Confirmed with Link: demelo 4 years 12 Million

[JetsUK]

Hamonic was the 115th ranked defenseman in Hits/60 last season. 39 hits in 50 games, putting him behind well known NHL bruisers Ron Hainsey, Jake Gardiner and Cale Makar. If you're looking for grit, Hamonic's probably not your guy.

BTW: The Jets own Anthony Bitetto was 3rd in the league in Hits/60, so if you want grit, look no further.

Anthony Gritetto FTW!

I expect Beaulieu to be signed, wonder about Sbisa think no on Bitts even as deep depth.

 

[10Ducky10]

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At "equal pay" I'd choose either Myers or Chiarot over Demelo. We need scoring from our back end IMO.

Could be I have underestimated Demelo ? and will have to watch him more closely, especially on his efficiency in the defensive zone. Posters here, seem very impressed by his play--- "good to see."

I can see a lot of support here for this signing of Demelo, that tell me a lot of informed posters on here, think he's really solid. Maybe I've sold him a bit short here.

Kind of early to be drinking isn't it?

 

[garret9]

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Your very good at what you do Garret, but you have to admit, there's a reason why Connor McDavid is the highest paid player in the NHL - or one of them) -- so what a player get's paid, is generally commensurate with his talent level - "in most cases."

Garret: What I used to do is work for a player agency to get player's more money than they are worth.
Also Garret: What I now do is work to get a player's true impact on the team to exploit how poorly players are paid.
Also, also Garret: Given what I know with what I do Myers vs DeMelo is a good example of how the market sometimes inappropriately compensates players and how much a player gets paid isn't a good way to evaluate a player's true worth.

GNP: Garret you are good at what you do...


Ya McDavid is highest player in the game. He is also statistically worth 20.5 wins above replacement since he's entered the league. That's the highest value. Other top guys in the same time frame: Stone, Marchand, Couturier, Hedman, MacKinnon, Kucherov, Bergeron, Panarin, O'Reilly, Ellis, Point, Pasternak, Draisaitl, Scheifele, Barkov, Spurgeon, Parayko, Crosby, etc...

A player's value and how the market pays for players is correlated, but it is faaaar from the same. Partially because there is more factors to how much a player is paid than just how good they are perceived. Partially because GMs make mistakes all the time in how much they should perceive how good a player is.


You say I'm good at what I do, but literately the most common thing I do (at pro level) is point out players who are better or worse than what their contract is.

Is DeMelo amazing? No. He's a middle of the road defender. Average ish, maybe a bit better. He moves the puck well enough, can break plays, and has a very low "true" turnover rate (not the NHL.com garbage). You won't expect these guys to stand out.

But the Jets have rarely had good middle of the road guys. They've tended to have really high end talent (Morrissey, Trouba, Buff, Enstrom), passable depth (Chiarot, Poolman), or garbage (Stuart, Kulikov, Myers, Strait, Morrow, etc).

 

[voyageur]

Garret: What I used to do is work for a player agency to get player's more money than they are worth.
Also Garret: What I now do is work to get a player's true impact on the team to exploit how poorly players are paid.
Also, also Garret: Given what I know with what I do Myers vs DeMelo is a good example of how the market sometimes inappropriately compensates players and how much a player gets paid isn't a good way to evaluate a player's true worth.

GNP: Garret you are good at what you do...


Ya McDavid is highest player in the game. He is also statistically worth 20.5 wins above replacement since he's entered the league. That's the highest value. Other top guys in the same time frame: Stone, Marchand, Couturier, Hedman, MacKinnon, Kucherov, Bergeron, Panarin, O'Reilly, Ellis, Point, Pasternak, Draisaitl, Scheifele, Barkov, Spurgeon, Parayko, Crosby, etc...

A player's value and how the market pays for players is correlated, but it is faaaar from the same. Partially because there is more factors to how much a player is paid than just how good they are perceived. Partially because GMs make mistakes all the time in how much they should perceive how good a player is.


