year, new tests and new thread:

Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

https://theathletic.com/3602879/2022/09/19/kyle-dubas-maple-leafs-job/ Kyle Dubas will soon become the Maple Leafs’ longest-serving general manager in 25 years. The upcoming 2022-23 season will be Dubas’ fifth as Leafs GM, a run that outlasts Brian Burke, Pat Quinn and every other predecessor...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Havoc]

I don't agree. Of course he can make any trade with the end of winning in the playoffs. He's got 2 key forwards who are free agents in 2 years and the other 2 in 3 years. It's win now for this team. Who knows which of the big 4 will remain in the organization after 3 years? One thing's for sure, not all 4 of them.

How exactly is he going to "mortgage the future" of this team? Robertson, Knies and the rest of the prospect base aren't future superstars in all likelihood. Being future NHL talent is very different from being future generational talent. The team has its generational talent, in its prime, on the roster right now. They need the best possible support not summer bargain buys and secondary talent that's 80% of what the team needs to win now.

Well this gets a bit complicated now. We need to know what the actual trade is first before we classify it.

Leafs are top contenders and top contenders should definitely put the final stamp on their roster if it's a move that truly makes them the clear cut favorites. If Robertson and Knies brought in that player then they need to go because one more superstar / star to go with this core is the best chance we'll ever have in our current window and needs to be pursued. Sacrificing those odds for non star prospects is not a good idea. I don't see them as prospects we can't replace and re-develop.

If we're doing dumb stuff like trading Robertson for a one year Foligno type rental then all hell will break loose here and entire house needs to be cleaned including Shanahan.