LV Review-Journal: DeBoer fired, and Spott

[BKIslandersFan]

I'm honestly surprised Foley waited to see if they would make the playoffs.

They REALLY should have fired him back in February.

Enough examples of coaching change turning teams around.

 

[LadyStanley]

Official statement


Paywall. Next?



Or go back and watch

 

[hackeyman]

Turks firing was a bit premature, I was prepared to give him more time to right the ship. But the team was at the end playing if I'm going to be honest, more garbage than the they did under Deboer, and at press conferences he talked about how great we played. I don't believe this teams mistake was firing Gallant, (I personally don't think he would have righted the ship) the mistake was replacing him Deboer.

Remember there were injuries and in hindsight serious problems with MAF (emotional mental health over his father's failing health) and Turk was already righting the ship once the injured players returned . In fact if you have forgotten it seemed like they were rushing the process as the team was on a mostly winning streak . They had their minds made up and I would say secret dealings with Deboer and it was going to be a problem as the team kept winning with Turk . So I would say the ship was righted.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Remember there were injuries and in hindsight serious problems with MAF (emotional mental health over his father's failing health) and Turk was already righting the ship once the injured players returned . In fact if you have forgotten it seemed like they were rushing the process as the team was on a mostly winning streak . They had their minds made up and I would say secret dealings with Deboer and it was going to be a problem as the team kept winning with Turk . So I would say the ship was righted.

Four straight losses to Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Columbus and Buffalo, being outscored 16-7 while also giving up 4 or more goals in 8 of his final 12 games and you say the ship was righted!?!

And mentioning injuries as a point for Gallant when we have never had injuries close to what we did this season?

Not to mention the season prior under Gallant where we did exactly as well (or poorly, as it's phrased now) that season as under DeBoer this season, 94 points.

Vegas fans are cheering this move and still saying Gallant got done wrong when Gallant got a much longer leash than DeBoer did.

 

[hangman005]

Probably the two most relevant historic threads, just to refresh things.

The first, Turks last game.

Speculation: - Game 48: Vegas Rusty Knights @ Buffalo Wings | 4:00PM | The Schedule speculates Vegas have a game.

I don't think it's time to fire Turk, but I don't have much more before I start thinking that. This team is suffering from fixable problems that have existed since last year while the rest of the league gets faster and this team somehow is getting slower and has less endurance. I mean you could...

hfboards.mandatory.com

and the Turk is fired and replaced by Deboer thread,

Confirmed with Link: - Peter DeBoer named new head coach. Gerard Gallant, & Mike Kelly out.

Vegas Golden Knights Make Coaching Changes; Name Peter DeBoer Head Coach

hfboards.mandatory.com

Remember there were injuries and in hindsight serious problems with MAF (emotional mental health over his father's failing health) and Turk was already righting the ship once the injured players returned . In fact if you have forgotten it seemed like they were rushing the process as the team was on a mostly winning streak . They had their minds made up and I would say secret dealings with Deboer and it was going to be a problem as the team kept winning with Turk . So I would say the ship was righted.

At the time that was my speculation, he hadn't been lights out to start the season but after his dad died, it definately effected him far more than was lead on. But I disagree that he was righting the ship, the fundimental issues that had plaugued as since the season before were still there, the 4 games before he was sacked were attrocious and the lack of awareness during the press confernces was baffling, I did wonder if we were watching the same game.... That said sacking Gallant was premature but still I was prepared to give him more time. I was definately less confident in things changing.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Neither guy deserved to get fired IMO. Next guy whoever that may be had better post a .700 win % and win the Cup or Kelly and George are going to be having a sword fight to keep their jobs.

 

[hangman005]

Neither guy deserved to get fired IMO. Next guy whoever that may be had better post a .700 win % and win the Cup or Kelly and George are going to be having a sword fight to keep their jobs.

Our goal is to win the cup, at the end of the day the question needs to be asked is this a coach that's going to get us there. I think @HanSolo said it on the mains he's a great coach for up and coming teams look to make the next step, but he's not a coach for contenders... which we were supposed to be. After watching us falter in the same way in the playoffs two years in a row, Debeor wasn't that coach.

That said this answer from McCrimmon is just...... wow

 

[The Duck Knight]

Our goal is to win the cup, at the end of the day the question needs to be asked is this a coach that's going to get us there. I think @HanSolo said it on the mains he's a great coach for up and coming teams look to make the next step, but he's not a coach for contenders... which we were supposed to be. After watching us falter in the same way in the playoffs two years in a row, Debeor wasn't that coach.

That said this answer from McCrimmon is just...... wow

I don't know how you can say PDB is "not a coach for contenders" with the kind of success he's had. It took Trotz 20 years as a head coach in the NHL to get to his first Conference Final. It took Quenneville 13 years to win a Cup and lots of playoff losses as heavy favorites in that stretch.

I can fully understand wanting a different style of coach because the roster doesn't fit PDB's system. Trotz is not that. Babcock is not that. Tortorella is not that.