You say I'm good at what I do, but literately the most common thing I do (at pro level) is point out players who are better or worse than what their contract is.

Is DeMelo amazing? No. He's a middle of the road defender. Average ish, maybe a bit better. He moves the puck well enough, can break plays, and has a very low "true" turnover rate (not the NHL.com garbage). You won't expect these guys to stand out.

But the Jets have rarely had good middle of the road guys. They've tended to have really high end talent (Morrissey, Trouba, Buff, Enstrom), passable depth (Chiarot, Poolman), or garbage (Stuart, Kulikov, Myers, Strait, Morrow, etc).

I'm not sure you can call Enstrom high end talent and Myers garbage, especially when you consider the playoff contributions between the 2.

 

[garret9]

I'm not sure you can call Enstrom high end talent and Myers garbage, especially when you consider the playoff contributions between the 2.

Enstrom's worth since 2007: 59 goals more than replacement level, or 11 wins
Myer's worth since 2007 (or 09 really): 9 goals more than replacement level, or 1.5 wins

 

[voyageur]

Enstrom's worth since 2007: 59 goals more than replacement level, or 11 wins
Myer's worth since 2007 (or 09 really): 9 goals more than replacement level, or 1.5 wins

Enstrom wasn't a Jet in 2007. And he was carried by Buff for the greater part of his stay here. Myers/Enstrom made a decent pairing in our first playoff year. Then as Trouba rose, Myers played with Chiarot, Morrow, Kulikov. Hard to measure them as the same quality. And Enstrom has a big 0 beside his name in the playoffs, whereas Myers put up some important points in our run. Which started without Toby, in round 1. I'd say during their respective time in Winnipeg Myers was probably more of an impact player. Simply played on the loaded side. That said, we moved on at the right time.

 

[garret9]

Enstrom wasn't a Jet in 2007. And he was carried by Buff for the greater part of his stay here. Myers/Enstrom made a decent pairing in our first playoff year. Then as Trouba rose, Myers played with Chiarot, Morrow, Kulikov. Hard to measure them as the same quality. And Enstrom has a big 0 beside his name in the playoffs, whereas Myers put up some important points in our run. Which started without Toby, in round 1. I'd say during their respective time in Winnipeg Myers was probably more of an impact player. Simply played on the loaded side. That said, we moved on at the right time.

1) GAR excludes the impact of others
2) We're talking about a 10x value player swing THAT"S HUGE
3) Enstrom was still a player in 2007, if you want to exclude the pre-Jets 2.0 years the comparison looks even worse

 

[voyageur]

1) GAR excludes the impact of others
2) We're talking about a 10x value player swing THAT"S HUGE
3) Enstrom was still a player in 2007, if you want to exclude the pre-Jets 2.0 years the comparison looks even worse

Well you are talking about Jets, and then throwing random stats from 2007, when neither Myers or Enstrom were Jets.

I'm saying we won a playoff round without Enstrom, in fact we used Joe Morrow, who has more career playoff points than Enstrom as a Jet. When Myers went out with injury, we missed the playoffs. There's other ways to measure impact. Some statistics are spurious, and some events are spurious, that would be my conclusion.

PS Welcome back Garret.

 

[garret9]

Well you are talking about Jets, and then throwing random stats from 2007, when neither Myers or Enstrom were Jets.

I'm saying we won a playoff round without Enstrom, in fact we used Joe Morrow, who has more career playoff points than Enstrom as a Jet. When Myers went out with injury, we missed the playoffs. There's other ways to measure impact. Some statistics are spurious, and some events are spurious, that would be my conclusion.

PS Welcome back Garret.

Ironic you use team success in small samples in a sport where the good team wins about 60% of the time to evaluate an individual and then have the guts to say some stats are spurious lol

As a Jet:
Enstrom worth 33 goals or 6 wins
Myers worth -2 goals or 0 wins
This ain't even close and equivalent to saying Jokinen was more valuable than Little

 

[voyageur]

Ironic you use team success in small samples in a sport where the good team wins about 60% of the time to evaluate an individual and then have the guts to say some stats are spurious lol

Ironic that you use statistics as a conclusion, but deny results, including playoff results, as a matter of measuring success.

