Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
- Jan 29, 2004
- 34,312
- 19,389
The whole contentious point is that the Pens rated Pouliot much higher than scouting services and a cross section of actual NHL scouts did.
Saying "but he was higher on the Pens list" is absurd. Of course he was, because that's what people are questioning.
Thinking org go by public lists is the only absurd notion here. Many of the scouts and former GMs who make these lists have had more than their fair share of mistakes.
The Pens brass have shown an eye for plucking and developing blueline talent, yet you want to put more stock in entertainment lists, that look little like true internal org rankings.
It's so silly that I can't believe you are still trying to defend it.
All it takes is one team. If Grigorenko or Forsberg become a superstar and Lindholm develops well short of that, their scouting staffs should be taken to task too.
Or 30 different lists. Hence the reasons many players were not taken in their projected slots.
Even the public rankings had no real consensus after the first 4-5 picks.
Grigs and FP threw up enough red flags to other org, besides the Pens. You continue to ignore that.
That's not the point. The circular logic being used here would justify the selection if they had. That's the point.
Of course it is the point. Just because you want to use some extreme argument to make your case, doesn't make it logical.
I can say that teams shouldn't bother investing millions of dollars into scouting, when they can just use these public rankings when making their selections.
This has as much logic behind it as your silly, extreme argument.
I've had a little trouble lately figuring out whether you're making veiled references to me or referring to other posters in your responses to my posts. Either way, I'll just clarify for posterity that I've never said Pouliot is a disappointment, and I only believe he's a bad pick in the sense that there were better options available. He's still a very good prospect.
You got defensive about me pointing a finger at you, when I never did. In fact, if I recall correctly, you referenced a post I made to someone else and got defensive about it.
What Pouliot's doing so far this season is nice, but nothing you wouldn't expect from a small, relatively one-dimensional offensive defenseman drafted in the latter half of the 1st round, playing on a powerhouse team.
Because he can't be a part of their reason for success, right? As I have already said multiple times, the W is the hardest Jr league to score in, yet he is hovering around a point a game and playing quite sound in his own end. And once again, you will be hard pressed to find any successful blueliners in the NHL that tore up the W.
It... Doesn't...Happen. The league is too defensive, too physical.
From what I recall, my stance was that the Pens had difficulty producing homegrown scoring line forwards because they didn't make drafting forwards a priority early in the draft. I don't see how any argument I'm making here contradicts that.
Are you sure about that?
Re-read what I wrote. That passage had nothing to do with whether Pouliot was a gamebreaking talent or not.
I re-read it several times and the context is the same each time. No matter how you want to spin it, the Pens grabbed the kind of gamebreaking talent that they won't have the opportunity to do again, for quite sometime.
My "deal" is that the Pens scouting staff is not infallible. They went off the board with the most important pick this team will likely have for the rest of the Crosby/Malkin era, so if they're wrong, it should call into question how they evaluate and prioritize talent when determining their BPA.
And if they picked Grigs and he busted, while DP became a star? What then? You only want to look at one side of the coin.
Once again, the Pens have an eye for blueline talent, and they know how to develop them. I'll trust the people with a track record over those making lists for pure entertainment value only.
Personally, I think their predilection for acquiring defensemen and stocking up on players from familiar programs might be symptomatic of a little tunnel vision.
Possible and I argued that very thing last year at this time. However, things change.
I saw a chance before the draft to build one of the best blueline farms if someone slipped. Little did I know Shero would build THE best blueline farm around after all was said and done. With Tangradi and BB showing promise, I'm quite content with what Shero has done.
In case you and others haven't noticed, their blueline was a mess in the playoffs. So having all of this blueline talent in the pipe and two good winger prospects, should make people happy.
But some people like to complain I suppose.
Forgetting for the moment that this has absolutely no bearing on the merit of the argument itself, if by some chance I had enough time to strike up an actual conversation with Shero, yeah, I'd like to ask him about why his staff chose Pouliot over more high profile players, particularly when the pipeline was already stocked.
The way you were framing it, I imagined a "gotcha journalism" type ambush.
You moved the goalposts, as I said. My original point was that people wouldn't be stupid enough to tell Shero DP was a bad pick and he is a disappointment this year.
I questioned the Maatta pick with Frk and Aberg still on the board, but never once called him a bad pick.
Once again, there is a difference between questioning the pick and flat out saying its a bad pick. DP is a bad pick based on what evidence?
To be honest, I'm not sure why rumours about one other team's draft order should hold more merit than the factual cross-section of actual NHL scouts, never mind how we've seen first hand that a team's pipeline strengths can have little to no effect on their draft preferences.
What "factual" evidence are you claiming here? Bmac polled a small percentage of scouts, all of whom aren't stupid enough to give true org rankings. It's comical people don't understand these scouts will never give out true rankings. How many times do I have to explain that?
This is why a number of guys jumped or fell in the draft, including the two I wanted.
And some teams draft for need, while others go BPA. From what I read, Buffalo really liked DP and MY opinion is they would have taken him.
There's also the matter of IHWR's anecdote. I know you value his opinion on prospects, and in his experience, another group of NHL scouts was straight-up laughing at the pick back at their hotel. Food for thought.
I read a number of scouting services that instantly labeled Goose a "huge reach" while deeming Barker a "can't miss prospect".
How did that work out?