But I'll say the same thing I said when Gallant was fired and that I've said after each season has ended. There are some obvious roster flaws that continue to be ignored. That's not a coaching issue. That's on the front office. And the fact we're now on our 3rd coach is on the front office too, but they seem like they get free passes from Foley.

 

[hangman005]

I don't know how you can say PDB is "not a coach for contenders" with the kind of success he's had. It took Trotz 20 years as a head coach in the NHL to get to his first Conference Final. It took Quenneville 13 years to win a Cup and lots of playoff losses as heavy favorites in that stretch.

I can fully understand wanting a different style of coach because the roster doesn't fit PDB's system. Trotz is not that. Babcock is not that. Tortorella is not that.

If he could adapt and change things up, sure he could get there, But I'd argue we got to conference finals these last two years in spite of Deboer not because of him. The team has too much talent, unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) all the injuries this year have taken away the talent that's masked the short comings in his game plans. Also Spott is holding him back a somewhat competent powerplay we beat Montreal last year. Being able to do any more than shots from the Premiter we beat Montreal last year and Dallas the year before.

I wasn't sold on the narrative last year that we lost because we lacked a true #1 C, probably would have been a factor vs Tampa, but we have lost two playoff series, and made another 2 look far more difficult than they should have been by playing the same style of hockey. To my mind he's a coach to elevate you to contending status, but he's not a coach that will get you over the line.

 

[forlecious commander]

Unfortunately, I think there's going to be a lot more pain in the future with Foley at the helm. He's inexperienced as a professional sports team owner and I think it's lost on him what it takes to build a winner. It takes time, and some pain points along the way. It just doesn't seem like his MO to gradually build something up.

When you consider that he had almost immediate (luck) success with this franchise in its infancy, I think he will struggle with figuring out next steps. He's going to need to learn patience, and how to step back and let the professional GMs/coaches do what they do best.

He seemed like he wanted to win very quickly and was willing to sacrifice everything. Now he has depleted their draft picks.
If Vegas misses the playoffs for a few years, will the fans still support?

 

[azvgk]

I don't know how you can say PDB is "not a coach for contenders" with the kind of success he's had. It took Trotz 20 years as a head coach in the NHL to get to his first Conference Final. It took Quenneville 13 years to win a Cup and lots of playoff losses as heavy favorites in that stretch.

I can fully understand wanting a different style of coach because the roster doesn't fit PDB's system. Trotz is not that. Babcock is not that. Tortorella is not that.

But I'll say the same thing I said when Gallant was fired and that I've said after each season has ended. There are some obvious roster flaws that continue to be ignored. That's not a coaching issue. That's on the front office. And the fact we're now on our 3rd coach is on the front office too, but they seem like they get free passes from Foley.

To be fair, in particular with Trotz, he fashioned a winning team out of a talent-thin roster in Nashville, and won the cup in just a few years with talent in Washington. And he left Washington over money, not coaching. That said, I don't think his style fits with our roster particularly well.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Our goal is to win the cup, at the end of the day the question needs to be asked is this a coach that's going to get us there. I think @HanSolo said it on the mains he's a great coach for up and coming teams look to make the next step, but he's not a coach for contenders... which we were supposed to be. After watching us falter in the same way in the playoffs two years in a row, Debeor wasn't that coach.

That said this answer from McCrimmon is just...... wow

You can not like Deboer personally, you can think he's not the right fit for our roster makeup (and you can even be right about that) but saying he can't win a Cup, or whatever HanSolo said about not being a contending teams coach is absolute bullshit.

He took two teams to within two wins of a Cup who had no business being there. He's been to the conference finals three other times. Those aren't up and coming teams results.

I'm not broken up at all about him leaving and am excited to see another coach, though tentatively with ou management, but shit, man, the disrespect he's had to endure from our fanbase is just insane.

The truth is our roster is not as good as so many of our fans seem to think. We aren't in the Colorado, Tampa, Florida, Carolina tier even totally healthy when you put the cap in consideration. We're not above the Rangers, Penguins, Blues or Flames. That 5-10 range is where we are, so losing in the conference finals hasn't been underachieving, it's just more disappointing because our opponent last year was one we should have beaten.

 

[Pirate Deadpool]

You can not like Deboer personally, you can think he's not the right fit for our roster makeup (and you can even be right about that) but saying he can't win a Cup, or whatever HanSolo said about not being a contending teams coach is absolute bullshit.

He took two teams to within two wins of a Cup who had no business being there. He's been to the conference finals three other times. Those aren't up and coming teams results.

I'm not broken up at all about him leaving and am excited to see another coach, though tentatively with ou management, but shit, man, the disrespect he's had to endure from our fanbase is just insane.

The truth is our roster is not as good as so many of our fans seem to think. We aren't in the Colorado, Tampa, Florida, Carolina tier even totally healthy when you put the cap in consideration. We're not above the Rangers, Penguins, Blues or Flames. That 5-10 range is where we are, so losing in the conference finals hasn't been underachieving, it's just more disappointing because our opponent last year was one we should have beaten.

Yeah even if Vegas' roster didn't get hit with injuries the truth is that most of this years playoff teams have at least 3 players that are far more talented than anyone on the Vegas roster.