 

[garret9]

Ironic that you use statistics as a conclusion, but deny results, including playoff results, as a matter of measuring success.

I don't deny results. I isolate the individual's impact on those wins and losses.

I mean PIT has a better win% with Crosby injured. He must be below average. Deny those results el oh el

 

[voyageur]

I don't deny results. I isolate the individual's impact on those wins and losses.

I mean PIT has a better win% with Crosby injured. He must be below average. Deny those results el oh el

That's a weak and failed argument dude. It's grasping.

Myers was an impact player for us. Seriously, we made the playoffs every year he was healthy for us. He outscored Toby in the playoffs, including helping us to our first series win, and the comeback against Nashville, while Toby was getting outskated regularly. You've always had a special love for Toby, since day 1. So I know you will come up with something random statistically to prove your point. Stats guys can manipulate numbers to form their own truths.

I'd say we got more value out of Myers than Toby in their respective times here, more playoff appearances because of the former, and that's a value that True North cashed in on. But one man's trash is another's team treasure.

 

[GNP]

Kind of early to be drinking isn't it?

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I would take Chiarot over Demelo all day long -- drunk or sober. He does play on Montreal's 1st line I'm told, has a boomer of a shot, and is a very physical defenseman, which is exactly what the Jet's need. You may like Demelo, but he's just an average "fill in" type of defenseman, which is OK for the Jets right now.

 

[objectiveposter]

this signing just shows how desperate the jets are for defenseman. imagine someone in 2019 telling you the jets would sign some mediocre dman to a long term deal you would shrug your shoulders considering how dynamic the defence was that season. Now its a big celebration apparently. Jets still need a top 4 dman...if chevy lands that guy in free agency I think jets might be able to get away with it if helle plays great and doesnt regress again like he did after 2018 season. But if chevy strikes out and demelo is the big signing the jets are in trouble next season.

 

[MardyBum]

Why are we talking about shitty NHL dman Tyler Myers lol.

This is a good signing, he's an above average NHL dman and these are his prime years.

He's not a top pairing dman but he is what we need, good NHL level dmen.

 

[NotCommitted]

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I would take Chiarot over Demelo all day long -- drunk or sober. He does play on Montreal's 1st line I'm told, has a boomer of a shot, and is a very physical defenseman, which is exactly what the Jet's need. You may like Demelo, but he's just an average "fill in" type of defenseman, which is OK for the Jets right now.

Chiarot being a 1st pairing D-man in Montreal might tell more about Montreal than about Chiarot. I dunno, I would prefer DeMelo, he just seems the overall more solid guy, but in all honesty they seem pretty similar. Chiarot career high 21 points, DeMelo 22 points. About the same age, ideally they'd both be in your bottom pairing or 2nd pairing at most. I haven't dug into their numbers, but I have a feeling DeMelo would have better underlying stats and is the smarter hockey player, while Chiarot is more physical. I guess Chiarot by the end of his stay at WPG was OK, or maybe I just got used to his boneheaded plays, but I prefer DeMelo.

In any case, I think this was a solid signing, it's not some magic bullet, but with DeMelo the Jets D at least looked like an actual NHL defence, if not a great one at that. Depending how the D shapes up, ideally I'd like to see DeMelo maybe with Poink, or if the Jets finally give Niku a chance, DeMelo could be a solid guy to root the pairing. Or with Heinola or some other young D-man. He just seemed like a solid, smart, defence first kind of guy who also can make a first pass. Personally, in a D-man I value that way higher than the occasional offensive flare (actually good offensive D-men are a different case) or physicality.

 

[GNP]

Chiarot being a 1st pairing D-man in Montreal might tell more about Montreal than about Chiarot. I dunno, I would prefer DeMelo, he just seems the overall more solid guy, but in all honesty they seem pretty similar. Chiarot career high 21 points, DeMelo 22 points. About the same age, ideally they'd both be in your bottom pairing or 2nd pairing at most. I haven't dug into their numbers, but I have a feeling DeMelo would have better underlying stats and is the smarter hockey player, while Chiarot is more physical. I guess Chiarot by the end of his stay at WPG was OK, or maybe I just got used to his boneheaded plays, but I prefer DeMelo.

In any case, I think this was a solid signing, it's not some magic bullet, but with DeMelo the Jets D at least looked like an actual NHL defence, if not a great one at that. Depending how the D shapes up, ideally I'd like to see DeMelo maybe with Poink, or if the Jets finally give Niku a chance, DeMelo could be a solid guy to root the pairing. Or with Heinola or some other young D-man. He just seemed like a solid, smart, defence first kind of guy who also can make a first pass. Personally, in a D-man I value that way higher than the occasional offensive flare (actually good offensive D-men are a different case) or physicality.

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Good post NotCommitted -- I'll have to watch Demelo more closely, as you don't notice a guy like that much, because he mostly works his magic in the defensive zone, and I'm more apt to notice more offensive type of defenseman. I'll have to give him a good look this upcoming season, but if he scored 22 points as you say, that's not to bad at all, considering he's great in the defensive zone.

 

[Weezeric]

If Demelo ends up playing with Morrissey for the season I could see him ~30 points with no powerplay time. That’s pretty decent.

 

[GNP]

this signing just shows how desperate the jets are for defenseman. imagine someone in 2019 telling you the jets would sign some mediocre dman to a long term deal you would shrug your shoulders considering how dynamic the defence was that season. Now its a big celebration apparently. Jets still need a top 4 dman...if chevy lands that guy in free agency I think jets might be able to get away with it if helle plays great and doesnt regress again like he did after 2018 season. But if chevy strikes out and demelo is the big signing the jets are in trouble next season.

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We always need the straight forward voice of the Objective Poster on here, to tell us all, the way things are.

 

[kanadalainen]

... both wanted $ 3 mil to sign -- it be Myers... ( me included and most GM's )

Who dat? Chevy?

 

[kanadalainen]

Yes. DeMelo *is* worth more than Myers.

Data!! Like a longsword through the gyttja of mumbled conjecture, 24/7/365.

 

[surixon]

Ironic you use team success in small samples in a sport where the good team wins about 60% of the time to evaluate an individual and then have the guts to say some stats are spurious lol

As a Jet:
Enstrom worth 33 goals or 6 wins
Myers worth -2 goals or 0 wins
This ain't even close and equivalent to saying Jokinen was more valuable than Little

Enstrom was incredibly underappreciated for what he brought to the table. I think people saw his offense dry up and thought he didn't contribute, but morphed into an elite defensive dmen which was the perfect foil for Buff.

 

[googleIsMyFriend]

Good deal! Next season is starting to look surprisingly good.

 

[10Ducky10]

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I would take Chiarot over Demelo all day long -- drunk or sober. He does play on Montreal's 1st line I'm told, has a boomer of a shot, and is a very physical defenseman, which is exactly what the Jet's need. You may like Demelo, but he's just an average "fill in" type of defenseman, which is OK for the Jets right now.

Chiarot is a liability in his own end. So was Myers. Myers was great in the O zone. Chiarot is not. Chiarot is overpaid like a lot of Habs.
DeMelo is not a liabilty in his own zone.

If we were winning a game by one goal, DeMelo would be one of the guys I would want on the ice to protect the lead. Chiarot would be one of my last choices.

If we were losing a game by one goal, I would much rather have DeMelo on the ice than Chiarot. Chiarot, again, would be one of my last choices.

Neither are going to rack up big numbers but DeMelo is a far superior defender and a much smarter player than Chiarot is.

 

[Zeroghost]

skill, ability, and common sense have no place in these discussions sir.

Chiapet will lumber his way wildly out of position in a futile attempt to hit someone into submission.

Therefore he is superior in every conceivable way.

Facts are facts.