Unless Stone reverts into the Stone that was unstoppable in Ottawa despite being the focus of every teams shutdown line, he's overpaid and under delivering his salary. He's a rock defensively, but needs to be the offensive beast that other teams once feared

 

[CupInSIX]

Going with PDB mid-season was a 'cup or bust' move. Ultimately he'll be seen as the guy who got them back to the conference finals twice - but lost two very winnable series because of a painfully weak PP.

Gallant's legacy was obviously the unprecedented year 1 cinderella run with MAF giving the best playoff performance of his career. Ultimately they lost because of a painfully weak PK & they didn't have any elite C or D (Theodore was much too young).

Lucky #3 will have some huge ??? to deal with in captain Stone's health, goaltending (depending on what they do this summer), Eichel & seeing what some of the prospects have to offer. Good luck!

I'm looking forward to a new face evaluating prospects that aren't Rondbjerg & Leschyshyn next camp.

 

[mundyc3]

I just see them picking Rick Tocchet. Just my expectation.

 

[CupInSIX]

To be fair, a shot to Crosby's head, a third string goalie and a yanked off helmet are the only reasons they did.


Wasn't our PK worse or just as bad as our PP this season? And wasn't the PP just as bad when they had him take over a short time?

I'm not sure why he should be spared if they've fired the staff. Just clean house if this is what you decided.

Craig seems to have a really good relationship with the players, dating back to him playing with Marchessault in the AHL.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Craig seems to have a really good relationship with the players, dating back to him playing with Marchessault in the AHL.

I think the bigger factor is that he played over 5 years in Brandon. Having a great relationship with the players did no good for Gallant.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Someone posted this in the comments of the Granger article regarding PDB's firing

What we know about Golden Knights' firing of Peter DeBoer

What went wrong in Vegas and what comes next? We think we have some answers.

theathletic.com

 

[LadyStanley]

Official Vegas Golden Knights Website | Vegas Golden Knights

The official National Hockey League website including news, rosters, stats, schedules, teams, and video.

www.nhl.com

Apparently McGill not relieved of duties. Just Spott (and DeBoer).

 

[MBTendy]

Stars fan here. Appears your former boss is the likely candidate for our HC position.

What’s your take on him ? Stars (as you guys have known) have been a boring defensive team that loves their dump and chases. Sounds like they’re trying to get away from that, be more balanced and give our young bucks more opportunities to succeed.

 

[CupInSIX]

Stars fan here. Appears your former boss is the likely candidate for our HC position.

What’s your take on him ? Stars (as you guys have known) have been a boring defensive team that loves their dump and chases. Sounds like they’re trying to get away from that, be more balanced and give our young bucks more opportunities to succeed.

Heiskanen and Lindell would thrive under him, as should young dmen like Harley, but I'd be worried about Deboer throwing Oettinger under the bus after a few bad starts.

If he manages to get Spott to come along with him, the power play will suffer a painful death.

 

[willy702]

Stars fan here. Appears your former boss is the likely candidate for our HC position.

What’s your take on him ? Stars (as you guys have known) have been a boring defensive team that loves their dump and chases. Sounds like they’re trying to get away from that, be more balanced and give our young bucks more opportunities to succeed.

I don't know about the fit there. Stars were so incredibly out-possessed by the Flames in the playoffs I have no idea if any of it would work. The typical nonsense that drove VGK fans up the wall would be a signature PDB game where they had a 40-20 shot advantage and lost 3-2, largely because they went 0-5 on the PP while their opponent would go 2-4 on their PP. If you do get him, brace yourselves for that. I don't see the Stars though getting 2-1 shot edges with their roster.

The basics of the PDB system are gang up on the opposition to gain puck control and throw the puck at the net whenever you can. If Pavelski is still around you might get more goals than VGK did because the Knights have a roster full of players who are allergic to getting to the dirty areas. So much opportunity for tip goals, banging home rebounds, and having pucks bounce off them and into goals, yet that so rarely happened when it mattered. Seems the Stars have better players for that so maybe you get to opening bounce he always gets and maybe finish 2nd or 3rd in the Central, but it might prove to be the team's high point.

 

[RapidKnight]

Players have a huge impact on powerplay production. It’s not necessarily the coaches’ fault if players who dominate at even strength don’t dominate on the powerplay.
VGK Powerplay

	PP%	GF/60	SH%	CF/60	xGF/60
Gallant	14th	16th	14th	9th	13th
Gallant	19th	18th	25th	1st	4th
DeBoer	21st	21st	28th	9th	7th

(w/ Pacioretty)
SJS Powerplay (post-Pavelski)

	PP%	GF/60	SH%	CF/60	xGF/60
DeBoer	23rd	23rd	27th	5th	3rd
Boughner	24th	24th	27th	17th	20th

Stars fan here. Appears your former boss is the likely candidate for our HC position.

What’s your take on him ? Stars (as you guys have known) have been a boring defensive team that loves their dump and chases. Sounds like they’re trying to get away from that, be more balanced and give our young bucks more opportunities to succeed.

I’m more optimistic that Dallas’ powerplay won’t die.